HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Transportation & Infrastructure


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #241  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2010, 11:57 AM
beyeas beyeas is offline
Fizzix geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South End, Hali
Posts: 1,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
Although I agree with you, what route would you take? Having 2 or 3 bridges (or tunnels) across the North West Arm would really open up that part of Halifax and relieve traffic on places like the Armdale Rotary. Could you do a sketch of the route that you would choose?

I am not sure what this is - is it a private residence or a public pool? Although I am very pro-development how can it be done without ruining this part of the city?

That's "The Wag"... a private club.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #242  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2010, 12:23 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by something_witty View Post
Oh, this is the Waegwoltic Club
http://www.waegwoltic.ca/
Thanks for the information. A bridge could be built around it, and if it is a suitable design then it might not detract from this property.

Having both Robie and Coburg bridges (or maybe tunnels) would get people more efficiently from the southern Mainland of Halifax to the business parts of the city (hospitals, universities and downtown Halifax). It would certainly increase real estate values in southern mainland Halifax. This could become a very attractive part of the city. It would also decrease emergency response times to the southern mainland of Halifax to the hospitals.

The Point Pleasant Park bridge/tunnel could work also but connections would have to be made across the CN tracks to Barrington Street. Probably replacing the Young Street Bridge and eventually tearing down the grain elevators could work. This would be a direct route for trucks going to Halterm so that they wouldn't have to travel through the city (you wouldn't want them going up Spring Garden Rd.)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #243  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2010, 7:20 PM
Dmajackson's Avatar
Dmajackson Dmajackson is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: B3K Halifax, NS
Posts: 9,310
The Waeg might become a problem however it could remain if access could be reconfigured (new bridge over cut via Waegwoltic Ave, or Fairfield Road)

I'll post a map later tonight if I get a chance but since this bridge would only have four travel lanes it could be easily tied to Cowie Hill Road via Melville Ave with miminal land exapropriation to accomadate new vehicular traffic.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #244  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2010, 9:23 PM
Keith P.'s Avatar
Keith P. Keith P. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,982
I always thought that the logical place for an Arm Bridge was from the Horseshoe Island part of Quinpool to the area where Purcell's Cove Rd and Herring Cove Rd meet.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #245  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2010, 10:49 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
I always thought that the logical place for an Arm Bridge was from the Horseshoe Island part of Quinpool to the area where Purcell's Cove Rd and Herring Cove Rd meet.
Would you still have Quinpool Road connected to the Armdale Rotary, or only have access from Quinpool via Herring Cove Road?

What if Connaught and Coburg were linked and then have a bridge?

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #246  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2010, 7:33 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 3,883
Interesting concept - the question is whether HRM would have the stomache to expropriate the land? Serious question - one which is going to probably start coming up more and more as time passes.

Last trip home I got to talk to a couple councillors (since my uncle works at the Ward 5 centre) and I've known a few of them from my past. One of them said to me that they thought things were getting harder on council - I told her that if she thought it was hard now, wait until the really big decisions need to be made like high speed ferry and crossings over the arm or a 3rd bridge lol.

A crossing will help; but should also be considered in a regional context to transportation. I'm hopeful that when the regional plan is redone for 2025 (when it expires) they will do a regional transportation plan - much like Calgary did it's Municipal Development Plan (Plan It) included a City Wide transportation plan with it as well (CTP).

You could then have a bridge, but then that might be the only crossing but also have a high speed ferry service - near the bridge on the Mainland side which would go to downtown.

One last thing I'd comment on - with regards to the route of the bridge. I wouldn't put it on the dingle road - my last memory of that road was it was very narrow and might be very confined for expansion. You may be able to do something with it if you move it closer to the apartment building - less obstruction and easier to do a ROW for say 4 lanes? Then the ferry terminal park and ride could be on the opposite side.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #247  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2010, 11:09 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
Interesting concept - the question is whether HRM would have the stomache to expropriate the land? Serious question - one which is going to probably start coming up more and more as time passes.

....................

One last thing I'd comment on - with regards to the route of the bridge. I wouldn't put it on the dingle road - my last memory of that road was it was very narrow and might be very confined for expansion. You may be able to do something with it if you move it closer to the apartment building - less obstruction and easier to do a ROW for say 4 lanes? Then the ferry terminal park and ride could be on the opposite side.
Some tough decisions will have to be made by HRM council, I hope they have the courage to make decisions that will benefit all of the HRM and not just their individual districts (I know that is unlikely since they represent the constituents in their own districts).

It will be easiest to use some park land and build new roads (just minimize the detrimental effect) - whether it is Point Pleasant Park or Sir Sanford Fleming Park. Many people will oppose it, but I think that making Point Pleasant Park more accessible would be good for all of the HRM. The South End could benefit also by having parkland in the Mainland South opened up for use. I really like the Point Pleasant Park concept because it could have direct connections to Halterm for trucks and to downtown Halifax for cars and buses. If Halifax is to become a major city then some decisions will have to be made (as you pointed out) but these could be for the betterment of Halifax.

Many see development as all bad, but it can result in better transit connections, more performing arts, more sports facilities, more diversity of parks and historic sites, museums, etc. I like cities, so I would like to see Halifax grow into a more dynamic city but maintain its unique qualities also.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #248  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2010, 11:24 AM
Nilan8888 Nilan8888 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 199
Guys those are good plans that I agree with for bridges across the Arm, but -- I don't want to be the guy to say something like this, and I'm not certain if anyone else has mentioned it -- I really don't think those things are going to happen anytime soon.

Why? Look at where the bridges are getting put. That's precisely where the homes of some of Halifax's wealthiest citizens are. Bridges like those, even small ones, are going to negatively affect those property values. They don't want that traffic, and the NIMBY factor here would be ungodly.

I'm not trying to make one of those class warfare cases, but a lot of that area is really protective about that stuff. One neighborhood in particular raised concrete blockades and installed speed bumps in its own neighborhood because the current traffic routes were causing dents in the value of thier homes.

These plans are pretty much what I agree Halifax should have for expansion, but there's considerable local politics at play here against them.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #249  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2010, 11:34 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
I agree with you Nilan8888 and the South Enders deserve consideration of there concerns. However, for too long the South End has been pampered at the expense of the rest of the HRM. They are part of a much larger community that they work in and attend events in.

Some things have changed. Since Halifax is now part of the HRM, the South End is now a much smaller fish in the HRM than they were when they were the big fish (or whale) in the city of Halifax. Whereas the South End is stagnating or even declining in population the rest of the HRM is growing in population and importance.

PS: As a home owner for the past 20 years (4 different homes) I can say that most home owners want good transit connections, and good transit connections can increase the value of a home. Although most people would not want their own street turned into a major roadway, most don't mind having a major roadway (not a highway) 1 or 2 blocks from their homes for convenience.

Here is an idea; if the northern fringe of the Point Pleasant Park was used for connector roads and a tunnel was built across the North West Arm to Point Pleasant Park (instead of a bridge) then any material excavated for the tunnel could be filled into the harbour at the southern end of Point Pleasant Park to recover any small amount of land lost to the roadway. Just think, Point Pleasant Park could go from an underutilized HRM treasure to a very well used HRM treasure.

Last edited by fenwick16; Jun 16, 2010 at 12:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #250  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2010, 6:55 PM
Canadian_Bacon's Avatar
Canadian_Bacon Canadian_Bacon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
Some tough decisions will have to be made by HRM council, I hope they have the courage to make decisions that will benefit all of the HRM and not just their individual districts (I know that is unlikely since they represent the constituents in their own districts).

It will be easiest to use some park land and build new roads (just minimize the detrimental effect) - whether it is Point Pleasant Park or Sir Sanford Fleming Park. Many people will oppose it, but I think that making Point Pleasant Park more accessible would be good for all of the HRM. The South End could benefit also by having parkland in the Mainland South opened up for use. I really like the Point Pleasant Park concept because it could have direct connections to Halterm for trucks and to downtown Halifax for cars and buses. If Halifax is to become a major city then some decisions will have to be made (as you pointed out) but these could be for the betterment of Halifax.

Many see development as all bad, but it can result in better transit connections, more performing arts, more sports facilities, more diversity of parks and historic sites, museums, etc. I like cities, so I would like to see Halifax grow into a more dynamic city but maintain its unique qualities also.
Agreed. It would be great for trucks to have a quicker access route to the terminal, and it might make that port more attractive to container companies. I agree that I want to see Halifax grow, and be more dynamic but keep it's identity. Some of the councillors might not think that is possible, but it is.

With your picture showing a potential bridge crossing on the 'northern fringe.' The roadway coming from the bridge could be extended right to the port, making a faster way to get to the port by truck instead of having to travel through the city center.

Quote:
Here is an idea; if the northern fringe of the Point Pleasant Park was used for connector roads and a tunnel was built across the North West Arm to Point Pleasant Park (instead of a bridge) then any material excavated for the tunnel could be filled into the harbour at the southern end of Point Pleasant Park to recover any small amount of land lost to the roadway. Just think, Point Pleasant Park could go from an underutilized HRM treasure to a very well used HRM treasure.
That's a good point about the fill that would be dug up if a tunnel were put in. You could reclaim some of the land that would be lost by putting a roadway in the park.
__________________
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
- Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #251  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2010, 10:22 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Bacon View Post
Agreed. It would be great for trucks to have a quicker access route to the terminal, and it might make that port more attractive to container companies. I agree that I want to see Halifax grow, and be more dynamic but keep it's identity. Some of the councillors might not think that is possible, but it is.

With your picture showing a potential bridge crossing on the 'northern fringe.' The roadway coming from the bridge could be extended right to the port, making a faster way to get to the port by truck instead of having to travel through the city center.
The interesting thing is that Marginal Road, which the trucks use going to Halterm, connects to Point Pleasant Drive going along the northern fringe of Point Pleasant Park - http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=&q=poi...ed=0CBYQ8gEwAA (I don't know if trucks actually take this route since they would have to take Tower Road through the South End). I think that it would be great if Barrington could be extended across the tracks and connect to Point Pleasant Drive with a bridge going across the North West Arm. (Maybe if the grain elevators are ever torn down, Barrington could take that route and then cross the railcut)

It looks like the Young Avenue bridge and road could be 2 lanes in each direction (4 lanes) by removing on-street parking: here is the streetview link: http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=&q=you...ed=0CBYQ8gEwAA

Last edited by fenwick16; Jun 17, 2010 at 1:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #252  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2010, 12:56 AM
hfxtradesman hfxtradesman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 84
My 2 cents worth: It`s time Halifax shrinks council, gets someone thats not getting their back pockets lined and starts making the tough decisions. Right now everyone is protecting their own interests, not the greater good of the city`s future. Our kids will pay down the road when there is nothing here for them.

Downtown needs younger families and places for them to move into, we have to start bringing life back into the downtown area, not just for retirees but for everone. I was on the boardwalk on Sun. and the majority of people were not families, guess they were busy outside the city core.

All I am saying is we (hrm council) need to change our ways.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #253  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2010, 4:01 AM
Canadian_Bacon's Avatar
Canadian_Bacon Canadian_Bacon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
The interesting thing is that Marginal Road, which the trucks use going to Halterm, connects to Point Pleasant Drive going along the northern fringe of Point Pleasant Park - http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=&q=poi...ed=0CBYQ8gEwAA (I don't know if trucks actually take this route since they would have to take Tower Road through the South End). I think that it would be great if Barrington could be extended across the tracks and connect to Point Pleasant Drive with a bridge going across the North West Arm. (Maybe if the grain elevators are ever torn down, Barrington could take that route and then cross the railcut)

Yeah. Looking at those street views, I think your right about extending Barrington right to Point Pleasant Dr. Only issues would be as you said, the grain elevators (Well the conveyor that goes accross the tracks.) Plus those houses/ apartment buildings that probably wouldn't want to see large trucks going by all day long.

But it would be interesting to see something done in that area.
__________________
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
- Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #254  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2010, 4:14 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Bacon View Post
Yeah. Looking at those street views, I think your right about extending Barrington right to Point Pleasant Dr. Only issues would be as you said, the grain elevators (Well the conveyor that goes accross the tracks.) Plus those houses/ apartment buildings that probably wouldn't want to see large trucks going by all day long.

But it would be interesting to see something done in that area.
This is a sketch that I posted before. I think that the downtown could be connected to a North West Arm without requiring much Point Pleasant Park land.

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #255  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2010, 5:12 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 3,883
Young Avenue is a 2 lane boulevard, but I think it's a residential standard - not a high speed/high vehicle count standard (if you get my meaning).

Ultimately - i think hfxtradesman is right - council needs to start making some tough decisions now...before it's too late.

I think Fenwick is on the right track - but ultimately you may end up seeing a tunnel to a certain extent if it goes Robie Way. I actually believe both bridge spans that you've proposed Fenwick are important and vital - why limit? What will limit the success is money (number one) and political will. I think the only way you might be able to see people in the south end support any such thing is to ram it down their throats in a way that its tolerable (which I think will end up meaning mostly tunnel) - what isn't seen; shouldn't cause problems.

This could then supply materials to expand Point Plesant park to a certain extent or build more fill into the harbour somewhere else.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #256  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2010, 9:04 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
Young Avenue is a 2 lane boulevard, but I think it's a residential standard - not a high speed/high vehicle count standard (if you get my meaning).

Ultimately - i think hfxtradesman is right - council needs to start making some tough decisions now...before it's too late.

I think Fenwick is on the right track - but ultimately you may end up seeing a tunnel to a certain extent if it goes Robie Way. I actually believe both bridge spans that you've proposed Fenwick are important and vital - why limit? What will limit the success is money (number one) and political will. I think the only way you might be able to see people in the south end support any such thing is to ram it down their throats in a way that its tolerable (which I think will end up meaning mostly tunnel) - what isn't seen; shouldn't cause problems.

This could then supply materials to expand Point Plesant park to a certain extent or build more fill into the harbour somewhere else.
One thing to note is that a truck route has been proposed but though the railcut (this was a couple of years ago when paving the railcut was being proposed). One reason that it didn't proceed was because it ended up being estimated to cost $280 million (it was considered as part of an Atlantic Gateway project) - I think both railcut bridges would have to be replaced to widen the railcut to accomodate trucks. I agree that both a Robie Street bridge/tunnel and Point Pleasant Park bridge/tunnel would be best. The Robie Street bridge/tunnel would be best for the hospitals and Dalhousie University. A Barrington Street/Marginal Road route would be best for truck traffic and downtown Halifax traffic.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #257  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2010, 1:34 PM
beyeas beyeas is offline
Fizzix geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South End, Hali
Posts: 1,303
Part of the problem in general is the bottlenecks that seem to be inherent to transportation planning in Halifax.
We seem to build links that simply drop you into areas that are inefficient.

It was said earlier in this thread that people in southern Dartmouth/Cole Harbour etc drive on the 111 all the way to the Mackay to get over the harbour, and that is absolutely true (I used to do it when I lived in Cole Harbour). Why is that?

I don't think it is because the Macdonald itself is at capacity, it is because of the roads leading to and away from the Macdonald inherently back the traffic up. On either end you immediately run into a set of lights as well as intersecting smaller streets. So at rush hours the "bridge" backs up not because the bridge is necessarily too small, but the traffic backs up from the intersection all the way onto the bridge. Most of this would seem to me to a combination of tough geography, but also poor long term planning (a golf course should never have been able to trump a smooth connection from the highway to the Macdonald).

I fear that the same will be true of any 3rd link. All that might happen is that it dumps traffic into a residential neighbourhood, rather than onto a higher speed restricted access road, and let's face it, a harbour expressway ain't gonna happen. I feel like, before we spend a billion dollars on a new link, that we need to more fundamentally look at how we want/need to move people into the regions of the downtown that require it (and I mean that in the big picture, in terms of do we want/need a 6 lane road to downtown, do we want/need dedicated bus right-of-ways, do we want/need a rail link to downtown, or some combination thereof). It is a foregone conclusion that someday we will need either more or bigger links to the peninsula, but I don't think that simply adding another link will be a panacea in and of itself. Short of a Big Dig through the south end, I worry we will just be dumping people onto another street filled with stop lights, and we will be no better off.

Someone mentioned above that a tunnel (Big Dig type deal) might be more palatable, which might actually be true. It is something that I could get behind maybe it the cost was spread between a tunnel not only for cars but also as dedicated ROW for transit (e.g. subway, light rail, or even just bus).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #258  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2010, 11:01 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyeas View Post
Someone mentioned above that a tunnel (Big Dig type deal) might be more palatable, which might actually be true. It is something that I could get behind maybe it the cost was spread between a tunnel not only for cars but also as dedicated ROW for transit (e.g. subway, light rail, or even just bus).
A North West Arm tunnel would certainly have less visual impact than a bridge. Calling it the Mini-Dig might be preferable. "Big Dig" conjures up ideas of the massive multibillion dollar project in Boston to bury some of its highways - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig .

There has been some talk of tearing down parts of the Gardiner Expressway in Toronto (it is a real eyesore and cuts much off the city of from Lake Ontario). One short eastern section has been torn down. Another section may be torn down east of Spadina Avenue.

Halifax was ahead of its time when it stopped the Harbour Drive project. Halifax needs better connections but boulevards are more acceptable than highways (at least within the city). Maybe Halifax avoided this when the Harbour Drive was stopped: (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardiner_Expressway)



Last edited by fenwick16; Jun 18, 2010 at 1:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #259  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2010, 11:56 PM
Canadian_Bacon's Avatar
Canadian_Bacon Canadian_Bacon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyeas View Post
Part of the problem in general is the bottlenecks that seem to be inherent to transportation planning in Halifax.
We seem to build links that simply drop you into areas that are inefficient.

It was said earlier in this thread that people in southern Dartmouth/Cole Harbour etc drive on the 111 all the way to the Mackay to get over the harbour, and that is absolutely true (I used to do it when I lived in Cole Harbour). Why is that?

I don't think it is because the Macdonald itself is at capacity, it is because of the roads leading to and away from the Macdonald inherently back the traffic up. On either end you immediately run into a set of lights as well as intersecting smaller streets. So at rush hours the "bridge" backs up not because the bridge is necessarily too small, but the traffic backs up from the intersection all the way onto the bridge. Most of this would seem to me to a combination of tough geography, but also poor long term planning (a golf course should never have been able to trump a smooth connection from the highway to the Macdonald).

I fear that the same will be true of any 3rd link. All that might happen is that it dumps traffic into a residential neighbourhood, rather than onto a higher speed restricted access road, and let's face it, a harbour expressway ain't gonna happen. I feel like, before we spend a billion dollars on a new link, that we need to more fundamentally look at how we want/need to move people into the regions of the downtown that require it (and I mean that in the big picture, in terms of do we want/need a 6 lane road to downtown, do we want/need dedicated bus right-of-ways, do we want/need a rail link to downtown, or some combination thereof). It is a foregone conclusion that someday we will need either more or bigger links to the peninsula, but I don't think that simply adding another link will be a panacea in and of itself. Short of a Big Dig through the south end, I worry we will just be dumping people onto another street filled with stop lights, and we will be no better off.

Someone mentioned above that a tunnel (Big Dig type deal) might be more palatable, which might actually be true. It is something that I could get behind maybe it the cost was spread between a tunnel not only for cars but also as dedicated ROW for transit (e.g. subway, light rail, or even just bus).
This is what I always thought as well. When I hear about how bad traffic is on the bridge. I just think about how it's probably because of how the entrance, and exits are on the Macdonald bridge. Not because the bridge itself was at capacity, but the roads going to the bridge are at capacity, or not designed well for the amount of traffic. Instead of intersections, it sould have just been exits, that way traffic is always flowing, and doesn't stop. Coming off that bridge on the Dartmouth side, you have the tolls to go through, then an intersection. So the planners should have known this would be a problem with large traffic volumes.

I could not agree more with the part I highlighted.
__________________
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
- Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #260  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2010, 12:03 AM
hfxtradesman hfxtradesman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 84
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:10 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.