Historical Winnipeg discussion

[myuglyface]

I recall being told about numbered Avenues in Winnipeg that were changed to named Avenues at some point. I am mostly interested in where 4th Avenue N. and 10th Ave N. would have been and when the change occurred.

[JayM]

I think I recall someone telling me that numbered streets and avenues didn't last long due the fact Winnipeg streets weren't all in the grid pattern in which numbers work best.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by myuglyface

I recall being told about numbered Avenues in Winnipeg that were changed to named Avenues at some point. I am mostly interested in where 4th Avenue N. and 10th Ave N. would have been and when the change occurred.

I don't know exactly, but Notre Dame was known as Central Avenue and so perhaps 4th Avenue would have been 4 north of Notre Dame and 10th 10 north. If I recall correctly, the numbering was a bright idea of City Council and lasted for a couple of years in the early 1890s. When it failed to gain popular acceptance, the City officially returned the original names to the streets, which are the names we know them by now. It is difficult to find references to this street numbering system since most people didn't pay it any attention and it didn't last very long. I would certainly like to find a city map that showed the numbering, but I have never seen any such thing.

[Andy6]

There were also some other series of numbered streets here and there, of which one remnant is Fifth Avenue in St. Vital, originally part of a series of numbered streets. Probably Fifth Avenue was retained because of its rather glamorous association with the famous street in New York City by that name.

[Bdog]

Most probably already know this, but I just found this out the other day and was very stoked: Almost all east-west roads in Winnipeg (the older areas at least) are avenues, and almost all north-south roads are streets...

[myuglyface]

Originally Posted by myuglyface

I recall being told about numbered Avenues in Winnipeg that were changed to named Avenues at some point. I am mostly interested in where 4th Avenue N. and 10th Ave N. would have been and when the change occurred.

Thanks for responses. I am just trying to put together some information on places my greatgrandfather and family lived. My grandfathers memoirs he jotted down in the 50's mention:
" Before we went to the farm we were living in Winnipeg in a red tenant (?) on Higgins Avenue just at the transfer track. It was just recently torn down to make way for some stores."
Hendersons lists my great grandfather as being on 324 Higgins,10th Ave N. I think that would be where an auto body shop is now. He had five little kids at the time. Odd to think of people living in that spot.

[myuglyface]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I don't know exactly, but Notre Dame was known as Central Avenue and so perhaps 4th Avenue would have been 4 north of Notre Dame and 10th 10 north. If I recall correctly, the numbering was a bright idea of City Council and lasted for a couple of years in the early 1890s. When it failed to gain popular acceptance, the City officially returned the original names to the streets, which are the names we know them by now. It is difficult to find references to this street numbering system since most people didn't pay it any attention and it didn't last very long. I would certainly like to find a city map that showed the numbering, but I have never seen any such thing.

This sounds feasible as the dates I am looking at are 1890-91. It might also explain why the one address is 324 Higgins,10th Ave N. if Higgins is 10 blocks north of Notre Dame (which offhand seems possible).

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by myuglyface

This sounds feasible as the dates I am looking at are 1890-91. It might also explain why the one address is 324 Higgins,10th Ave N. if Higgins is 10 blocks north of Notre Dame (which offhand seems possible).

Yes, exactly. The directory would have had to list the renamed streets under both their old and new names.

[Andy6]

There were a lot of people living temporarily along Higgins then because it was close to the railway station. It would not have been a very luxurious accommodation. I happen to have a glass-slide image showing what the south side of Higgins was like in the early 1880s. It is looking west-southwest toward downtown:



One thing about this is that there is not a tree, plant, or blade of grass to be seen. You hear people describing Winnipeg in the early days as solid mud but I never quite understood what they meant until I saw this.

[ScrappyPeg]

What a cool picture - I would love to take a step into it and wander around.

[rgalston]

The Henderson Directory for, I believe, 1894 has the streets numbered (with their former/present names in brackets. Notre Dame was Central Avenue, and every significantly long street to the south or north was numbered so that the further you went from Notre Dame and from Main, the higer the numbers went. Ie, Fort and Graham was First Ave. S. and 1st St. S., Corydon was 17th Ave. S., and Selkirk was 17th Ave. N.

Those shanties shown in that photo, like the shantytown at The Forks a few years earlier, were a subject of public controversy in 1883-4.

[Andy6]

Of course, the City did impose the "Metro Route" numbering system on the city in the 1960s, which is a concession that numbers do make some sense ... although only "Route 90" has become firmly established in the average person's lexicon. "Route 165" initially was used equally with "Bishop Grandin" but now seems to have faded (with "Bishop" seeming to have emerged as an alternative in recent years).

I wonder whether city planners imagined that "85 and 52" would eventually become the jet-age replacement for "Portage and Main".

[Xtoval]

Andy,
Is Winnipeg the most western city in North America without numbered streets? Any major US cities without numbered streets?

[myuglyface]

Originally Posted by Xtoval

Andy,
Is Winnipeg the most western city in North America without numbered streets? Any major US cities without numbered streets?

Minneapolis not only has numbered streets they also have numbered avenues so your house could be on the corner of 36th Street and 36th Avenue.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Xtoval

Andy,
Is Winnipeg the most western city in North America without numbered streets? Any major US cities without numbered streets?

I don't think that numbered streets are very common in eastern cities, although there are some in Quebec. Owen Sound is the only city in Ontario that I can think of with a full-fledged numbered street grid, probably because it would have been one of the last cities in Ontario to be established. I'm sure there are some elsewhere in Ontario, though.

Out west, the only city that might not have them is Victoria -- again, probably because it is older than other western cities. Some places just have numbered streets (Vancouver, I think) but usually it's both. There were various variations on the system aimed at ensuring infinite (or nearly infinite) expandability -- the "crossed 100s" as in Edmonton where the central street is 100th, or the more common Calgary-style Centre Street formation with 1st St./Ave. N. etc. to the north and 1st St./Ave. S. etc. to the south, which is infinitely expandable but creates confusion with its duplicated names. Saskatoon, like Washington DC, has some lettered streets.

[Xtoval]

So it is a matter of age and not British influence? Maybe a bit of both.

[Xtoval]

Man, my first posting and I killed the thread! Let's see some more photos and discussion of Winnipeg's glorious architectural history!

[1ajs]

lol no u didn't kill the thread it come and goes

anyhow heres a neat angle showing many buildings long forgoten and lost such as the coke building witch is a real shame o yea this is circa 1959

[Andy6]

Nice one, Adrian. You can see the beginnings of postwar development, such as the new post office, the Midtown Bridge, the Marlborough Hotel addition and the new construction across from Eaton's following the Time Building fire. Nice to see both the old post offices (Main and Portage) standing -- too bad they weren't still there.

PS: Nice Armstrong's Point avatar, xtoval!

[1ajs]

armstrong point is that area we walked through last year andy?