Palm Trees of Canada

[tech12]

Cool pictures, count me in as another person who didn't expect palms in Canada.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Not to mention Vancouver and Victoria are commonly used as stand ins for San Francisco in countless movies and TV shows. This is because the south coast of BC and the southern interior of BC have many biological and climatic similarities to that of central and northern California

Vancouver stands in for everywhere, not just SF. It's because of incentives for film making...it's cheaper to film in Vancouver than SF, or many other places in the US.

As far as climate goes, SF itself is not that similar to Vancouver itself. SF has a Mediterranean climate (the winters are typically wet, and the summers typically completely dry), whereas Vancouver has a oceanic/marine climate, with year-round rain. Vancouver gets nearly three times as much rain per year compared to SF (62 inches vs. 24 inches), it gets snow, whereas SF does not, it has more cloud cover and fewer sunshine hours per year than SF, and SF has higher average high and low temperatures, as well as higher record highs and higher record lows.

[LeftCoaster]

Might want to check your facts again, Vancouver does not get year round rain...

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by tech12

Cool pictures, count me in as another person who didn't expect palms in Canada.



Vancouver stands in for everywhere, not just SF. It's because of incentives for film making...it's cheaper to film in Vancouver than SF, or many other places in the US.

As far as climate goes, SF itself is not that similar to Vancouver itself. SF has a Mediterranean climate (the winters are typically wet, and the summers typically completely dry), whereas Vancouver has a oceanic/marine climate, with year-round rain. Vancouver gets nearly three times as much rain per year compared to SF (62 inches vs. 24 inches), it gets snow, whereas SF does not, it has more cloud cover and fewer sunshine hours per year than SF, and SF has higher average high and low temperatures, as well as higher record highs and higher record lows.

While what you said about San Fran is true, in that it is obviously milder and drier than Vancouver, Vancouver does indeed also have a dry sunny season, which is usually the start of June to the end of September. For example, in the last 50 days we have only received 6mm of rain (0.24 inches)

Victoria, on the other hand, it much drier and sunnier than Vancouver and is often considered the northernmost Mediterranean climate in the world.

Downtown Victoria receives 23.9 inches of precipitation a year, compared to San Frans 23.63, so essentially identical. And the vast majority of this rain falls in the late fall, winter, and early spring. Victoria also receives considerably less snow than Vancouver.

Victoria lies in a rain-shadow from the Olympic and Vancouver Island Mountains, along with Nanaimo and the Gulf Islands. Hence Arbutus and Garry Oak are common in this area.

PS - Thanks for liking the pictures!

[subtropicalbc]

Victoria is very similar....

[NBTX11]

Originally Posted by subtropicalbc

Ok thanks Metro, I was just down in Huntsville, Alabama and i found their were no palms anywhere same with Mobile or Birmingham.

There are literally thousands of palm trees in and around Mobile. Huntsville and Birmingham, not so much as it's a little colder. Mobile is great for Sabal Palmetto and Butia Capitata and there are many old ones in that area. Thousands.

[tech12]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Might want to check your facts again, Vancouver does not get year round rain...

Yes, it does:

Average inches of precipitation per month, Vancouver:

Jan - 7.0
Feb - 7.2
Mar - 6.1
Apr - 4.6
May - 3.4
Jun - 2.7
Jul - 2.1
Aug - 2.0
Sep - 2.8
Oct - 5.8
Nov - 9.4
Dec - 9.1

compare that to SF:

Jan - 4.5
Feb - 4.4
Mar - 3.2
Apr - 1.4
May - 0.7
Jun - 0.1
Jul - 0.0
Aug - 0.0
Sep - 0.2
Oct - 1.1
Nov - 3.1
Dec - 4.5

Vancouver gets a lot more dry in the summer compared to the winter, but on average it doesn't get completely dry like SF does (as in zero rain).

[tech12]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

While what you said about San Fran is true, in that it is obviously milder and drier than Vancouver, Vancouver does indeed also have a dry sunny season, which is usually the start of June to the end of September. For example, in the last 50 days we have only received 6mm of rain (0.24 inches)

Victoria, on the other hand, it much drier and sunnier than Vancouver and is often considered the northernmost Mediterranean climate in the world.

Downtown Victoria receives 23.9 inches of precipitation a year, compared to San Frans 23.63, so essentially identical. And the vast majority of this rain falls in the late fall, winter, and early spring. Victoria also receives considerably less snow than Vancouver.

Victoria lies in a rain-shadow from the Olympic and Vancouver Island Mountains, along with Nanaimo and the Gulf Islands. Hence Arbutus and Garry Oak are common in this area.

PS - Thanks for liking the pictures!

Yeah, I know Vancouver has a dry season, but SF's dry season is longer and dryer than Vancouver's (SF on average gets literally no precipitation during two months of the year, and there are three more months with nearly zero inches of precipitation, which cannot be said for Vancouver), and SF's wet season is much less wet than Vancouver's. That's cool about Victoria though, I didn't know about that. It still is a little bit more wet during the summer/spring than SF, and gets far more rainy days than SF though (135 vs. 73)

[subtropicalbc]

Originally Posted by NBTX11

There are literally thousands of palm trees in and around Mobile. Huntsville and Birmingham, not so much as it's a little colder. Mobile is great for Sabal Palmetto and Butia Capitata and there are many old ones in that area. Thousands.

I didn't recall seeing any atleast not in Hunstville and Birmingham maybe in Mobile we only drove through.....

[subtropicalbc]

If you look at the stats for Victoria this summer starting july 1 theyve had maybe 10-15 mm of rain. And your guys winter gets more rain.

[UglymanCometh]

I can't vouch for Canada per se, but I live just north of yall in Detroit ... and I've spotted bamboo growing wild (in the abandoned Belle Isle Zoo, where some is creeping outside of the chain link fencing around it) and various zone pushers growing Musa Banjoo, an assortment of Elephant Ears... and Canna Lilies are VERY popular/common here. As far as the Cannas (normally hardy to zone 7a) are concerned, no protection is needed. I have neighbors who have Cannas that come back strong every year. I plan on experimenting with a Needle or Windmill Palm next year.

We're in Zone 6b for various reasons (the relative warmth provided by the waters of the Great Lakes in the winter, our urban heat island effect, and our very warm - and recently dry - summers). I'm pretty sure that with protection, one could successfully grow palms in SW Ontario.

[subtropicalbc]

Victoria's had 2 mm of rain in 2 months....

[subtropicalbc]

Somebody should experiment with a Mexican fan palm
'

[chris]

Originally Posted by subtropicalbc

Somebody should experiment with a Mexican fan palm
'

Agreed!

Apparently some Palmettos (Sabal Palm?) might be cold hardy enough to survive as well!

[Centropolis]

i'm all for trying things in marginal climates, hell i have a european palm gowing outside. however, palm trees in the eastern half of Canada just seems weirdly offensive to me. i guess the jury is out on palm trees in BC and how they feel to me...i've never seen them around Portland and wouldnt care to, perhaps that's changed.

[subtropicalbc]

Portland has a small continental influence where as for Victoria and Seattle it's almost completely maritime.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

i'm all for trying things in marginal climates, hell i have a european palm gowing outside. however, palm trees in the eastern half of Canada just seems weirdly offensive to me. i guess the jury is out on palm trees in BC and how they feel to me...i've never seen them around Portland and wouldnt care to, perhaps that's changed.

I have noticed that palm trees are more common in Vancouver than Portland, even though Portland is the warmer of the two cities.

The biggest limiting factor for palm trees in northern areas isn't really overall warmth, it's the minimum temperatures experienced over the course of the year.

Here's a mild weather station in Nova Scotia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlesville,_Nova_Scotia

Their record low is about -6 F. The record low for the Saint Louis airport station is -22 F.

[subtropicalbc]

Yes that is true but i've found that weve received so much less snow here in Vancouver then since i was a kid.

[NBTX11]

Originally Posted by subtropicalbc

I didn't recall seeing any atleast not in Hunstville and Birmingham maybe in Mobile we only drove through.....

There aren't any in Huntsville or Birmingham. At least very few that you can actually spot other than an occasional palm fanatic trying one in their back yard. Too cold there generally speaking. By cold, I mean even though the average high is in the 50s and 60sF in winter, they are prone to the occasional palm killing freeze every few years. But there ARE a lot of palm trees within 25-50 miles of gulf, to include Mobile. The main palms are Sabal Palmetto and Butia Capitata, but there are also other palms such as Canary Island Date palm and Washingtonia palms. I spend a lot of time in Pensacola, just a few miles from Mobile and you can't turn around without seeing Sabal Palmetto everywhere in Pensacola. It has naturalized all over town and you see little ones growing up everywhere along with the thousands of mature ones.

[NBTX11]

Originally Posted by chris

Agreed!

Apparently some Palmettos (Sabal Palm?) might be cold hardy enough to survive as well!

Never make it. Sabal Palmetto is native to Florida. It needs SE US heat and humidity. Washingtonia palms are also heat loving palms. They can make it in some cool climates as long as the cold is not of long duration. Constant cold weather will weaken them and do them in. Even if it only drops into the 20s at night, if you're not rebounding way above freezing during the day, they are going to weaken and eventually die. They can't take daytime highs of less than about 28F for even one or 2 days. And I have seen upper teens F kill mature Washingtonia palms. Almost all of the Washingtonia Robusta were killed in the Feb 11 freeze in El Paso TX, and maybe 40-50% of them in Austin TX, and it had been since 1989 or earlier since the last palm killing freeze.

[billy corgan]

I live in Niagara on the Lake Ontario and I grow several palms and hardy tropical plants. Most are not protected.