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  #101  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2015, 2:52 AM
RED_PDXer RED_PDXer is offline
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Originally Posted by 58rhodes View Post
IMO thats too many units for a block that size in the 6 story format
I'm not sure that's a valid point. Units are getting smaller and smaller, so they aren't necessarily squeezing too much in that low-rise envelope. That said, I haven't seen the details, so perhaps you are right.. Obviously, I'd prefer to see a 10-15ish story building thrown in there.
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  #102  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2015, 3:55 AM
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Originally Posted by RED_PDXer View Post
I'm not sure that's a valid point. Units are getting smaller and smaller, so they aren't necessarily squeezing too much in that low-rise envelope. That said, I haven't seen the details, so perhaps you are right.. Obviously, I'd prefer to see a 10-15ish story building thrown in there.
I hate to see units getting smaller and smaller--what about family units?
does the family even exist in the "new Portland"?
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  #103  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2015, 5:03 AM
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I hate to see units getting smaller and smaller--what about family units?
does the family even exist in the "new Portland"?
I can identify with this as my family lives downtown. We make it work, but it would be nice if there were more units in a range that families can afford....
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  #104  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2015, 6:59 PM
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I can identify with this as my family lives downtown. We make it work, but it would be nice if there were more units in a range that families can afford....
Another think to keep in mind is that families are getting smaller, my wife and I are only planning on having one kid, and I know a number of friends who also have only had one kid with no plans for more. That isn't to say that is common place, but it is becoming more common and therefore meaning people don't need as much space as they once needed.

For those looking to live in a more urban setting, a 2 bedroom for a couple and a child could easily be enough space for that family to be happy with. That also isn't to say there isn't still plenty of single family options for people in Portland and the metro, but it just isn't as easy as it once was when homes were under $100K.
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  #105  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 12:39 AM
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Drawings [PDF - 98 MB].
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  #106  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 1:11 AM
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oof. That is a lot of above-ground parking. Next door to the MAX.
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  #107  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 3:05 AM
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It's different, the shape is a nice departure from what we usually see in Portland, but it seems like a lot of the spaces that are being created will be awkward rather than an inviting space that will draw people through the site. I personally wouldn't want to live in a unit that is directly above a road, even if it's one that's designed not to carry a lot of traffic.
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  #108  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 6:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cityscapes View Post
the shape is a nice departure from what we usually see in Portland
That's because you're seeing it from above. Yeah, from airplanes it'll look cool. But on the ground, where it will actually be seen, it'll be very long superblock walls of apartments that all look the same.

For me, this proposal is one humongous miss. They're trying to cram as many apartments into the space while spending the very least to do it. I'm downright shocked that people aren't railing against this one.
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  #109  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 12:07 PM
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It's different, the shape is a nice departure from what we usually see in Portland, but it seems like a lot of the spaces that are being created will be awkward rather than an inviting space that will draw people through the site.
This sounds about right. I think I was more impressed with the concept than I am with the execution. Monotony is an issue, despite all the interesting things they've done with angles. This much density so close to the street does give the design considerable intensity and urban feel -- more so than most existing places in Portland, even those ringed by high-rises. However, with its vertical slit-like windows like so many defensive meurtrieres in a castle wall, zero balconies and few apertures of any kind in those long, monotonous façades, the public areas do feel uninviting indeed -- and particularly inappropriate for a development that's primarily residential. Even extremely dense residential areas that have developed organically are never so hermetic, and buildings like the Brunswick Centre in Bloomsbury, London, or Moshe Safdie's Habitat in Montreal, with their terraced balconies, are examples of how modern architecture can replicate traditional strategies for dwelling in such dense spaces. This design needs more work. Particularly, this space at the center doesn't feel remotely like an inviting gathering space or living room:



Too bad. But hopefully Holst receives the right kind of prodding and encouragement to develop a creative design like this into something more convincing.
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  #110  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 12:36 PM
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That's because you're seeing it from above. Yeah, from airplanes it'll look cool. But on the ground, where it will actually be seen, it'll be very long superblock walls of apartments that all look the same.

For me, this proposal is one humongous miss. They're trying to cram as many apartments into the space while spending the very least to do it. I'm downright shocked that people aren't railing against this one.
I agree with your opinion but I'm not going to worry about this happening anytime soon. Phase II of AAT (Oregon Square) is further along in the design process, for one thing, which would have as many units as this one. Somehow, I don't see Lloyd as quite warranting this level of intense development, at least in the short term. Timing, of course, is extremely important. So what's really going on here? Possibly it's to maximize the development potential of the parcel and then flip it for a nice profit. We'll see but there's a whiff of desperation in this design.
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  #111  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 3:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Encolpius View Post
This design needs more work.
If the facades seem unresolved it's because they haven't even begun designing them. Notice that the drawing packet doesn't even include any elevations. This submission is for an entirely optional Design Advice hearing, and Holst are hoping to get buy off from the Commission on the concept of the diagonal pedestrian street. Should they receive that they're expecting to have at least two more Design Advice hearings, where they will present designs that are further along.

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I agree with your opinion but I'm not going to worry about this happening anytime soon. Phase II of AAT (Oregon Square) is further along in the design process, for one thing, which would have as many units as this one. Somehow, I don't see Lloyd as quite warranting this level of intense development, at least in the short term. Timing, of course, is extremely important. So what's really going on here? Possibly it's to maximize the development potential of the parcel and then flip it for a nice profit. We'll see but there's a whiff of desperation in this design.
I'm pretty sure this is real. If nothing else, Holst are not the architects you would hire to prove that it's possible to develop the site. I'm sure many other architects in town would be able to produce schematic designs showing 5 blocks of donut shaped buildings, for much lower design fees.

Of course a sudden recession could kill this off at any time, but that goes for any project. Personally, I'm not too worried about the ability of the Lloyd to absorb 1,000 units every couple years. The River District URA had that much supply come online in 2004, 2005 and 2008, with smaller increases in every other year of the 2000s. And even with that huge amount of supply we saw rents shoot up the moment the market stopped building.
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  #112  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 7:11 PM
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Personally, I'm not too worried about the ability of the Lloyd to absorb 1,000 units every couple years.
I'm not either.

A: Lloyd, and the stretch along inner-inner-SE are both going to become new "it" neighborhoods among would-be Pearl-bound Portlanders, but even more so among the out of state plates crowd. I hear that some Marin County high schools are already expecting to have reunions in The Yard since it'll be cheaper than having all of those relocated alumni travel back to the bay. Sarcasm? What? Me? Never.

B: There's a market for it. My jaw dropped when studios started renting for $1,000 plus. Boy was I wrong. Nobody even blinked when $1400+ became the new normal for studios. By the time they get this hospital-looking monstrosity built, they'll probably fetch $1600+ for studios. I remember someone here saying rent has leveled out, but I sure as heck am not seeing it... and as photos of dildos hanging from Portland power lines continue to go viral, Portland's mystique grows nationwide. Sadly - and somewhat horrifyingly - $1600 a month studios are probably still affordable to the tech crowd that's getting priced out of places like New York and San Francisco.
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  #113  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 7:47 PM
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You are concerned about rents going up, but also about developers building too many apartments. Got it.
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  #114  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 7:57 PM
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You are concerned about rents going up, but also about developers building too many apartments. Got it.
Oh, no no no... I'm not concerned about too many apartments at all. Quite the opposite. I'm thrilled that these and others are coming, especially in Lloyd, which has been ripe for development for so long. I just think this particular concept is awful. Absolutely awful. The idea of building superblock long stretches of hospital-like monster buildings... it looks so bad. Split the buildings up. Add some high rises and some low rises. Imagine if the Hassalo block was just a pair of identical block long snake buildings.
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  #115  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 9:01 PM
58rhodes 58rhodes is offline
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I guess Im an old fart that's not with it but that thing looks like a prison for wealthy impaired. If that's supposedly European I dont like it. just my opinion.
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  #116  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 10:21 PM
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Yea it looks like some sort of corperate campus or something. Why can't they just copy Oregon Square/Hassalo on 8th concept? Is it that hard?
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  #117  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 10:24 PM
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Yea it looks like some sort of corperate campus or something. Why can't they just copy Oregon Square/Hassalo on 8th concept? Is it that hard?
even something like the goat blocks
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  #118  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 11:10 PM
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Regal Lloyd Center Theaters Will Stay Open

http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-3...stay_open.html

The Regal Lloyd Center 10 & IMAX theaters were slated to become the next block of apartments in the Lloyd District, but today Regal Entertainment Group announced that the theaters will stay open.

Cypress Equities, the management company for Lloyd Center, and Regal want to keep Regal's presence in what they call the "historic" and "acclaimed" Lloyd District, but they're still discussing what that will look like.

Until a new theater is opened (no word on exactly where it would be), Regal will keep screening movies at Lloyd.

“Currently, we have many years remaining on our long-term lease," wrote Jerry Grewe, vice president of real estate at Regal Entertainment Group, in a July 23 statement. "But with the local revitalization efforts we are reviewing various potential options for a new replacement theatre that will continue to provide an exceptional moviegoing experience for our guests.”
The apartment creep continues throughout the Lloyd District, with a new development opening its doors today just two block west of the theater. But, for now, Ant-Man, all the minions and Adam Sandler remain safe.
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  #119  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 11:16 PM
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innovativethinking & 58rhodes: EXACTLY.

I don't understand how anyone could equate complaining about this horrible industrial park design to not wanting apartments built here. Yes, please do build 1,000 apartments on this site! But they have the equivalent of six city blocks to work with. Six blocks worth of the same hospital style facade?

I'd feel differently if the reason they were going as cheap as possible was because these were going to be affordable housing. I'd still be disappointed, and I'd still think they could (and should) do better... but at least there would be a reason for going cheap.

Take away the bike and the stripe of red paint, and you're looking at a hospital in the suburbs.



Of course I'd love to see a tower here, but even if it's going to be mid rise buildings, can't they break it up?!?! I'm blown away that on this forum of all places, six blocks of the same building is design to cheer about.
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  #120  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2015, 11:21 PM
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http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-3...stay_open.html

“Currently, we have many years remaining on our long-term lease," wrote Jerry Grewe, vice president of real estate at Regal Entertainment Group, in a July 23 statement. "But with the local revitalization efforts we are reviewing various potential options for a new replacement theatre that will continue to provide an exceptional moviegoing experience for our guests.”
I wonder what kind of monkey wrench this throws into the mix. I'd love to see them move the theaters into the old Nordstrom space.
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