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  #8061  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 8:12 PM
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LilZebra LilZebra is online now
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One route that duplicates others is the 16 Osborne Plaza Drive.
  • 51 Waverley Heights feeder
  • 76 Ft. Garry-St. Vital feeder
These buses already cover the area between St. Vital and Ft. Garry via the Fort Garry Bridge (Bishop Grandin "Expressway")

Put the service back on these two branches:
  • 16 Osborne Island Lakes
  • 16 Osborne St. Vital Centre
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  #8062  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 8:30 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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Hey, Bishop Grandin is an expressway, just not a freeway. We have many expressways, but very little freeway.

Local to me, routes 44 and 43 all travel very similar routes through the area. 44 splits into two routes, which generally travel about 1-2 blocks apart. Transit could get that down to two routes from three route if they adjust the 43 slightly as well. I'm sure there are many routes like this throughout Winnipeg.

Again, you'd lose proximity to bus routes, but gain frequency. And I sure wouldn't want transit to cut down on these type of routes to expand routes into places like Waverley West or Sage Creek. Those are places where I think park and rides would work. All those people living in bays and cul de sacs can drive to a designated point, such as transitway stations, if they don't want to drive and park downtown. I think (hope) that's transit reasoning for the park and ride locations for the southwest transitway.
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  #8063  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 8:34 PM
cllew cllew is online now
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I don't know if it still like this but i would suspect that most transit management don't ride the buses to work.

Back in the late 70's a girl from High School's dad was a transit planner and he didn't ride the Watt St bus (100 ft from their house) to 421 Osborne because it was too inconvenient having to transfer downtown.

Forward 20 years to the future and somebody else I went to High School with became a Sr Manger there and he also never took the bus because it was too inconvenient to get from NK to 421 Osborne by bus.

If the planners and managers don't want to take the bus because they feel its too inconvenient imagine how the paying customers feel about the service.
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  #8064  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 8:38 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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Are they not forced to ride the bus a certain amount throughout the year? So they get a feel for operations and how the routes are working. Think I heard this somewhere, potentially SSP. To/From work would be the ideal time.
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  #8065  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 8:52 PM
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My school guy if I recall properly was able to take a transit SUV home as part of his employment contract.
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  #8066  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 8:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cllew View Post
I don't know if it still like this but i would suspect that most transit management don't ride the buses to work.

Back in the late 70's a girl from High School's dad was a transit planner and he didn't ride the Watt St bus (100 ft from their house) to 421 Osborne because it was too inconvenient having to transfer downtown.

Forward 20 years to the future and somebody else I went to High School with became a Sr Manger there and he also never took the bus because it was too inconvenient to get from NK to 421 Osborne by bus.

If the planners and managers don't want to take the bus because they feel its too inconvenient imagine how the paying customers feel about the service.
Years/decades ago an article in one of the local papers interviewed Rick Borland, then General Manager of WT.

He said that he never took the bus from his home in the Kingston Row area because it was "too inconvenient".

A transit friend of mine has ridden the the bus with former WT Planner Bill Menzies, who did ride the routes he planned.

Last edited by LilZebra; Jun 22, 2017 at 9:55 PM.
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  #8067  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 2:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
Are they not forced to ride the bus a certain amount throughout the year? So they get a feel for operations and how the routes are working. Think I heard this somewhere, potentially SSP. To/From work would be the ideal time.
No. No requirement for any Transit employee to ride the bus. The current acting director actually does take the bus to/from work and lives in Transcona. During the last labour disruption his bus was often one that was cancelled.
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  #8068  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 2:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilZebra View Post
Years/decades ago an article in one of the local papers interviewed Rick Borland, then General Manager of WT.

He said that he never took the bus from his home in the Kingston Row area because it was "too inconvenient".

A transit friend of mine has ridden the the bus with former WT Planner Bill Menzies, who did ride the routes he planned.
Bill Menzies and Rick Borland actually did use the bus a fair bit. Dave Wardrop was no Rick Borland. Menzies had great vision but much of it was either not acted on or was scaled way back. His successor had no vision (the debacle of the last change to the 84/86 service that had to be completely changed 2 weeks after implementation for example) and has now retired. There's some good people in that department now.
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  #8069  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 2:33 AM
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On the day that TransPlan 2010 Report was released, Winnipeg Sun columnist and former Councillor Peter Diamont wrote a piece advocating "mass transit" for Winnipeg.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080827...rntransit.html

Quote:

The Winnipeg Sun

Tuesday, January 27, 1998
Commentary: Peter Diamant
Modern transit system overdue

Transportation planning has been the driving force in shaping Winnipeg. The city has expanded its suburban road network, built expensive bridges and ignored its local streets, lanes and transit system.


The TransPlan 2010 Steering Committee is presenting its plan for the Winnipeg region today. It is an opportunity to provide a new vision for Winnipeg. The success of downtown is dependent on a modern transit system — a transit system for the 21st century.


The last major transportation plan, The Winnipeg Area Transportation Study, was completed in the '60s. While it included a transit component, it was the ambitious regional street network that caught the fancy of the transportation planners. Within a decade, it was clear that Winnipeg's growth did not warrant such an extensive plan.


Even so, the city was committed to acquiring the land needed for the regional streets. Today, most of the streets and bridges have been built. Few of the transit components were ever considered. It will be interesting now to see whether the city has the same commitment to acquire and retain the land needed for a modern transit system such as exclusive busways or light rail transit (LRT).


The consequence of the city's automobile focus is obvious. Those who could afford to moved to the suburbs. Jobs and shopping centres soon followed. Other cities countered suburban growth with a transit system designed to draw people back downtown. Both Edmonton and Calgary have modern, attractive LRT systems. Ottawa has an extensive network of exclusive bus right-of-ways that bring people downtown in less time than it takes to drive.


The problems of Winnipeg's inner city have much to do with the absence of a modern transit system. The city has missed more than one opportunity.

In the '70s, then-mayor Steven Juba promoted a monorail transit system. The transportation planners laughed, but few of them suggested the other obvious alternative, an LRT system. In the 80's, the province and the federal government signed an agreement to fund the Southwest Transit Corridor, a corridor connecting the downtown and The Forks to the University of Manitoba on an exclusive bus right-of-way.


The city allowed the funds to lapse.

Winnipeg is fortunate to have a system of rail lines cutting through the city that can be used for either an LRT or an exclusive bus system. The potential is there — the vision is missing.


During the past six years, city council has focussed on administrative reorganization and cost cutting. As a result, local streets are in a deplorable condition and the delivery of day-to-day services has suffered.


While grandiose schemes for new arenas and office buildings for civic employees are proposed as the salvation for the downtown, transit struggles to keep what it has.


The past failures to commit funds to transit by both the province and the city means Winnipeg has fallen behind other Prairie cities.


A modern transit system requires a firm provincial commitment. Instead, the province has abandoned Winnipeg's downtown. It is moving its offices to the suburbs, promoting development outside Winnipeg's boundaries and closing its downtown casino.


A new transportation plan that pays only lip service to transit while putting all its dollars into new suburban regional streets will do little to change Winnipeg's downtown. A plan that commits to a modern transit system has the chance to make a difference.


Peter Diamant is a former city councillor and former deputy minister of urban affairs.

Last edited by LilZebra; Jun 23, 2017 at 3:04 AM.
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  #8070  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 3:01 AM
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Overcrowding was an issue back in 1982...

https://web.archive.org/web/20080908...adedbuses.html
Quote:

Winnipeg Free Press
September 20, 1982
6
LETTER: Overloaded buses

Does the Winnipeg Transit System have a department that keeps watch on the flow of passengers on the different bus routes? It is astounding the number of Portage-Polo Park buses there are compared to the number of Ness Express buses. During the rush hour, one can see two or three Portage-Polo Park buses to every one Ness Express bus. The worst part of this is that the Portage-Polo Park buses are never filled.


Is it within the traffic safety laws to overload these buses to the bottom steps? I have many times seen passengers have to stand all the way down Portage Avenue, and much of the time all the way down Ness. Is this justifiable fo regular bus-pass passengers to have to stand all, or nearly all, the way home after a day's work?


On cold winter days one can stand at the Polo Park bus stop and see three or four full Ness buses go by and not even stop. I have waited, standing in sub-zero temperatures, for as much as 45 minutes.
The transit system should take a closer look at the flow of passengers and adjust the number of buses accordingly before it considers raising fares.

GEORGINA JACKSON
Winnipeg
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  #8071  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 3:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinguni View Post
Bill Menzies and Rick Borland actually did use the bus a fair bit. Dave Wardrop was no Rick Borland. Menzies had great vision but much of it was either not acted on or was scaled way back. His successor had no vision (the debacle of the last change to the 84/86 service that had to be completely changed 2 weeks after implementation for example) and has now retired. There's some good people in that department now.
Oh, really? What was the "debacle"? How was it revised?
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  #8072  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 3:12 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
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When I used to take the bus from home to downtown four buses running variations on the route would leave my downtown stop within about five minutes of each other then not show up again for another 20 minutes. Of those three buses effectively ran the same route. One was the regular service and two were express buses. The regular service alternated between clockwise and counter clockwise on the residential end of the route while the express buses ran opposite directions on the residential loop with a couple minor variations. You could have effectively taken those four buses and scheduled them five minutes apart and offered better frequency but then the first bus would be overcrowded all the time as the buses were timed to match up to common end of work day times for people.

A different solution would be to move to more a hub based system. So you would leave from downtown to a more suburban hub and then transfer there to the residential loop service. That would shorten your time between hubs but would likely not change your overall travel time significantly. To make the hub style system even remotely appealing you would need sizable shelters with better heating in winter than what we have now.

It isn't that I don't want change it is more there is no easy solution to the issue unless tax payers put in even bigger piles of money. With the province changing their funding model for transit that likely means a larger share would need to be picked up by Winnipeg tax payers.

Considering the amount of hate the SW dogleg gets when it is actually trying to do something meaningful to address both travel time and frequency of service I am not sure spending six+ figures on a study to collect dust on a shelf on how to improve transit service is the right move for Winnipeg to make right now.
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  #8073  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 6:24 PM
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May 11, 2017
Manitoba Museum
Jarrett Walker - Humanizing Transit (Frequent Transit Service)

Video Link


Marty Green, who once had a cable-tv programm on Videon or Greater Winnipeg Cablevision back in the 80s-90s got up to the mic. to comment on the 14 Ellice & 15 Sargent routes. He was the one who said to eliminate (partially?) routing and put the bus resources to one of the two routes but not both.

https://cptdb.ca/topic/16100-marty-g...ansits-system/

Last edited by LilZebra; Jun 23, 2017 at 7:11 PM.
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  #8074  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 9:13 PM
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LilZebra LilZebra is online now
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NFI Midi

Wondering if/when WT will relace 20 yr. old 940 series suburban feeder buses with a newer model. Transit discussion forum has photo of model called the 'Midi'. Comes in 30 and 35 ft. varieties.

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  #8075  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LilZebra View Post
Oh, really? What was the "debacle"? How was it revised?
The route changes added 15 to 20 minutes to a trip, but no time was added. Fixed by revising the schedules.
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  #8076  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
When I used to take the bus from home to downtown four buses running variations on the route would leave my downtown stop within about five minutes of each other then not show up again for another 20 minutes. Of those three buses effectively ran the same route. One was the regular service and two were express buses. The regular service alternated between clockwise and counter clockwise on the residential end of the route while the express buses ran opposite directions on the residential loop with a couple minor variations. You could have effectively taken those four buses and scheduled them five minutes apart and offered better frequency but then the first bus would be overcrowded all the time as the buses were timed to match up to common end of work day times for people.

A different solution would be to move to more a hub based system. So you would leave from downtown to a more suburban hub and then transfer there to the residential loop service. That would shorten your time between hubs but would likely not change your overall travel time significantly. To make the hub style system even remotely appealing you would need sizable shelters with better heating in winter than what we have now.

It isn't that I don't want change it is more there is no easy solution to the issue unless tax payers put in even bigger piles of money. With the province changing their funding model for transit that likely means a larger share would need to be picked up by Winnipeg tax payers.

Considering the amount of hate the SW dogleg gets when it is actually trying to do something meaningful to address both travel time and frequency of service I am not sure spending six+ figures on a study to collect dust on a shelf on how to improve transit service is the right move for Winnipeg to make right now.
My part of the solution is doing what should have been done when the 25 was introduced. Short turn the local service and have the express buses and feeders cover the areas further out. For instance, 24 would only go to Moray during rush hour while the 25 would cover the area beyond.
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  #8077  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by LilZebra View Post
Wondering if/when WT will relace 20 yr. old 940 series suburban feeder buses with a newer model. Transit discussion forum has photo of model called the 'Midi'. Comes in 30 and 35 ft. varieties.
No idea if they are going to order some. 911 to 925 are 20 years old, although 1 has been scrapped already. 930 - 949 are 15 years old. All of them have caused back injuries to drivers due to the combination of poor suspensions and bad seats. They should all be high priority for replacement.
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  #8078  
Old Posted Today, 3:29 AM
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To me, the Portage Avenue RT is the last on my priority list. Service, even in rush hour, is pretty good, especially with the Express and Super Express routes. If anything, maybe add Transit Priority Signals at all the lights so that non-peak times when there parked cars in the curb lane, busses can easily skip ahead.
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