Halifax Stadium Discussion

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

If we had a stadium we could put the oval in there... that would be really cool!

This is an interesting idea. It could contain the skating oval during the winter. Then there would be permanent washrooms in the stadium that could be opened for public use.

[musicman]

Moving the horse club would be a huge mistake. Not only would it be next to impossible due to how the club was established with private money and the land. The club is also used for inner city youth programs, the IWK uses it for a form of physical rehab, many other community groups use it for rehab, not to mention it is heavily used by advocacy groups for individuals living with intelectual disabilities.

I would not want to see this moved out to x-park for this reason. It is challenging enough getting allot of these people to this site let alone to x-park.

[MaritimeCFLFan]

Originally Posted by c-way-dude

What are people's opinions on Halifax and Moncton sharing a CFL franchise? Could it be a way to generate the largest possible fan base, as well as the largest possible base of corporate sponsors?
A team could play 7 regular season games in a new Halifax stadium, and 2 in Moncton's stadium as it was set up for Touchdown Atlantic.
It has been done before. The Green Bay Packers started playing some of their home games in Milwaukee in the '30's. They played 2 or 3 regular season games plus a preseason game at Milwaukee County Stadium from 1953 to 1994. The Packers regular season record at Milwaukee County Stadium was 76-47-3 for a .617 winning percentage over 42 seasons. By 1995, renovations to Lambeau Field made it more lucrative for the Packers to play all of their home games in Green Bay for the first time since 1932.
Games 2 and 5 of the Packers home schedule are still the "Milwaukee games".

If the CFL ever came out and stated that the Maritimes would only ever be granted 1 CFL franchise then I certainly do think this could work. Perhaps play 3 games in Moncton and the rest in Halifax. The team would have to be given a regional name, Maritime or Atlantic (Schooners, etc.).

[halifaxboyns]

Personally, I don't think the wanderers grounds could fit a stadium big enough for what the CFL would be looking for - Fenwick: Didn't you try to put your stadium diagram there and it didn't fit? I seem to recall this or maybe it's just the fact I got 2 hours sleep last night from all the bloody plows going by my condo building.

Either way; if you didn't try it - may I recommend if you have time to see if your proposed stadium design would fit (without the removal of the bengal lancers)? I knew about the private deal; they can't leave. It would create a whole host of legal issues.

As to the whole regional team and games in Moncton versus Halifax; I suspect we'll only ever see one team here in the maritimes because of population. But I'm not against games being held in Moncton - obviously if the demonstration game they did earlier did so well, this type of thing would do well too. My only catch with that would be an expectation that businesses from Moncton contribute to the teams operation through advertising or sponsorship. A regional name isn't a big deal, I don't think it would be a major issue.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Personally, I don't think the wanderers grounds could fit a stadium big enough for what the CFL would be looking for - Fenwick: Didn't you try to put your stadium diagram there and it didn't fit? I seem to recall this or maybe it's just the fact I got 2 hours sleep last night from all the bloody plows going by my condo building.

Either way; if you didn't try it - may I recommend if you have time to see if your proposed stadium design would fit (without the removal of the bengal lancers)? I knew about the private deal; they can't leave. It would create a whole host of legal issues.

I pasted a modified version of McMahon Stadium on a Google map about a year ago and posted it. It would require rerouting a street and moving the Bengal Lancers. So although I like that location, it probably won't happen, which is probably best since it is a nice scenic green space within the city.

[reddog794]

The only public accessible area is the playing field which is used predominantly for baseball. What if it was turned 90 degrees? The only major obsticle would be the museum of natural history, and that building is in rough shape. The structure is owned by the province isnt it?

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by reddog794

The only public accessible area is the playing field which is used predominantly for baseball. What if it was turned 90 degrees? The only major obsticle would be the museum of natural history, and that building is in rough shape. The structure is owned by the province isnt it?

I wonder though if you biggest issue with that site would in fact be the infirmary. Having the ambulance entrance to the biggest trauma/tertiary care centre in the region sitting on the same block as a stadium which will have a glut of people and cars on that street would likely throw flags for the hospital/province. Even though the games are "off-hours" for most businesses, there is no off-hour for a hospital, and I really think that there may be an issue with being able to guarantee accessibility for ambulances during football games and concerts.

[reddog794]

Originally Posted by beyeas

I wonder though if you biggest issue with that site would in fact be the infirmary. Having the ambulance entrance to the biggest trauma/tertiary care centre in the region sitting on the same block as a stadium which will have a glut of people and cars on that street would likely throw flags for the hospital/province. Even though the games are "off-hours" for most businesses, there is no off-hour for a hospital, and I really think that there may be an issue with being able to guarantee accessibility for ambulances during football games and concerts.

Truthfully Beyeas, I never thought about that, it's a really good point.

I maybe wrong, as it's been a little over a year since I was home, but I thought they moved the emergency to the new robie entrance. Or was it temporary?

What about the Auatic centre lot?

[ATL Stadium]

If you had to choose between two sites.... Shannon Park vs Dartmouth Crossing which would be your choice....? A pennisula site location might be out of the equation.

If the FIFA soccer event was to come Canada's way would you want the stadium built even if Moncton was chosen over Halifax as the sole Atlantic site.?
Would you even want to wait four years or do it now?

[BravoZulu]

Originally Posted by ATL Stadium

If you had to choose between two sites.... Shannon Park vs Dartmouth Crossing which would be your choice....? A pennisula site location might be out of the equation

Hey haven't been posting much lately, but I've been following the discussion, if I had to pick between those two it would be Shannon park for sure. Dartmouth crossing would require most to still travel by car (although there is tons of parking out there)

Shannon park on the other hand could in theory use ferry service ( provided the allow for docking at the stadium) this way people could come from downtown Halifax take the ferry over, and then come back and hit up the restaurants/bars. Not sure on te capacity of the ferries or the length of the trip, but I know they've used ferry service to Alderney for events like summer rush, and it was highly used ( the ferries were packed)

Also a stadium at shannon park would have a much nicer view/ backdrop for all the tv crews to use (harbour, bridge, Halifax)

[fenwick16]

It appears that the Hamilton Tiger Cats and Mayor of Hamilton have reached an agreement that will see much of Ivor Wynne Stadium demolished and rebuilt for the 2015 Pan-Am Games. If approved by Hamilton city council and the 2015 Pan-Am organizers, it will be good news for the CFL. The renovated stadium will be expandable to 40,000 for the Grey Cup.

The renovated stadium will have 1,500 parking spots on adjacent land and a shuttle for additional parking a few blocks to the north of the stadium (towards the steel plants, I believe). Here is the skyscraperpage thread link - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...97#post5122197

Here is a map link to Ivor Wynne Stadium - http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=&q=ham...16512&t=h&z=17

[halifaxboyns]

Fenwick - I saw that article too. Good news for Hamilton; some good ideas for us too. There really isn't a lot of parking in that area now is there? I suspect the adjacent residential areas must get pretty peeved when a game is one because of all the people parking on the streets! I guess that would probably be a benefit to the shannon site or DC - you'd be able to accommodate a lot of parking and not have to worry about spill out onto adjacent streets.

Maybe you could help me out here - I was thinking about this today when I was reading about the stadium that was built for the Beijing Olympics - essentially after the games were over; it hasn't really been used since. But it got me thinking about the problem the nay-sayers are saying about the stadium not being used a lot. Does your design include the possibility of a running track around it too? It seems to me that Calgary or Edmonton's CFL has a running track around it so it can be used for football, soccer or track? Correct me if I'm wrong; but I can think of examples of that in the US (but none seem to come to mind??). I'm just thinking that it could be used for major track/field events too when not used for major sports events.

Personally, I have to agree Bravozulu about the backdrop of the stadium - you would certainly get a good backdrop flying up or down the harbour/over the bridge to take pictures from a helicopter.

I personally would've liked something on the peninsula to take advantage of existing bars/restaurants already established, but I'm doubting that will happen. The problem with either Shannon Park or Dartmouth Crossing is that there is either little to no bars/restaurants located there. BUT, I have a feeling if DC was chosen, you'd see a number of them start to pop up and certainly the existing moxie's and boston pizza would do tremendous business. As soon as the announcement was made; I'm sure you'd see the number of stand along restaurants in the area skyrocket. Only problem is that they aren't exactly 'walkable' - so traffic would be a nightmare when events are occuring (my guess).

While I do believe it important to promote transit to get to the stadium (and if effective routings are established, it can be a possibility); I think I've come to realize that it will be mainly car use to get there for now. But, with the significant purchase of articulated buses, I'm sure you could establish routes from all the major transit hubs to the stadium (encouraging people to use the park and ride) - I think Fenwick or others have suggested transit be included in the ticket price, which would probably work.

Personally, if Shannon were used, I suspect you could eventually establish a transit hub there and use the parking lot of the stadium (when not in use) to work as a park and ride and then establish a high speed ferry to downtown and then routes to Burnside. I believe we talked about that possibility of a stadium were built on the Windsor Park site and incorporated into the Forum lands. I still think it's a possibility for Shannon. Not so much for Dartmouth Crossing - but who knows?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Fenwick - I saw that article too. Good news for Hamilton; some good ideas for us too. There really isn't a lot of parking in that area now is there? I suspect the adjacent residential areas must get pretty peeved when a game is one because of all the people parking on the streets! I guess that would probably be a benefit to the shannon site or DC - you'd be able to accommodate a lot of parking and not have to worry about spill out onto adjacent streets.

Many people will be happy just to hear that Hamilton will continue on as a franchise. It is interesting, if you read the article again, that they have found a way to add parking at the current location. So once Ivor Wynne is renovated then people will likely no longer have to park on the street and on people's front yards (the homeowners might be losing out on some revenue though).

Actually there seems to be many amenities in the Dartmouth Crossings area. So I don't see why you grouped Shannon Park and Dartmouth Crossings together (other than both are in Dartmouth, they seem quite different to me - I would prefer the Dartmouth Crossing). However, I have stated many times what locations I like in the HRM so I won't bore people with such opinions.

Hopefully the HRM will come out with a real stadium design soon. One that will be practical so that it will be used, unlike the Beijing Olympics Stadium. Luckily Hamilton and other Canadian cities built stadiums many decades ago that get used on a regular basis and allow such cities to participate in a Canadian Sports League. As far as the track goes, if you read the Hamilton story, you will see that because a track is no longer required it has opened the possibility of the Ivor Wynne site. Otherwise 20 acres would be required and they would still be arguing about a location (likely the Feb 1 deadline would have passed without a solution).

I have a legitimate question, halifaxboyns. Do you think that a stadium is really being planned for the HRM? Or is this all a political ploy since there is a municipal election coming up in 2012?

[halifaxboyns]

I did see they were adding parking; but it was quite late when I read the article. I've been suffering insomnia; so I've been re-reading my report to Calgary City Council for February - that usually puts me out in a few minutes.

My comment about the existing parking was merely a comment on the fact I've never been too/seen the stadium so I was a little surprised. I have family in Hamilton; but I usually visit them at their place and then head back to Toronto.

My mention of the track was also mainly to think about ways of trying to keep the stadium active if the biggest concern from the negative nancy's of the city is that it would remain empty quite a bit. I figure if a track is there; then it could be used for other purposes like track and field - thus decreasing the amount of time the place is empty. Was just a thought.

As to your question about whether it's actually going forward - I preface my response with I'm an urban planner in Calgary; so I don't have a heads up on what's going on in Halifax. I have contacts, but I don't talk to them all the time and I wouldn't feel right pulling info like that out of them. But, based on my personal experience, I think there are some councillors that genuinely believe in the need and are trying to get something done. But my instinct says it's probably political. I hate to be negative; but that's what my gut is telling me.

I guess we'll have to see what will happen in time...

[fenwick16]

Halifaxboyns, I believe it would be a very good idea to have a stadium built so that the field could be cooled during the winter and used as a large skating surface (it would be much larger than a regular rink). I am not sure of the best way to do it since the turf would have to be protected from damage. Some stadium turfs are heated during the winter so I wonder if it would be as simple as running a coolant through buried hoses (instead of heated liquid). The chillers are already available.

However, I think one reason that the oval on the Commons is so popular is because it is in a central urban location. Would it be as popular on the fringe of the municipality?

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

As to your question about whether it's actually going forward - I preface my response with I'm an urban planner in Calgary; so I don't have a heads up on what's going on in Halifax. I have contacts, but I don't talk to them all the time and I wouldn't feel right pulling info like that out of them. But, based on my personal experience, I think there are some councillors that genuinely believe in the need and are trying to get something done. But my instinct says it's probably political. I hate to be negative; but that's what my gut is telling me.

I guess we'll have to see what will happen in time...

Im hoping this isnt the case. But I have to wonder why the city would put in a bid for the 2014 womens world cup if they had no intentions of building a stadium. I don't think they would do something so stupid after dropping out of the commonwealth games bidding process, because if we choose to drop out of this just because of political games we wont be looked at again for an eternity to host a major sporting event.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

Im hoping this isnt the case. But I have to wonder why the city would put in a bid for the 2014 womens world cup if they had no intentions of building a stadium. I don't think they would do something so stupid after dropping out of the commonwealth games bidding process, because if we choose to drop out of this just because of political games we wont be looked at again for an eternity to host a major sporting event.

I forgot about that - completely slipped my mind. We've seen discussions like this before though and nothing ever materialized. I guess if you factor into the equation the bid; there is a greater chance that the stadium would be built.

Fenwick - I think the commons oval is successful due in part to it's central urban location but also because its something to do outdoors in such a nice spot. When I skated; I loved the fact you were in an urban location. So if I didn't want a beavertail (they are too sweet for me); I could just put on my boots, walk to SGR get a coffee and go back to my mom's place. I don't know the stats on people coming from the suburbs to skate - I wonder if it's that popular?

I don't see a problem with your concept though Fenwick; it seems pretty sound to me and wouldn't conflict with the track idea I had. I'm just trying to think of other things that could be incorporated into a stadium to give it a greater ability to be used more - thus deflating the people against the stadium's argument that it would be empty so much. So you'd have football (each time there was a game); skating in winter and potentially track meets when football wasn't in season or playing and of course soccer. I wonder if having a soccer event in Halifax would create a big push for more soccer fields?

[reddog794]

I raise the idea of the stadium being located at the aquatic centre/old legion lot on... Rainne? It's centrally located, and already below street level.

[Halifax Privateer]

The Centennial Pool area is a pie shaped lot that I don't believe is near large enough for a stadium. If it is large enough, it would be a great location.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Halifax Privateer

The Centennial Pool area is a pie shaped lot that I don't believe is near large enough for a stadium. If it is large enough, it would be a great location.

My guess would be probably not. Plus even if it was, I suspect it would be tight for space - so where would the parking go? I realize you could use parking at Scotia square, but still you'd want some parking at the site. Plus considering how busy the roads are around the site - not sure how that would go over. Not to mention the adjacent residential neighbourhood having people park there and then go to the event.