Transit Police - good value or waste of money?

[lightrail]

Just wondering what people think.

The Transit Police budget for next year is $28 million. That's right, $28 million, for a transit police force.

My question: where is all the money going?

There are 48 SkyTrain stations. So this works out to about $583,000 per station per year for policing. You could hire 7 or 8 skytrain attendants for each station for that kind of money.

I've never seen police in the stations, so exactly where is all that money going?

I know, the Transit Police look after the entire transit system - but I've never ever seen them on the buses or at bus loops either.

Just asking? Anybody know or thoughts.

And by the way, isn't it overkill having two armed police offered demanding to see your ticket on the train?

[Yume-sama]

Are the transit police actually "armed" in Vancouver? I, too, have never seen any of these $28 million mystery men.

I have seen REAL police, but not... transit police.

[Xerx]

really? i've seen them quite a bit whenever i take skytrain

[deasine]

Well, there are a few instances where the SCBCTAPS have been useful, arresting a few troublemakers around the system, but that rarely happens. It's important to note that the Transit Police do have authority to write tickets for people who don't pay their fares, unlike SkyTrain attendants. The issue is: none of the fares get paid anyway. I think it would be more effective if we reduce the size of the police force, hire more attendants, and work out a solution with ICBC and Solicitor General.

[cabotp]

Well once the fare gates go up. They won't be needed as much. If at all.

And I've seen them lots of times. I don't think their main job was to check fare tickets. Yes they can give you a ticke. But their main job is more of a security role. It gives some people a sense of security when a cop is around. I did say some people so not every feels secure, especially the criminal

[NetMapel]

I don't know what authority they have, but I feel much safer if I see them around my station late at night while I wait for my bus connection. Pretty much everytime I wait at a skytrain station late at night, I see them or the actual police, so I'm very happy with the security of these skytrain stations so far. Faregate or no faregate, I think they'll be around, but maybe reduced in numbers.

[gillty]

I always see at least one officer when I take the Skytrain.

fyi the SCBCTAPS are peace officers and such can perform any duty a RCMP or VPD officer can.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

I don't know what authority they have, but I feel much safer if I see them around my station late at night while I wait for my bus connection. Pretty much everytime I wait at a skytrain station late at night, I see them or the actual police, so I'm very happy with the security of these skytrain stations so far. Faregate or no faregate, I think they'll be around, but maybe reduced in numbers.

Ya that is what I'm thinking as well. They will still be around just maybe not as many as now

[CLC]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Are the transit police actually "armed" in Vancouver? I, too, have never seen any of these $28 million mystery men.

I have seen REAL police, but not... transit police.

If you take skytrain like once per half year, you've probably never seen them.

I do see their value is , if transit police check fare, almost no one dare to run away from them (or you can get taser-ed as we know from the news). But if it is the skytrain attendant or the green shirt C-Line attendant, I have always seen people (obviously without valid fare) run away from them.

[Zassk]

I'd like to see assertive attendants as on the C-line put in all of the SkyTrain stations. I wonder how many police would be necessary after that. I bet costs would go down rather than up.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by lightrail

I know, the Transit Police look after the entire transit system - but I've never ever seen them on the buses or at bus loops either.

Metrotown bus loop is the place I "sometimes" see them walking by, but the loop is probably considered attached with the station anyway.

[nname]

I seem them quite often at Coquitlam Station, especially at night.. and even once on the #701.

[EdinVan]

Originally Posted by Xerx

really? i've seen them quite a bit whenever i take skytrain

I see them all the time, too, standing around in a circle having a jolly chit-chat while their backs are turned to what's going on in the stations. Definitely value for money.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by EdinVan

I see them all the time, too, standing around in a circle having a jolly chit-chat while their backs are turned to what's going on in the stations. Definitely value for money.

and if they all surrounded you and asked you where you were going and what you were up to, you'd be posting about it being a police state, etc, etc

Reality check, the 'crime train' has done more to make criminals mobile than anything else, especially with no turnstiles. Police are needed and they are not all out on the platforms or buses etc, as they have to write reports, conduct inquires, attend court, etc

Plus police are also responsible for other things, such as event planning and safely moving people around. Given how many people use transit on a daily basis, its hardly enough.

[WBC]

They are there - there is no doubt about that. I use Expo line almost daily and are see them perhaps 2-3 twice a week. They frequent some stations more then others (for example Metrotown for obvious reasons). I have to say that I rarely see them during the peak hours as their ticket checking would interfere with the flow. But sometimes that happens too.

As to whether they are a waste of money - having 80-100K paid guy chase after $2-3 ticket evaders is a colossal waste of money IMHO. Especially because payment of fines is not enforced. That should be the job of SkyTrain attendants which seem to be rather underutilized since the police took over fare checking on the old lines. However, the cops are there to help with safety issues and in that area I think they help at least from public perception point of view and in terms of deterrence. As everybody knows nobody can guarantee your safety and presence of a few cops on the lines is not going to change that fact.

[Whalleyboy]

well like said before they dont do just skytrain they do the whole system
I see them driving every where in Surrey couple times seen them at bus stops dealing with people. So i'd like to say yeah there useful for there price

[Spork]

Indeed, I see them all of the time and definitely see their value. Most of the time they are writing tickets, but I am certain that they are alert, and if something bigger is going on, they take care of it. I've seen them on b-line busses checking fares, as well as taking care of problem people on skytrains/busses.

[EdinVan]

Some of you are attending to and remembering what's most salient --- unusual situations where the transit police are actually doing something (eg, writing a ticket, apprehending someone). You're not remembering all the other unremarkable times when they're just fading into the background, chatting and joking around and looking up only every once in a while to see if there's something going on. They are far too complacent considering how much they're getting paid to be attentive (if they didn't hang around in packs, this would be less of an issue). But as I've said before, they're your tax dollars; if you think you're getting good value for your money, great.

[Pinion]

I ride bus, seabus and frequently skytrain at least five times a week and I almost never see these guys. Maybe it's because I'm not in the bad parts of town for crime but besides one ticket sweep of the seabus (four officers caught four people without tickets - sure was good use of time) I've never seen any need. More security guards and less cops with cop wages and cop egos would be fine.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Zassk

I'd like to see assertive attendants as on the C-line put in all of the SkyTrain stations. I wonder how many police would be necessary after that. I bet costs would go down rather than up.

Can't, that's actually against the law.

The ONLY power an ordinary citizen has over another citizen is to ask them to leave private property that they own or are an agent of the owner.

An ordinary citizen cannot detain, arrest, or question another free person without witnessing an indictable offence and placing the person under citizens arrest. Anything else, like asking someone to wait against their will, counts as false detainment and kidnapping.

And you can't create special circumstance. You can't say this person is special, just because they put on a coat and work for the government. We are all created equal. They NEED to be an officer of the peace and have the proper training to have the special rights over other people.

Funfact: Did you know that if you leave a store and the security device rings, that if someone asks you to stop, and you stop because you believe they have the power to, or they assert themselves by physically stopping you, that they just arrested you. And if the did NOT witness you commit a crime, they can be charged for abusing your rights as an innocent person.

According to the Transit Act of BC, it is an offence (non-criminal offence) to breach the rules for riding transit. So even if you witness someone riding for free, it is illegal to place them under citizens arrest (which a security guard or transit staff would have to do to give them a ticket) for a non-criminal offence. They can ask to see your valid proof of payment, and if you can't/don't prove it, they can attempt to issue a fine or ask you to leave. If you leave, you are complying and they can't detain you. If you ignore them, then you are committing trespass, which is a criminal offence, for which they can detain you.


So I don't care how much people think the transit police is a waste of money, eroding our rights to give rent-a-cop security guards or average off the street employees the power to enact their will over other free beings is wrong in our society. I don't care if it is to stop people riding transit for free, maintaining our freedom and ideals is more important.