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  #1  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2012, 6:41 PM
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Halifax ranked as fourth best place to live in Canada

Halifax ranked as fourth best place to live in Canada
Annual MoneySense magazine survey puts Ottawa at No. 1 again

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Published: March 20, 2012 10:07 a.m.
Last modified: March 20, 2012 10:32 a.m.

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The nation’s capital is ranked as the No. 1 place to live in Canada for the third year in a row, according to MoneySense magazine.

But Halifax made a big, big jump, going from 21st to fourth to rank as one of the top cities in the country.

The personal finance and lifestyle magazine ranks 190 Canadian cities each year in categories such as house prices, crime rates, employment, and healthcare.

Each city or town with a population of 10,000 people or more is ranked against 22 categories, which include climate, ease of travel, affordable housing, and population growth.

Halifax’s jump by 17 places was from gains in employment and population growth, the magazine said.

“The move was due to an improved unemployment rate (5.5 per cent) following growth in the transportation, education and service sectors,” the magazine reads. “The city also gets high marks for the number of people who bicycle or walk to work, its affordable housing, decent public transit system, high household income, culture, and the number of healthcare professionals and doctors.”

New Glasgow fell to the bottom of the list this year at 190th place.
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  #2  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2012, 10:20 PM
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I just read we were 21st . I must have read last years lol....
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  #3  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 7:31 AM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Propaganda, we have terrible transit.
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  #4  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 4:46 PM
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Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian View Post
Propaganda, we have terrible transit.
It might not be great but it's better than what's available in most of the cities on that list. I can't think of too many cities outside of the "big 6" with significantly better transit systems than here, and most are actually much worse.
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  #5  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 6:12 PM
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It might not be great but it's better than what's available in most of the cities on that list. I can't think of too many cities outside of the "big 6" with significantly better transit systems than here, and most are actually much worse.
That's what I was thinking. Because Halifax is a city with relative national importance, we often get compared to cities with several times our population. I doubt you'd find many other small cities with better transit than us.
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  #6  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 6:44 PM
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That's a fantastic jump, guys! Be proud!
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  #7  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Hali87 View Post
It might not be great but it's better than what's available in most of the cities on that list. I can't think of too many cities outside of the "big 6" with significantly better transit systems than here, and most are actually much worse.
How are you quantifying that? Most small cities aside from Halifax have much more reliable service... most of them aren't so geographically large for their small relative population.

We shouldn't be comparing ourselves to bad models anyway, that's part of the problem.
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  #8  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 9:11 PM
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That's a fantastic jump, guys! Be proud!
We are -- but I also do not expect us to settle for 4th place
Let's see how Halifax evolves with all this new construction and population.
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  #9  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2012, 1:13 PM
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As someone who lived in Halifax and now lives in Toronto, I can buy the transportation argument.

Transportation services in Halifax is not great, and it needs to be better unquestionably. And the time to put in that infrastructure is NOW.

Toronto is an example of how you do NOT want your transportation system to unfold. Toronto grew without much plan to handle the sprawl beyond a certain point. Things are fine if you live not far from Yongue street, and great if you live not far from there and south of Bloor. And you know -- that's a sizable area.

But most people now live in places far outside that corridor. TO is a city of 5 or so million people, and it has 2.5 subway lines -- the .5 is a line consisting of about 5 stops. London England, for comparison, has something like 12 lines.

That's absolutely rediculous.

On top of that it relies a lot on tram cars, which no other city does... you know those shots of San Fransisco with those famous rail cars? Turns out San Fran only has 1 or 2 of those working in the entire city. It mothballed that stuff as a serious transportation alternative some time ago. But TO still relies heavily on this outdated way of travel. What if one of the cars breaks down, or there's snow? First car in the line can't move. Guess what happens? Similar to what happens if there's any stoppage on the 2 subway lines that the city depends on. There's no backup system. You're totally screwed. You gotta go all the way up to grab a shuttle bus -- oh, and did I mention Toronto HAS no dedicated shuttle buses, so they just commendeer regular buses -- and by the time you're up there and almost ready to get on that bus... oh guess what, the subway line is fixed and people are heading back down.

It's insane. And it's because the city didn't do enough years back.

So yeah, Halifax should avoid this fate. Invest NOW, and invest smart. Build this stuff while you still can.
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  #10  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2012, 5:11 PM
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Toronto is growing so quickly that, really, it needs a constant full pipeline of large-scale transportation projects. They can't really afford two or three years of delays while fighting over something like LRT vs subways. In Vancouver, the Millennium Line opened in 2002, Canada Line was 2010, and now the Evergreen Line is already under construction. I think the planning for the Evergreen Line was already started before the Canada Line was done.

Halifax is not so bad because it's growing by 5,000 instead of 100,000 per year, but areas like Bedford really do need some kind of new infrastructure. HRM council has already waffled for about 15 years and the problem will only get worse and worse.
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  #11  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2012, 6:06 PM
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I can't speak to how well Halifax's transit system compares to similar sized Canadian cities, but compared to the three 'largest cities in New Brunswick it's a cake walk. The transit here in Saint John is MUCH, MUCH less useful than in Halifax, and Saint Jonn's is by far the most useful system in NB. Poor frequencies, short service spans, and EXCRUCIATINGLY indirect transit routes make trips on even the main bus routes slow and frustrating. You don't use it unless you really need to.

Halifax's transit system has some big holes, but it provides a lot of people, especially in central areas, with respectable to good service to most of the major destinations: downtown, malls, business parks, hospitals, universities. It's quite useful for many people.

I always get a kick out of these surveys. We jumped 17 spots in a year on quality of life, partly because there's more people moving here. Hmm, doesn't seem like everyone piling into Toronto is improving their quality of life. Oh well, I guess it measures how much city boosters have to brag about then anything else.
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  #12  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2012, 7:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilan8888 View Post
As someone who lived in Halifax and now lives in Toronto, I can buy the transportation argument.

Transportation services in Halifax is not great, and it needs to be better unquestionably. And the time to put in that infrastructure is NOW.

Toronto is an example of how you do NOT want your transportation system to unfold. Toronto grew without much plan to handle the sprawl beyond a certain point. Things are fine if you live not far from Yongue street, and great if you live not far from there and south of Bloor. And you know -- that's a sizable area.

But most people now live in places far outside that corridor. TO is a city of 5 or so million people, and it has 2.5 subway lines -- the .5 is a line consisting of about 5 stops. London England, for comparison, has something like 12 lines.

That's absolutely rediculous.

On top of that it relies a lot on tram cars, which no other city does... you know those shots of San Fransisco with those famous rail cars? Turns out San Fran only has 1 or 2 of those working in the entire city. It mothballed that stuff as a serious transportation alternative some time ago. But TO still relies heavily on this outdated way of travel. What if one of the cars breaks down, or there's snow? First car in the line can't move. Guess what happens? Similar to what happens if there's any stoppage on the 2 subway lines that the city depends on. There's no backup system. You're totally screwed. You gotta go all the way up to grab a shuttle bus -- oh, and did I mention Toronto HAS no dedicated shuttle buses, so they just commendeer regular buses -- and by the time you're up there and almost ready to get on that bus... oh guess what, the subway line is fixed and people are heading back down.

It's insane. And it's because the city didn't do enough years back.

So yeah, Halifax should avoid this fate. Invest NOW, and invest smart. Build this stuff while you still can.
Your comments aren't very fair or accurate regarding Toronto. Toronto's main problem is that it hasn't been building fast enough for the last decade or so to keep up with population growth. But all it really needs is one more subway line the length of YUS and its system will be as large relative to the population as NYC.

And comparing it to London? London even makes NYC look bad. It opened its first line in 1863, almost a century before Toronto opened its. This was at a time when London was the largest and richest city in the world and head of the world's largest empire, and Toronto wasn't even the largest city of (a yet to be formed) Canada.

As far as the streetcars, they haven't been considered outdated since the mid 20th century. Today, many cities in NA and around the world are building or planning streetcar routes. You mention the drawback of the route being disrupted if one vehicle breaks down or if it snowed but you failed to mention that there are also several advantages, like streetcars last 4 times longer than buses, use less energy, can carry far more people, and provide a smoother, more comfortable ride. And I don't know where the snow comment came from, as streetcars are not stopped by snow. They operate in several winter cities without issue in including Helsinki, and of course St. Petersburg which had the world's largest streetcar network for many years.

Besides, buses couldn't even handle the high ridership of some of the streetcar routes in Toronto. The only way to serve them without streetcars would be another east-west subway line (which should have been done years ago) but like you said, that would have the same downfall as streetcars if one vehicle broke down. But how often does that even happen?

Overall, the TTC has the 3rd highest ridership of any transit agency in NA behind only NYC and Mexico City, despite the TTC only covering the city proper. The bus and streetcar routes have amazing frequency that people in Halifax could only fantasize about. And their service is 24 hour with 24 different routes operating between 1-5am at 1/2 hour frequency or better. Most of our routes don't operate any more frequently than that in the middle of the day...
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  #13  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2012, 7:19 PM
Nilan8888 Nilan8888 is offline
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As someone piled into Toronto, I would have to say... no.

Don't get me wrong, there's tons of stuff here you can't get in Halifax. But then it hits me when I sit back and think... how often do I actually use that stuff?

Plus the local politics here -- hey, I thought Peter Kelley had gotten stale, and people like Dawn Sloane were incompetent... but given the mayor right now, I'd kill for someone like Kelley. And maybe, er, verbally abuse someone for a Dawn Sloane. Rob Ford has brought on an utter gong show.

The only thing bad I've heard about Vancouver is that you have to often end up paying extra because the transit systems often take you outside one district and into another, so you pay extra fare. I've run into that in TO as well, but not all that often. Even if Halifax were to experience an absurd amount of growth I don't think that could ever legally happen now, since you'd have to live outside the county at this point in order for that to happen.

But still -- three new subway lines since 2000? That's incredible compared to here. I don't know what the situation is in Montreal but it's got to be superior as well. Halifax will never have a subway, but it really should look into putting in some sort of commuter rail to branch both sides of the harbor and up into Sackville and Hammond's Plains if the ferry option is truly dead.
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Old Posted Sep 7, 2012, 7:52 PM
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Your comments aren't very fair or accurate regarding Toronto. Toronto's main problem is that it hasn't been building fast enough for the last decade or so to keep up with population growth. But all it really needs is one more subway line the length of YUS and its system will be as large relative to the population as NYC.
I think it's been a problem going on longer than just the past decade. I mean, you tell me: you get off a plane at Pierson. Where's the direct connection into the city transit system? Right, I get off at Billy Bishop and Union Station is right there, fine. But Pierson's the main airport, where's its connection? That airport's been there -- what, from the '50s, '60s? Longer? But I still can't get to it by subway or rail? There's very large sectors of the city that don't have easy access to the main grid.


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And comparing it to London? London even makes NYC look bad. It opened its first line in 1863, almost a century before Toronto opened its. This was at a time when London was the largest and richest city in the world and head of the world's largest empire, and Toronto wasn't even the largest city of (a yet to be formed) Canada.
Yes. It was also bombed significantly in the 1940s, something TO never had to contemplate. I mean if we're going to draw in the history of the British Empire as a bonus, we might as well draw WWII in as a demerit.


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As far as the streetcars, they haven't been considered outdated since the mid 20th century. Today, many cities in NA and around the world are building or planning streetcar routes. You mention the drawback of the route being disrupted if one vehicle breaks down or if it snowed but you failed to mention that there are also several advantages, like streetcars last 4 times longer than buses, use less energy, can carry far more people, and provide a smoother, more comfortable ride. And I don't know where the snow comment came from, as streetcars are not stopped by snow. They operate in several winter cities without issue in including Helsinki, and of course St. Petersburg which had the world's largest streetcar network for many years.
I just know of instances here where these ones have been stopped by snow. How these things are managed in Sweden and Russia I don't know. And all those are nice advantages of the streetcar, but they don't resolve things when these blockages occur. I see them often enough walking down King street to work.

That streetcars use less energy and last longer and are more comfortable are very important problems but secondary to the situation TO is in. That situation being a serious transit crisis (there was a survey of cities not so long ago that rated Toronto the worst in North America -- behind even LA, which doesn't have a subway for earthquake-related reasons). That streetcars carry more people is much more relevant to that crisis, but none of that helps if one of the cars breaks down for whatever reason.


Quote:
Besides, buses couldn't even handle the high ridership of some of the streetcar routes in Toronto. The only way to serve them without streetcars would be another east-west subway line (which should have been done years ago) but like you said, that would have the same downfall as streetcars if one vehicle broke down. But how often does that even happen?
Well I'm not saying we should replace the streetcars with buses -- better something else (Transit City and the LRT, probably). But subway breakdowns occur quite often in my experience. The streetcars I witness largely as a pedestrian. But the Yongue Line last year was absolutely horrible for delays and stoppages for the average commuter day. I'm now on the Bloor Line, which is older but much better and more reliable -- but the Yongue Line had gotten to the point where every second or third trip the train would stop at least once for a significant amount of time in mid-travel. And there must have been ten or more times where either the train had to go out of service, or we came to a stop and the power went out, or most of the line was nixed for 30-40 minutes or more.


Quote:
Overall, the TTC has the 3rd highest ridership of any transit agency in NA behind only NYC and Mexico City, despite the TTC only covering the city proper. The bus and streetcar routes have amazing frequency that people in Halifax could only fantasize about. And their service is 24 hour with 24 different routes operating between 1-5am at 1/2 hour frequency or better. Most of our routes don't operate any more frequently than that in the middle of the day...
Oh, I don't debate the frequency of the buses that arrive -- although I have been waiting on TTC buses on several occasions. Halifax perhaps gets an unjust comparison because I was able to walk almost anywhere I wanted to go.

Which is really my point. Is Halifax service as good as the TTC? No. But it better fits the needs of most of the people of Halifax at present. Or at least it better fit my needs. Halifax can and definitely should upgrade this service. And they should certainly use TO as a model as far as the timetables of its bus services.

But the transportation infrastructure itself? What TO has built in the time given to it? I think you're praising this city a bit too much.

Last edited by Nilan8888; Sep 7, 2012 at 8:04 PM.
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  #15  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2012, 8:34 PM
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I agree in terms of the rail infrastructure as the subway should be expanded by 50-100% and the GO system should have its 3 busiest lines electrified and all lines increased in frequency and run longer hours. But the rest of it are mainly issues with living in a large busy city. Have you lived in any other city as large as Toronto? They are congested, and they have annoying things happen including delays (both with transit and with cars), but this is not Toronto specific.

Btw, I'm not sure what you mean by replacing the streetcars with LRT or Transit City. The only difference between Toronto streetcars and LRT (as the term is commonly used) is that the current streetcars are mostly in mixed traffic rather in their own dedicated lanes like LRT (with the exception of Spadina and St.Clair) but the routes most of the streetcars run on do not have wide enough streets to allow for this. And the same issue would exist if a vehicle were to break down.

In terms of service to airports, Pearson may have been around for many years, but it wasn't until more recently that Toronto's urban area expanded enough to justify a subway link that far out. It's in northern Mississauga after all. It is, however, served by at least 3 different bus routes, whereas before last May, Stanfield wasn't even served by one...
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  #16  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2012, 5:28 PM
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For me is the number one.
I think there isn't another place with this landscape.
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