PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[Jawnadelphia]

"Construction is underway to fill a vacant property along Seventh Street in Old New Castle with four buildings that will bring apartments and retail space.
Pennrose, LLC is building phase one of the $20 million development project that will produce 120 one and two-bedroom apartment units.
The company, which acquired the approved site in May, said the project is the first new multifamily development in Old New Castle since 2010."




http://www.delawareonline.com/story/...tle/881601001/

[Nomad9]

This question has been on my mind for a while since I’m new to the area. How do those of you in the Philly metro view Wilmington and New Castly Co.? A satellite city? Edge city? Suburb? Separate area entirely?

It seems very culturally and physically (the built environment) similar to Philly, but it still feels completely independent. If I lived 30 miles from Dallas, Atlanta, DC, etc. and within the same MSA, I’d probably say that I’m from the “[Dallas/etc] area,” even if I were in an otherwise established town. However, I don’t catch myself saying that here—instead I say “Wilmington” or “Delaware.” It feels more like a separate metro bordering another, much larger metro, rather than feeling like it’s part of the same MSA. Maybe that’s because Wilmington is an old and historic city in its own right and because it’s the largest city in a different state.

Anyway, just curious how others view Wilmington in relation to Philly/the metro area generally. It seems uniquely situated to me.

[skiesthelimit]

That old new castle project seems quite random to me, but I think it's a sign of the growth and spur that is about to begin. The urban factor is really spreading throughout Wilmington, with 202 urbanizing by Silverside, and now this, it'll be interesting to see what Wilmington looks like in 10 years, it'll probably be unrecognizable.

re Nomad9; I feel like majority of us say Delaware, and we don't really think of us being a part of Philly's metro, at least not as an immediate thought, so saying I'm from the "Philly area" just sounds way off, especially since you cross state borders.

I feel like it's also like someone from KOP saying they're from the Philly Area, it seems off. But I definitely agree that Wilmington definitely does kind of feel like it's own metro of sorts. I usually hear Wilmington being referred to from as north as Claymont, as south as New Castle and/or Christiana, and as far west as Hockessin. But never are we clumped with Philly, outside of statistics.

[Urbanthusiat]

Wilmington is similar to Philly, but in some ways culturally distinct. The Northeast is very provincial, and this is an example of this. Wilmington has existed for a long time, and has thus has a more developed, unique identity than some satellite cities in the West or South. In other parts of the country, principle and satellite cities were born at roughly the same time and grew up together - they're siblings. Philly and Wilmington are more like step-siblings, which grew up independently for a while, but we're thrown together at one point because their parents got married, never got totally comfortable with each other, and kept different last names.

[mja]

Originally Posted by Nomad9

This question has been on my mind for a while since I’m new to the area. How do those of you in the Philly metro view Wilmington and New Castly Co.? A satellite city? Edge city? Suburb? Separate area entirely?

This lifelong Philadelphian considers Wilmington to be a separate area, albeit geographically nearby.

Weirdly, I think of the Delaware shore down to Rehoboth as more a part of the Philly Metro, despite being geographically much further away than Wilmington. Is Rehoboth even officially in the Philly Metro?

Is it because, generally speaking, Philadelphians don't spend a hell of a lot of time in Wilmington but do spend time down the shore?

[Jawnadelphia]

This born/bred Delawarean, and former City of Wilmington resident, until finally moving to Philly a few years ago, says that people from the First State (who grew up/live there), first few themselves as that - being from Delaware-Delawareans. But our sports fan loyalty is passionately Philadelphia, it's as "Philly" as any of the Philly burbs are, all of our media is Philly -- radio/TV, sure there's local Delaware stations -- but when I woke up every morning as a kid... Action News was on the TV in the kitchen and WIP on the radio. I love the Philly teams with a red hot fervor. So it's very ....brotherly.... overall, the relationship between northern Delaware and Philly.

Wilmington has many similarities to Philly, rowhouses, a rich old history, cultural diversity, etc etc. Very connected to Philly, but also the biggest city of another state. So separate, but tied together -- if that makes any sense.

As far as the beaches go, Delawareans call em' beaches ..."going to the beach" ...NOT! "going down the shore" as Philly people say. There's actually a much bigger DC metro presence at the Delaware beaches in the summer than Philly. But that's the vacationers (esp. the gay-lesbian community from DC come down to Rehoboth in droves). A lot of people living down at the Delaware beaches year-round are people from New Castle County who relocated and/or retired to the beaches and surrounding area. So overall, there's still a strong Philly feel, for instance, the local TV affiliates are still Philly stations, etc.

[domodeez]

As someone who lived in Philly for 8-9 years and has now lived in Wilmington for the past 5, I've been wanting to ask this for a while too. Keep the responses coming! Very interesting to read.

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by Nomad9

This question has been on my mind for a while since I’m new to the area. How do those of you in the Philly metro view Wilmington and New Castly Co.? A satellite city? Edge city? Suburb? Separate area entirely?

It seems very culturally and physically (the built environment) similar to Philly, but it still feels completely independent. If I lived 30 miles from Dallas, Atlanta, DC, etc. and within the same MSA, I’d probably say that I’m from the “[Dallas/etc] area,” even if I were in an otherwise established town. However, I don’t catch myself saying that here—instead I say “Wilmington” or “Delaware.” It feels more like a separate metro bordering another, much larger metro, rather than feeling like it’s part of the same MSA. Maybe that’s because Wilmington is an old and historic city in its own right and because it’s the largest city in a different state.

Anyway, just curious how others view Wilmington in relation to Philly/the metro area generally. It seems uniquely situated to me.

This is the kind of question where to me it would seem that you could get different answers to how people view things. As mentioned by other people above, Wilmington is very similar to Philly but also different in ways mentioned above. I personally view Wilmington as it's own city in the same general metro as Philly, but separate in it's own ways. When you look at most metros, most other cities in metros rely on the "big city" for pretty much everything (transportation, offices, news, etc). While there are some things Wilmington relies on Philly for (airport, news), Wilmington is kind of it's own city that can function on its own (It has it's own major train station (most big cities don't even have one), own fantastic (but not as good as before) offices here, and it has a heck of a skyline for a city its size. So to me, Wilmington is it's own city in the same metro!

[iamrobk]

I grew up in eastern Montco and live in Philly now, and I've always considered Wilmington to be similar to Trenton, essentially a separate small city/metro area that just happens to be geographically close to Philly. That said, I have some friends who grew up in Delco and they would go to Delaware regularly to do shopping/etc. so I suspect they would feel differently, and I suspect people who grew up in lower Bucks would feel differently about Trenton.

[Jawnadelphia]

To recap a busy week for Buccini/Pollin Group and Wilmington:

1) 76ers Fieldhouse near the Christina River/Wilmington Riverfront.

2) Looks like the Rockford Falls Project is on. Absolutely beautiful area.

http://www.bpgsconstruction.com/watc...ge-demolition/

The specs:
"Construction consists of 346 units, 637 parking spaces, 32 townhomes and 1 structured parking garage
Located on scenic Brandywine River
Four 4-story buildings, one 3-story building and a 2-level parking garage
7,455 SF of luxury amenity space including a state-of-the-art fitness center, resident lounge area and business center
Features multiple outdoor amenity areas and a resort-style swimming pool"

http://www.bpgsconstruction.com/prop...ockford-falls/

3) 618 MKT restoration and new apartments - Market Street, Downtown Wilmington


"Wilmington-based developer, The Buccini/Pollin Group, Inc. (BPG), and BPGS Construction (BPGS) are pleased to reveal the exquisite transformation of 2 East 7th Street back to its former building façade dating back to 1895. With only photographs as historical building data, The BPGS Construction team worked diligently to restore the building to its glory days when it housed a Snellenburg’s department store at the turn of the 20th century, complete with a standing seam metal roof and 13-foot copper finial."

http://www.bpgsconstruction.com/2-ea...tch-the-video/

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

I grew up in eastern Montco and live in Philly now, and I've always considered Wilmington to be similar to Trenton, essentially a separate small city/metro area that just happens to be geographically close to Philly. That said, I have some friends who grew up in Delco and they would go to Delaware regularly to do shopping/etc. so I suspect they would feel differently, and I suspect people who grew up in lower Bucks would feel differently about Trenton.

I feel the same way about Chester: it's definitely part of the Philly area, but it feels like its own city. It is Delco's largest city, both by population and land area (?). It also has an in-tact downtown area, although Avenue of the States has historically looked bombed-out until recently.

In terms of Wilmington, I have always thought of it as part of the region, yet with its own distinct identity. Before the regional identity solidified, Wilmington was in its own sphere of influence as Delaware's largest city. Now, Philadelphia anchors an MSA and CSA that includes PA, NJ, DE, and MD. This doesn't detract from the fact that Wilmington offers its own downtown area, skyscrapers, cultural institutions, and own unique history.

[jslice]

That Rockford Falls project is out of this world. That area by the art museum can go toe-to-toe with any area in the northeast-midatlantic in terms of beauty and charm. Close to restaurants & nightlife in Trolley, beautiful neighborhoods nearby, close to Greenville & both the alapocas park and brandywine park are incredible. That is going to be a gem of a project.

[Nomad9]

Interesting responses, thanks for the input. I’ve felt a similar vibe.

Originally Posted by jslice

That Rockford Falls project is out of this world. That area by the art museum can go toe-to-toe with any area in the northeast-midatlantic in terms of beauty and charm. Close to restaurants & nightlife in Trolley, beautiful neighborhoods nearby, close to Greenville & both the alapocas park and brandywine park are incredible. That is going to be a gem of a project.

As someone who’s fortunate to live in that immediate area, I agree 100%! Rockford Park; the Brandywine greenway; the homes; walking distance to decent bars and restaurants in a dense and vibrant (and safe) neighborhood; biking distance to downtown Wilmington; 30-40 min drive to Philly; short drive north to DE chateau country and the PA countryside. It’s a beautiful and very convenient place to live. Wilmington has its issues for sure, but I feel like it’s a criminally underrated area (which I suppose happens in the shadow of all the great cities nearby).

Anyway, yes, that project seems pretty huge. It’ll be fun to watch it rise from across the river.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

I grew up in eastern Montco and live in Philly now, and I've always considered Wilmington to be similar to Trenton, essentially a separate small city/metro area that just happens to be geographically close to Philly. That said, I have some friends who grew up in Delco and they would go to Delaware regularly to do shopping/etc. so I suspect they would feel differently, and I suspect people who grew up in lower Bucks would feel differently about Trenton.

I grew up in Upper Chichester (SW Delco). I had friends who lived in neighborhoods in Upper Chichester who's backyard neighbors lived in Delaware. Literally, the house behind them was a different state. Ditto for Garnet Valley, Chadds Ford, etc.

Point being, I'd say North Wilmington and Southern Chester County and SW Delco function as their own sort of sub-zone within the metro, roughly going from the Alopocas Cut Off north of Wilmington up through RT 1 in PA. There is a ton of fluidity between the towns there and they look and feel similar to one another. There really isn't a difference between Hockessin (DE) & Kennett Square (PA). Or Montchanin (DE) and Chadds Ford (PA).

I went to public high school in Delaware County. But my neighbors who went to catholic school largely went to Salesianum, Padua, and Archmere in Delaware, not Ohara in Delco. Kids who went to elite private schools went to Wilmington Friends & Tatnall, not the cluster of schools along the Main Line. My first job was in a retail store on 202 in North Wilmington.

It's just very fluid...and while we recognized some minor differences between us, it was really intangible. The only difference I'd say, is that if you drive through a new McMansion-y development in Garnet Valley or Unionville or Kennett Square, you are more likely to see Delaware license plates on the cars in the drive ways of the new homes than you are PA plates on a car if you drive through a similar development in Delaware. There is a perception that the public schools in PA are better than they are in Delaware (right wrong or indifferent), and thus, I think there is a significant amount of inmigration from northern Delaware when families have kids that get to school age. Conversely, when people in that zone get older and their kids are out of school, many of them move to Delaware and the Delaware Beaches.

[3rd&Brown]

Here are a few interesting examples of where the state line goes not only between properties, but in some cases, through the middle of a house:


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ga...!4d-75.4985521

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ga...!4d-75.4985521

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ga...!4d-75.4985521

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ga...!4d-75.4985521

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ga...!4d-75.4985521

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ga...!4d-75.4985521

[Skyscraper.Phanatic]

I guess they would pro-rate the taxes based on % of property in that state. But how would they register to vote? -- Interesting --

[EastSideHBG]

Phoenixville seeks state funding for local projects

PHOENIXVILLE >> Elected officials are seeking support to obtain funding to support the Phoenixville Fire Station and Recreation Center, and the Phoenixville Multi-Modal Transit Center.

Reps. Warren Kampf R-157th Dist., and Becky Corbin, R-155th Dist., have requested that House leadership support these two projects that would benefit Phoenixville with funding through the Redevelopment Assistance Capital Program. This is a bipartisan effort also supported by Sen. Andrew Dinniman, D-19th Dist.

“Over the last 20 years, the borough of Phoenixville has undergone very significant changes and growth,” Kampf said. “Population has increased, the downtown bustles with retail, restaurants and new multi-family developments, and what was once a struggling former manufacturing town has transformed itself.”

Such growth has created congestion and an increased demand for public safety services. At the same time the needs of the area’s older population have increased.

“As Phoenixville has transformed into a thriving suburban town that serves residents from throughout the region, the need for capital improvements has increased,” Corbin said. “The Phoenixville Fire Department is in serious need of a new building given that its current home is more than one hundred years old. A multi-modal center with additional parking would alleviate some of the congestion and parking problems residents, merchants, and commuters face.”

http://www.timesherald.com/general-n...local-projects

[Philly-Drew]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Here are a few interesting examples of where the state line goes not only between properties, but in some cases, through the middle of a house:


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ga...!4d-75.4985521

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ga...!4d-75.4985521

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ga...!4d-75.4985521

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ga...!4d-75.4985521

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ga...!4d-75.4985521

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ga...!4d-75.4985521

Damn! Can you imagine you are in PA in your kitchen but when you walk into your living room you are in Delaware? I never thought of that.

Anyway, I live in Philadelphia and have always thought of Wilmington as being part of the Philadelphia metro area, but with its own unique identity.

I felt the same way about Grapevine TX. It’s very close to Dallas and also has it’s own unique identity.

[Mr Saturn64]

I often think of Wilmington as though it were its own little metro area, but I realize it is indeed in the Philly area. Perhaps it's because it's in Delaware. I often think of it as being further away than it is.

[domodeez]

Originally Posted by domodeez

Wilmington's 618 Market restoration is (almost) a wrap




http://www.bpgsconstruction.com/2-ea...tch-the-video/

A nice little touch that was added to this project last week: string lights over the parking lot between two BPG apartment buildings.