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  #21  
Old Posted May 6, 2014, 2:58 AM
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chris08876 chris08876 is offline
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Harlem and the South Bronx are slowly experiencing gentrification. Harlem especially. In a way, with the South Bronx, its kinda of a good thing. Good thing that there are several case studies for the Bronx.
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  #22  
Old Posted May 6, 2014, 4:49 AM
mhays mhays is offline
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Originally Posted by CIA View Post
mhays, the subsidizing of the affordable units is only one component of the plan. Are you not excited about the other elements: reducing of regulatory burdens, relaxing minimum parking requirements around transit centers (which will reduce construction costs), the encouragement of development on vacant and underutilized city-owned and privately-owned lots.
Yes, those parts all sound positive, though I don't know any details.
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  #23  
Old Posted May 6, 2014, 9:01 PM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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I am sorry, but here comes the evil-no-feeling-conservative in me:

If you're poor, why the hell are you in one of the most expensive cities in the country? I have discounted NYC from my "want to move to cities" for this very reason, my income is too low. Sure, NYC needs low income workers, but if they begin to move, and their positions are harder to fill, they will either raise the wage or they will just have to contend with taking more time to fill their positions.

A poor person could move 90 miles down the road to Philadelphia and your income will almost go 50% further. It just doesn't make sense.
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  #24  
Old Posted May 6, 2014, 9:05 PM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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Originally Posted by fflint View Post
Come on. It doesn't sound like he is literally "trying" to make New York a city of only the rich and the subsidized. Whether his announced plan will make that happen or not is certainly up for debate, but I think it is fair to assume he really is "trying" to make the city more affordable.

How would you make New York City more affordable for the middle class and working class?
Trying to do something and inadvertently doing something makes zero difference.
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  #25  
Old Posted May 6, 2014, 9:08 PM
jpdivola jpdivola is offline
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
I am sorry, but here comes the evil-no-feeling-conservative in me:

If you're poor, why the hell are you in one of the most expensive cities in the country? I have discounted NYC from my "want to move to cities" for this very reason, my income is too low. Sure, NYC needs low income workers, but if they begin to move, and their positions are harder to fill, they will either raise the wage or they will just have to contend with taking more time to fill their positions.

A poor person could move 90 miles down the road to Philadelphia and your income will almost go 50% further. It just doesn't make sense.
Yeah, I get what your saying. But, NYC is one of the most dynamic economies on the planet. Allowing more people to have access to it (and SF Bay, Bos, etc) is one of the best social policies the US could have. If affordable housing is used as gravel to permit tons more market rate housing than is currently politically possible than I think it is a trade off worth taking.
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  #26  
Old Posted May 6, 2014, 9:12 PM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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Originally Posted by jpdivola View Post
Yeah, I get what your saying. But, NYC is one of the most dynamic economies on the planet. Allowing more people to have access to it (and SF Bay, Bos, etc) is one of the best social policies the US could have. If affordable housing is used as gravel to permit tons more market rate housing than is currently politically possible than I think it is a trade off worth taking.
It may be worth is, who knows. Just personally, if I were poor(wait I am lol, but not living in NYC) I would want my cash to go further. But I definitely understand why some stay(job security, family history etc etc) just like I don't agree with people staying in small poor Arkansas towns when there is little opportunity when they could move and become more prosperous.

I guess to each their own, and if NYC tax payers like this idea, then lets see what happens.
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  #27  
Old Posted May 7, 2014, 12:15 AM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
If you're poor, why the hell are you in one of the most expensive cities in the country?
No one has a right to housing in a community, but a city has the obligation to represent its populace. New Yorkers voted for a housing agenda that is welcome to all income ranges.
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
I have discounted NYC from my "want to move to cities" for this very reason, my income is too low.
I know you're not alone with this viewpoint, but having lived in New York and other places, I always find it odd. How is New York, in practical terms, more expensive than any other big city? I find New York to be a relatively affordable place to live (no joke). It's certainly cheaper than where my family lives in Michigan.

It's the only place in the U.S. where most people don't own cars, and rent burden is pretty average for national standards. Everyone has small apartments and very little "stuff". That means far less money buying crap. High taxes only hit high income households. Everything besides rent costs the same as everywhere else, or less.

Now if you want to live the same as everywhere else in the U.S., then NYC is fiendishly expensive. If you want 2,500 square feet of space and two cars like a typical U.S. household, then, yes, New York will be insanely expensive. But if you live like most New Yorkers, it's quite affordable. To me, an expensive place is South Florida, Southern California and the like. Mediocre incomes, high housing costs, heavy car orientation. You get the high costs of a desirable area along with the incomes and lifestyles of regular America.

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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
A poor person could move 90 miles down the road to Philadelphia and your income will almost go 50% further. It just doesn't make sense.
That would generally be extremely foolish. A poor person is likely much poorer in Philly. Pennsylvania has a very weak safety net; NYC has massive amounts of affordable housing, and subsidized everything.

Why do you think NYC has so many poor despite a reputation of being unaffordable? Poor don't pay market rate anything on necessities. Even in Manhattan, the % poor is quite high, and will probably always be high.
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  #28  
Old Posted May 7, 2014, 7:40 PM
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chris08876 chris08876 is offline
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Speech along with video of it. Its long, so probably best to minimize and just hear it in background. Up to you guys.
------------------------------------------------

Mayor de Blasio Unveils " Housing New York"

Video Link

NYC Mayor's Office
262 Ashland Place, Brooklyn
May 5, 2014
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  #29  
Old Posted May 7, 2014, 8:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
I am sorry, but here comes the evil-no-feeling-conservative in me:

If you're poor, why the hell are you in one of the most expensive cities in the country? I have discounted NYC from my "want to move to cities" for this very reason, my income is too low. Sure, NYC needs low income workers, but if they begin to move, and their positions are harder to fill, they will either raise the wage or they will just have to contend with taking more time to fill their positions.

A poor person could move 90 miles down the road to Philadelphia and your income will almost go 50% further. It just doesn't make sense.
I understand what you are saying jtown,man , but the thing with people is that some are willing to sacrifice, especially when it comes to money to live in such a dynamic place. For some, its not about the money, but a certain lifestyle. There are people who spend a good majority of their income on living expenses in this city, but to them, again, its about living a type of lifestyle. What's the sense in living in a city that you don't like versus one that is the Jewel of the free world? Sometimes having money isn't important if your not happy. Hell, even moving to Newark,NJ, the income will go way further and still be close to NYC. IDK its a fine line between personal choice and being financially savvy. Sometimes family also comes into play. Me personally, I'm looking at Texas. No sense in getting raped in taxes in NJ plus Texas is great for Geology/Petroleum majors like me. Also, when looking at NYC, lets not assume Manhattan right away. Its like any other city, some really expensive areas, and ones which are affordable. One could live in NYC and still have their income go far, but it depends where.
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  #30  
Old Posted May 7, 2014, 8:34 PM
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As expected, looks like there will be substantial community opposition to the idea of taller and denser development.

http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2014...-frontpage-top

Quote:
New housing should not overwhelm the neighborhood’s character, one resident, Tommy Smiling, said as he stood outside a bodega on Pitkin Avenue. In swiftly gentrifying parts of Brooklyn like Clinton Hill, where Mr. Smiling’s son lives, “it’s all brownstones, and then you have this skyscraper,” he said. “I’m not into that. Four stories? O.K., that’s not bad.”
Quote:
Rezonings could produce a ton of ultra-expensive high-rise housing that will vastly increase housing costs in ungentrified areas such as along Atlantic Avenue and Broadway from Barclays Center and the BQE into East New York. (Above, Broadway Junction, where Broadway, Fulton and Atlantic intersect on the borders of Bushwick, Ocean Hill, Brownsville and East New York.)
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  #31  
Old Posted May 8, 2014, 3:35 AM
jd3189 jd3189 is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post

I know you're not alone with this viewpoint, but having lived in New York and other places, I always find it odd. How is New York, in practical terms, more expensive than any other big city? I find New York to be a relatively affordable place to live (no joke). It's certainly cheaper than where my family lives in Michigan.

It's the only place in the U.S. where most people don't own cars, and rent burden is pretty average for national standards. Everyone has small apartments and very little "stuff". That means far less money buying crap. High taxes only hit high income households. Everything besides rent costs the same as everywhere else, or less.

Now if you want to live the same as everywhere else in the U.S., then NYC is fiendishly expensive. If you want 2,500 square feet of space and two cars like a typical U.S. household, then, yes, New York will be insanely expensive. But if you live like most New Yorkers, it's quite affordable. To me, an expensive place is South Florida, Southern California and the like. Mediocre incomes, high housing costs, heavy car orientation. You get the high costs of a desirable area along with the incomes and lifestyles of regular America.
This is the best paragraph about New York I have ever read. In fact, this explains the difference between urban living and suburban living and people (usually Americans who are deep believers of the classical "American Dream") trying to reconcile living in a city with the exact same amenities as a suburban home. If people would let go of their SUVs, various furniture, and other crap they barely use but still pay for, they could survive in the inner city pretty well financially.

Dang, I am already considering living in a city apartment for a short while after my schooling in order to pay for my debts in a short amount of time. I don't really need much to survive, just food,shelter, clothes, and some form of entertainment. A small apartment in Brooklyn in a city block that has a corner store that sells fresh produce, a little shopping district nearby, and a bus stop or subway station that can bring me almost anywhere in the city for only a less-than-$10 day pass is good enough for me. If the entire US lived like that, we would have a surplus amount of stuff left over. Not saying people shouldn't have the freedom to live better and in excess, but it seems more ideal for me to live small and get more for my buck.
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  #32  
Old Posted May 8, 2014, 5:08 AM
mhays mhays is offline
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Yeah, but you can also live the same way in another city where the apartment is half-price.

There are more options than "New York without car or much stuff" and "mcmansion fulla stuff."
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  #33  
Old Posted May 9, 2014, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jpdivola View Post
As expected, looks like there will be substantial community opposition to the idea of taller and denser development.

http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2014...-frontpage-top
I think Brooklynites seem to forget what city they're in. The gentrification of Brooklyn is full speed ahead. Well, certain parts to be precise. This is just the result of the kinetics of a development boom.
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  #34  
Old Posted May 10, 2014, 1:44 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Yeah, but you can also live the same way in another city where the apartment is half-price.

There are more options than "New York without car or much stuff" and "mcmansion fulla stuff."
Absolutely right.

It's certainly a lot cheaper to buy and live in a typical Michigan house with a typical economy car in the driveway than to buy and live in a typical NYC condo or rowhouse without a car, it is not?
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  #35  
Old Posted May 10, 2014, 1:57 PM
fleonzo fleonzo is offline
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Absolutely right.

It's certainly a lot cheaper to buy and live in a typical Michigan house with a typical economy car in the driveway than to buy and live in a typical NYC condo or rowhouse without a car, it is not?
I use to think the same thing before I moved here (NYC)....18 years later, I'm still here and doing very well- thank you! You won't understand unless you've lived here and can "survive" after your third year. After that everything else seems "easy". I go all over the US (and to Latin America) for business and if I "had" to move the only other place I'd consider would be Malibu/Pacific Palisades!
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  #36  
Old Posted May 10, 2014, 2:11 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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I use to think the same thing before I moved here (NYC)....18 years later, I'm still here and doing very well- thank you! You won't understand unless you've lived here and can "survive" after your third year. After that everything else seems "easy". I go all over the US (and to Latin America) for business and if I "had" to move the only other place I'd consider would be Malibu/Pacific Palisades!
Okay, let's say I bought your place today at current market value... what kind of mortgage payment would I be looking at?

(If you'd describe your property a bit, I could make sure I find an apples-to-apples Michigan SFH for the living costs comparison, but we can also limit ourselves to very approximate figures for a middle-class Michigan mortgage.)
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  #37  
Old Posted May 10, 2014, 2:13 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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(Don't forget how important the fact that you've been there for two decades is... it's a crucial factor. For example, someone who bought a typical Vancouver SFH in 1980 could've been living a middle-class lifestyle there continuously to this day with a relatively modest salary and say, just like you, "I'm still there and doing very well, what are you talking about?".

That would be correct, for them, but if you wanted to move there today you couldn't replicate that. At all, in their case. And to a degree, in yours, I suspect.)
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  #38  
Old Posted May 10, 2014, 2:31 PM
fleonzo fleonzo is offline
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
(Don't forget how important the fact that you've been there for two decades is... it's a crucial factor. For example, someone who bought a typical Vancouver SFH in 1980 could've been living a middle-class lifestyle there continuously to this day with a relatively modest salary and say, just like you, "I'm still there and doing very well, what are you talking about?".

That would be correct, for them, but if you wanted to move there today you couldn't replicate that. At all, in their case. And to a degree, in yours, I suspect.)
There's 400 years of history that says otherwise (i.e. "if you move there today....").. NYC is not for everyone and certainly not for the faint of heart! If you "come" here you need to aim for the fences even if you don't make it- that's why you could always leave if things don't work out. I came here for a purpose and I thank God that I'm finally getting there but if I hadn't I too would've probably left. Again it's not for everyone but to say you could've, would've' should've, etc...is missing the whole point! I could've gone to Guatemala in 1980 instead of Vancouver (as you say) and could be making the same statement you're arguing (i.e. could've bought a bigger place, mansion, farm, hacienda, etc...). Except for the clear fact that neither then nor now would I have (or would now) want to live in either place. My(your) choice.....
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  #39  
Old Posted May 19, 2014, 2:46 PM
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http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf...g_is_maki.html

Lack of senior housing is making Staten Island unaffordable for many retirees




By Tracey Porpora
May 19, 2014


Quote:
Frank and Janet Ferraiuolo have lived in a New Springville high ranch home for 46 years. Now that their children are grown, they want to downsize to a one-level, two bedroom home nearby their two sons, preferably in an active adult community with onsite amenities.

But that doesn't exist on Staten Island.

"I have one son in Brooklyn and one in Huguenot. We don't want to go to New Jersey, but there are beautiful active adult communities with clubhouses with bocce and tennis courts there," said Ferraiuolo.

And the Ferraiuolos aren't alone. Many empty-nesters are seeking to downsize and enjoy retirement, but there are few options available on Staten Island for senior citizens who desire a low-maintenance lifestyle.

The need, borough leaders say, is for both affordable and market rate senior housing.

"We need senior housing across the spectrum of incomes...We need market rate housing that is affordable for Staten Islanders. There is also a need for senior housing as defined as 'affordable' by the de Blasio administration," said Oddo.

While there has long been a push for senior housing in the borough, the crisis is now coming to a head as baby boomers are retiring in record numbers, and there are few affordable communities designated for senior citizens.



http://www.multihousingnews.com/feat...004102505.html

The Ramifications of Mayor De Blasio’s Affordable Housing Plan


May 15, 2014
By Jessica Fiu


Quote:
The mayor of New York City, Bill De Blasio, recently announced a housing plan that will preserve and create a total of 200,000 affordable units. MHN talks to Bomee Jung, interim director at Enterprise Community Partners Inc., about what this plan means for affordable housing.

MHN: What does Di Blasio’s plan mean for Enterprise? How do you feel about the plan?

Jung: Enterprise has been in New York for the past 27 years and has supported multiple administrations through their housing plans over the years. We’re very excited to be making this decision a reality here.

[The mayor’s] focus on affordable housing is very welcome. It’s the kind of leadership that we look to mayors to provide in general across the country, so the fact that we’re seeing that leadership being exercised here in New York is obviously good news for those of us working in this industry in New York.


...MHN: It sounds like there are a lot of great things coming from the Mayor’s announcement. Are there any challenges?

Jung: The housing crisis is a tremendous challenge. When you get from that macro level to looking at some of the specific challenges, at the end of the day, buildings need reinvestment. The affordable housing stock that we currently have in the City’s portfolio needs reinvestment. In order to expand affordable housing in the way that the plan proposes to do, we will need investment.

On the one hand there’s the perennial question of, “Will we be able to get sufficient resources in order to reinvest in these properties in a way that really makes them as secure as possible for long-term affordability?” The second question is something that folks in the field have really been intrigued by, which is the way that this administration proposes to use zoning as a means to deliver affordable housing. I’m sure that we’ll see more in the upcoming weeks and months about what that will really mean in practical terms.


http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1792869

Mayor de Blasio pledges to join developers, bankers in building affordable housing
The mayor tried to reassure a group of developers and bankers who build cheaper homes that he wants to partner with them in his quest to solve the city's affordable housing crisis.






BY GREG B. SMITH
May 14, 2014


Quote:
Avowed liberal Mayor de Blasio Wednesday tried to reassure developers and bankers that he's on their team in his quest to solve the city's affordable housing crisis.

“We drive a hard bargain, but in exchange we're going to be a partner to move things quickly and efficiently,” he pledged in a speech to the New York State Association of Affordable Housing, the group of developers and bankers that build cheaper housing, usually in exchange for tax breaks and zoning deals.

“This partnership, it’s critical to us,” de Blasio told the packed ballroom at a midtown hotel. “I’m here in appreciation of all you do. I’m here to make clear we need this partnership.”

De Blasio talked of loosening up rules, speeding the permit process and cutting red tape for developers in his campaign to build or preserve 200,000 affordable units in 10 years.

The avidly pro-government mayor criticized bureaucratic rules that “didn’t work in real life and they need to be amended and they need to be streamlined.”


Without providing specifics, he spoke of changing rules requiring specific numbers of parking spaces and specific floor area in new buildings.
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  #40  
Old Posted May 19, 2014, 3:09 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Absolutely right.

It's certainly a lot cheaper to buy and live in a typical Michigan house with a typical economy car in the driveway than to buy and live in a typical NYC condo or rowhouse without a car, it is not?
In my experience, no. I spend around the same or slightly less in NYC.

New Yorkers are mostly renting, so they aren't in condos or rowhouses. I find everything (besides housing) to be the same or less than in Michigan.

Now obviously apples-to-apples NYC is fiendishly expensive compared to Michigan. But that isn't how New Yorkers live.

You don't need a "Great Room" because almost no one entertains where they live. You don't need a big kitchen because you're cooking less. You don't need a basement, a garage, a guest room a dining room a study, a yard, and all kinds of things that are standard and taken for granted in middle class life in Michigan that are rather unusual in NYC.

Now, granted, one could, theoretically, take a tiny apartment in Michigan too. But, practically it wouldn't work. It would seriously impact social and family life. That just isn't how middle class people live in Michigan.
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