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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2014, 11:41 PM
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LOL@this.

all the ideas + time constraint + having to literally waste time driving to Vegas + trying to spend "a little time in Vegas" = you will NOT see all of the following; metro Phoenix urban/natural sights, Sedona, Flagstaff, Grand Canyon, ghost town etc just no way. Cross some of those off

Also, after making my first trip to Bisbee AZ - I'd recommend the drive south through Tucson, via Benson and the famous Kartchner Caverns allowing you to cross through Tombstone and end in Bisbee. A totally different vibe than northern AZ and I personally loved it - beautiful weather, nicer people and I'd pick Bisbee over Jerome any day! BUT your trip is in the total opposite direction!

One could easily spend a month traveling Arizona!
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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2014, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by KEVINphx View Post
LOL@this.

all the ideas + time constraint + having to literally waste time driving to Vegas + trying to spend "a little time in Vegas" = you will NOT see all of the following; metro Phoenix urban/natural sights, Sedona, Flagstaff, Grand Canyon, ghost town etc just no way. Cross some of those off

Also, after making my first trip to Bisbee AZ - I'd recommend the drive south through Tucson, via Benson and the famous Kartchner Caverns allowing you to cross through Tombstone and end in Bisbee. A totally different vibe than northern AZ and I personally loved it - beautiful weather, nicer people and I'd pick Bisbee over Jerome any day! BUT your trip is in the total opposite direction!

One could easily spend a month traveling Arizona!
Totally agree on your feelings about SE Arizona. It is my favorite part of the state. Love Bisbee so much. So authentic and yes, great people. Also driving through wine country such as Elgin, Sonoita and Patagonia. Not to mention Tubac and Tumacacori, too!
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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2014, 3:13 AM
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Originally Posted by KEVINphx View Post
LOL@this.

all the ideas + time constraint + having to literally waste time driving to Vegas + trying to spend "a little time in Vegas" = you will NOT see all of the following; metro Phoenix urban/natural sights, Sedona, Flagstaff, Grand Canyon, ghost town etc just no way. Cross some of those off

Also, after making my first trip to Bisbee AZ - I'd recommend the drive south through Tucson, via Benson and the famous Kartchner Caverns allowing you to cross through Tombstone and end in Bisbee. A totally different vibe than northern AZ and I personally loved it - beautiful weather, nicer people and I'd pick Bisbee over Jerome any day! BUT your trip is in the total opposite direction!

One could easily spend a month traveling Arizona!
Bisbee is an underrated AZ city. The amount of historical structures still existing is awesome. Ive camped outside of Naco (AZ side). Did a mine tour in Bisbee, went to the OK Corral in Tombstone, Titon II launch sites, have gone to Kitt Peak observatory, went to the caverns east of Tucson (forgot the name).

Love Southern AZ. Temperate climate, fun topography. Interesting history.
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  #24  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2014, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by KEVINphx View Post
LOL@this.

all the ideas + time constraint + having to literally waste time driving to Vegas + trying to spend "a little time in Vegas" = you will NOT see all of the following; metro Phoenix urban/natural sights, Sedona, Flagstaff, Grand Canyon, ghost town etc just no way. Cross some of those off

Also, after making my first trip to Bisbee AZ - I'd recommend the drive south through Tucson, via Benson and the famous Kartchner Caverns allowing you to cross through Tombstone and end in Bisbee. A totally different vibe than northern AZ and I personally loved it - beautiful weather, nicer people and I'd pick Bisbee over Jerome any day! BUT your trip is in the total opposite direction!

One could easily spend a month traveling Arizona!
I think I get the last laugh. I got in almost everything I wanted to do. Here's what I did:

I walked around Downtown Phoenix



I went inside the capitol building



I walked around Old Town Scottsdale



I saw a desert sunset, from the Salt River Indian Reservation



I got a sliver of Route 66 architecture in Flagstaff



I walked around Flagstaff





I drove through Coconino National Forest



I saw the Grand Canyon





... including the sunset



I went out for the night in Las Vegas



I also took a couple pictures along the Strip



I saw Hoover Dam



I didn't get to Jerome, but I stopped in what is also kind of a ghost town: Chloride



I saw saguaros and joshua trees



I did all this while devoting an entire game to the Eagles game in Glendale



I didn't get to see Sedona in person, but I saw it from the plane



I also flew over the Grand Canyon




All in all, it was a great trip, and I showed that it can all be done. You are right, though, that I could spend a month seeing the state. There's still other stuff that I want to do if I get a chance to go back: Monument Valley, more Route 66 architecture, hike down the Grand Canyon, see more ghost towns, see Tombstone, Bisbee, et al, walk around Tucson, see petroglyphs, see more of the Valley, etc.
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  #25  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2014, 7:06 PM
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Sounds good! I wish you could have gone Sedona to Flagstaff via 89A. And there are a couple better places (IMO) than Flagstaff, Cloride, and Old Town Scottsdale (insert Prescott, Jerome, and Mill Avenue). But that's splitting hairs. And if you could have hiked to the top of Camelback Mountain, I think you would have liked it, but glad you mostly got to do what you wanted. Except see an Eagles win, but it was a damn exciting game!

I'd be interested in more of your comments/outsider perspectives on the Phoenix area (of course) and the state you saw in general. The City and state get a really bad rap on SSP. Some of it warranted, some of it just continuation of stereotypes.
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  #26  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2014, 12:03 AM
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Awesome trip! Did you stay at Talking Stick Resort in the reservation?
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2014, 4:44 AM
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Sounds good! I wish you could have gone Sedona to Flagstaff via 89A. And there are a couple better places (IMO) than Flagstaff, Cloride, and Old Town Scottsdale (insert Prescott, Jerome, and Mill Avenue). But that's splitting hairs. And if you could have hiked to the top of Camelback Mountain, I think you would have liked it, but glad you mostly got to do what you wanted. Except see an Eagles win, but it was a damn exciting game!

I'd be interested in more of your comments/outsider perspectives on the Phoenix area (of course) and the state you saw in general. The City and state get a really bad rap on SSP. Some of it warranted, some of it just continuation of stereotypes.
I kept note of some of my thoughts while on the trip. I'll post them later on. I wish I could've done Sedona, but I drove through to Flagstaff at night. I was hoping to catch the sunset there, but I spent too much time in Phoenix and Scottsdale, and getting the rental car isn't as easy as it is in other airports, like Orlando.

Sedona/Oak Creek Canyon, Prescott, Jerome or Oatman or somewhere else, and Tempe are on my list of places to see.

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Awesome trip! Did you stay at Talking Stick Resort in the reservation?
I stayed at a cheap hotel in Scottsdale. The hotel was just a place to sleep and shower. If it's not an all-out dump, I prefer to save my money and use it elsewhere, like on drinks. Staying in Scottsdale, and the pregames and parties for Eagles fans in Scottsdale, was the reason for seeing Old Town rather than Mill Avenue in Tempe, or Mesa's historic center, etc.
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  #28  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2014, 3:21 PM
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Here's some comments from my trip, for those that want the viewpoint of an outsider, or can answer questions:

~ Is there a name for the Phoenix metro area, besides "Valley of the Sun"?
~ I love that Arizona is more diverse than I originally thought. I knew that there was the Sonoran desert in the southern part of the state, and there is desert in the northern part of the state (Monument Valley, Meteor Crater area, Lake Mead area, etc). Even though I saw on the map that there are national forests in the central part of the state, I didn't really expect regular forests, like you might imagine in Colorado or something. Flagstaff is a mountain town kind of in the forest; it's not a desert town that happens to be really high up where it's cooler temperatures.
~ I wanted to buy a Northern Arizona University shirt for myself, or a Christmas present. I went to a store in Downtown Flagstaff, next to the Downtown Diner. The sign said that they open by noon, or when they feel like it, but you can text the owner if you want something off-hours. I was in town in the morning, but leaving for the Grand Canyon, so a place not open at 9 or 10 was bizarre to me. It's definitely not an East Coast kind of thing. Anyway, I texted the woman, but she was at her son's school play, so she wouldn't be there before I left. It's nice to put family first, which is also not common, but as someone used to always working and always finding time to work, it was
~ Although I needed to drive from Phoenix to Flagstaff at night, since I spent the day exploring Phoenix and Scottsdale, I wish I could've had more time, or more sunlight, to see the scenery on that drive. I wish I had time to drive through Sedona, too. Maybe another time I can see the pinelands in the light.
~ On the note of the drive up to Flagstaff, it's crazy how it's basically all uphill. Conversely, it's almost all downhill from the Grand Canyon (and Flagstaff, I'm assuming) to Las Vegas.
~ Driving from the Grand Canyon to Las Vegas, it was cool that there were no towns, so you could see where the Interstate was, because of the string of headlights and taillights. Also, It was a little disturbing, as an easterner, to see a sign saying that there were no services at any exits for the next 56 miles. There were exits on the way, which I didn't expect, but they apparently lead to nowhere.
~ You can see how the desert changes on US 93 south of Kingman and I-40. It wasn't that far south of the Interstate where the change happens. I'm guessing it's where the Mojave Desert becomes the Sonoran Desert. Is there a map delineating these borders?
~ In the Phoenix area, it was strange to see the left turn green signals come after the straight green lights. It's definitely not that way here, and I wonder if it's that way anywhere else.
~ It's strange to think that all of these spring training sites are all in one metro area. It's spread out in Florida (although concentrated in the Tampa Bay area and the Treasure Coast or Gold Coast), and it used to be spread out in Arizona, but now the Arizona sites are all within an hour of each other. While there, I saw the sites for the Diamondbacks/Rockies, Brewers, A's, and was near the Giants complex.
~ Is it normal to really like the desert? The desert is nature's dirt lot, in a way.
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2014, 4:54 PM
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1. That's the name, although it's usually shortened even more to "The Valley".

2. The Mogollon Rim (big swath of N. Arizona) is all forest. I think it's the largest stand of Ponderosa Pines in the world. You would have loved the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. Same views as where you went, but it's in the forest with Aspen and pines and everything. It takes way longer to get there than the South Rim, but it's way less visited by tourists.

3. I-17 from Phoenix to Flagstaff is awesome (even more so if you take a jaunt through Sedona and Oak Creek Canyon via 89A). The high Sonoran Desert is beautiful, the vistas are amazing, you change from desert to forest, and some of the "scenic views" turn offs would have been awesome for an easterner.

4. The distances are certainly long and the population is definitely sparser in the rural areas of the west. I always hated driving as a kid seeing nothing. Now I think it's really cool.

5. You're right about the change in desert. North of Kingman through to Las Vegas the flora and fauna is more sparse as compared to the Sonoran Desert. You can probably see a map on wikipedia or something. But even that might not tell the whole picture, as the high Sonoran Desert is different from the low Sonoran Desert.

6. Scottsdale is the only City in the Phoenix area with lagging green left turn arrows (for the most part). Tucson also has them.

7. A lot of people love the desert, especially the Sonoran Desert. It has some amazing sunsets and a feeling of openness. Plus, the Sonoran Desert is actually very "lush" compared to other deserts. I think you would have loved a hike to get out and see that it's more than scrub brush and sand. It's a seriously dense ecosystem with some of the most unique plants and animals in the world. You could read more about it, and on shows like "Planet Earth" they've covered it. But I really like the desert.

Any thoughts on downtown Phoenix? And did you get to drive through the northern part of downtown and through the historic hoods of central Phoenix?
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  #30  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2014, 1:32 AM
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2. The Mogollon Rim (big swath of N. Arizona) is all forest. I think it's the largest stand of Ponderosa Pines in the world. You would have loved the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. Same views as where you went, but it's in the forest with Aspen and pines and everything. It takes way longer to get there than the South Rim, but it's way less visited by tourists.
Do you know where the Ponderosa pine extends to? Is it in the Coconino National Forest northwest of Flagstaff?



What is the type of tree on the south rim, seen here after the entrance?



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Any thoughts on downtown Phoenix? And did you get to drive through the northern part of downtown and through the historic hoods of central Phoenix?
Downtown Phoenix wasn't that bad. It was a little small, but that’s to be expected of a Sun Belt city. Phoenix isn’t necessarily a hub of business, either, like Miami is a hub for business between the US and Latin America. The warehouse district was bigger than I expected. I saw a little bit of that. I saw a little bit of Woodland, near the capitol, and some of the neighborhood on the east side (not sure what it’s called), but that was it. Woodland was clearly lower class or lower middle class, and was nothing special. It’s no different than Elsmere, a bungalow streetcar suburb here in Delaware that is a little grungy, if not ghetto. The difference would be the desert landscaping, obviously.

Some more observations:

~ I like Northeast/Midwest cities for work. I like a city where you actually work, and you use your free time to relax. Phoenix definitely feels like a city where there is no work to be done. It's a city that revolves around pleasure and partying. Here, it feels like the weekend is a break between weeks at work. There, and places like Las Vegas, it feels like weeks are breaks between weekends.
~ I set a new personal record for highest elevation on the ground. A nice thing about Arizona is that they mark the elevations by 1,000 feet with a road sign. On US 180 from Flagstaff to Valle and the Grand Canyon, a little before you descend into the desert (near Red Mountain?), the high point of elevation is 8,046 feet, which is easily the highest up I’ve been on land. I think the next highest was the valley floor in Las Vegas, at ~3,000 feet, or maybe the the top of a mountain in the Appalachians (Bloss Mountain in the Allegheny Range in Tioga County, Pennsylvania, is ~2,148 feet).
~ Scottsdale reminds me of a desert version of Clearwater. I was in the Tampa Bay area last year for an Eagles game, and stayed most of the time in Pinellas County. There, you see anomalies like a strip club next to a library, or a fancy restaurant next to a trailer park. It’s not as dramatic, but the way the city developed is very random; for instance, on Camelback Road in Downtown, you have a high-end mall with valet service next to a midrise office building, which itself is next to a motel, which is next to a bank branch or other low-rise suburban arterial commercial stuff. Phoenix, on the other hand, has evolved like an older city. There’s a poor Black neighborhood east of Downtown, which is like my city of Wilmington, and like several other cities. There’s wealthier neighborhoods in some directions, and wealthy development is continuing out in those same directions.
~ What’s the farthest that people commute to work from? Are there a lot of people that live in, say, Wickenburg and commute to Phoenix for work? Things are getting crazy here, with people living in the Poconos/NE Pennsylvania (Stroudsburg, Wilkes-Barre, etc) and commute to New York City, because of the lower land prices in Pennsylvania. People live in the eastern Lancaster suburbs and commute to Philadelphia. Even with a small city like Wilmington, people live in Smyrna or Dover, and other places in northern Kent County.
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  #31  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2014, 6:19 PM
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Yeah, your picture shows ponderosa pines. I'm pretty sure most of the forests of northern Arizona are Ponderosa Pines (except a few areas with various other types of pines, but I'm not 100% certain).

The other historic neighborhood you were in was probably Garfield (just ENE of downtown). Those two areas are definitely the more run down historic neighborhoods, in addition to south Phoenix (or just demolished altogether), but they have some pretty neat little areas (for a young city like phoenix). Parts of them are seeing some nice renaissance though. Too bad you didn't have a chance to get more to the northern historic areas, but for you it wouldn't be that big of a deal probably, other than the fact that most people wouldn't associate Phoenix with historic streetcar-type hoods, since it's pretty common around the country.

I can kind of get what you are saying with regards to work/pleasure. I have never been back east, but I was in Chicago and it felt more business-y for sure.

People definitely commute from the far flung suburbs (and way out there communities like Wickenburg, Maricopa, Florence, etc.), but I don't know how prevalent it is. I know people also commute to work between Tucson and Phoenix. Which to me is crazy, but it happens.
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  #32  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 10:55 PM
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Map of forested areas - awesome to see you had a great trip! I love Arizona - here are a couple more photos of our forested areas (sorry to spam your thread)




Arizona forests above about 8,000 feet typically are a mix-fir type with aspen mixed in as well; alpine. There are swaths of forest on the Apache White Mountain Indian Res. for example that are nearly totally various fir varieties spotted with aspen and ponderosa!

here are just a couple of my photos from trips to other forested areas of the state;

Hawley Lake on WMAIR


Oak Creek Canyon in October one year. . .

Lockett Meadow Aspen in Fall (8,600 feet)

San Francisco Peaks by Flagstaff (above 10,000)

Reservation Lake (9,200 feet +)



66 degrees at 2:00 pm on a SUNNY August day in Arizona - I'm sure it was 40-50 degrees HOTTER back home in Phoenix. . .

Last edited by KEVINphx; Nov 4, 2014 at 11:05 PM.
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  #33  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 5:01 AM
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Thanks for the responses! Those pictures aren't spam. I'm still on a high from my trip, and even though I love the water (former swimmer, love to go to the beach, love maritime places and history, etc), the desert and mountains are so foreign to me that I'm in love with those things too. Arizona has been a mystical place to me every since being out went for the first time in 2005 in Las Vegas. To finally go has been great. I really had a bucket list plan to just drive around and see a bunch (10-12) places in the state, like the Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Meteor Crater, the plain old desert, etc. To finally actually see some of those places was wonderful. I went on Amazon and bought a few cheap books because I want to keep learning about the state. So, with that in mind, keep feeding me information! I'll probably add some comments as they pop up in my head while the trip is fresh.

I think I saw some of those aspen on the drive from Flagstaff to Valle, as you get up past Agassiz Peak and climb up towards 8,000 feet. I also remembered an intersection in my area where the left turn green lights follow the straight green lights. We have that here for Polly Drummond Hill Road/Red Mill Road crosses Capitol Trail.

Last edited by xzmattzx; Nov 5, 2014 at 5:38 AM.
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  #34  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 5:24 AM
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6. Scottsdale is the only City in the Phoenix area with lagging green left turn arrows (for the most part). Tucson also has them.
Gilbert and Goodyear do too.
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  #35  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2014, 2:07 PM
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Thanks for the responses! Those pictures aren't spam. I'm still on a high from my trip, and even though I love the water (former swimmer, love to go to the beach, love maritime places and history, etc), the desert and mountains are so foreign to me that I'm in love with those things too. Arizona has been a mystical place to me every since being out went for the first time in 2005 in Las Vegas. To finally go has been great. I really had a bucket list plan to just drive around and see a bunch (10-12) places in the state, like the Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Meteor Crater, the plain old desert, etc. To finally actually see some of those places was wonderful. I went on Amazon and bought a few cheap books because I want to keep learning about the state. So, with that in mind, keep feeding me information! I'll probably add some comments as they pop up in my head while the trip is fresh.

I think I saw some of those aspen on the drive from Flagstaff to Valle, as you get up past Agassiz Peak and climb up towards 8,000 feet. I also remembered an intersection in my area where the left turn green lights follow the straight green lights. We have that here for Polly Drummond Hill Road/Red Mill Road crosses Capitol Trail.
Awesome :-D I guess growing up here took a lot of the mystery out of it for me but I didn't have a good appreciation for it all until I was older - now I am so very proud to be from Arizona (aside from politics)
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  #36  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2014, 6:36 PM
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Makes sense that it is not as wondrous for you as for me. It would be like someone from Phoenix coming to Delaware or some other place on the East Coast and seeing water everywhere: rivers, creeks, the ocean, bays, marshland, etc.


What kind of geography jobs are out there? I see stuff for the Salt River Project, but are there any other places, public or private, worth seeing if positions are available?
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  #37  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2014, 6:28 AM
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The National Parks and Forests, perhaps?
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  #38  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 4:44 PM
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I'm going to keep this thread going a little bit longer. I have a few more questions and observations:

~ Definitely not used to covered parking in parking lots, which seem to be premium spots. It makes sense, though, to cover parking spots in the desert sun.
~ While solar energy isn't as efficient as other forms of energy, why aren't solar panels put on these roofs for covered parking spots? If it's just a metal roof to provide shade, solar panels on top would absorb that same sunlight that the roof provides shade for. Energy produced during that time would likely be used right then, because if someone is parking during the day and needing that shade, then they are in the relevant building using energy, like air conditioning.
~ When is Interstate 11 going to be finished? It looks like it's divided highway almost the entire way already. What will be done in spots where there's towns, like Wickenburg and Wikieup between the Phoenix area and Kingman, and then Kingman itself, and Dolan Springs and Chloride north of Kingman?
~ What is done with any saguaros that would be in the right-of-way for the I-11 construction? They take 100 years to grow, and don't grow everywhere, but they have big root systems, it seems. Would they be saved and moved somewhere else? Would they be cut down?
~ Besides Downtown/"Waterfront" (a joke compared to waterfronts in the eastern US and elsewhere, no offense) and Old Town, what other neighborhoods are there in Scottsdale? Is it all considered suburbia after that, or are there general areas? Other than historic signs for Scottsdale Estates, which I saw along Indian School Road, it just seemed like it was all regular stuff, but I obviously don't know the culture of any places big or small.
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  #39  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 5:18 PM
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I'm going to keep this thread going a little bit longer. I have a few more questions and observations:

~ Definitely not used to covered parking in parking lots, which seem to be premium spots. It makes sense, though, to cover parking spots in the desert sun.
~ While solar energy isn't as efficient as other forms of energy, why aren't solar panels put on these roofs for covered parking spots? If it's just a metal roof to provide shade, solar panels on top would absorb that same sunlight that the roof provides shade for. Energy produced during that time would likely be used right then, because if someone is parking during the day and needing that shade, then they are in the relevant building using energy, like air conditioning.
~ When is Interstate 11 going to be finished? It looks like it's divided highway almost the entire way already. What will be done in spots where there's towns, like Wickenburg and Wikieup between the Phoenix area and Kingman, and then Kingman itself, and Dolan Springs and Chloride north of Kingman?
~ What is done with any saguaros that would be in the right-of-way for the I-11 construction? They take 100 years to grow, and don't grow everywhere, but they have big root systems, it seems. Would they be saved and moved somewhere else? Would they be cut down?
~ Besides Downtown/"Waterfront" (a joke compared to waterfronts in the eastern US and elsewhere, no offense) and Old Town, what other neighborhoods are there in Scottsdale? Is it all considered suburbia after that, or are there general areas? Other than historic signs for Scottsdale Estates, which I saw along Indian School Road, it just seemed like it was all regular stuff, but I obviously don't know the culture of any places big or small.
People normally don't put solar panels on top of parking because of cost. Most developers in the Phoenix area are a lot more frugal (although cheap bastards would be a better word choice) than those in the East Coast. There are exceptions though. ASU has some great solar power installation above their parking lots in Tempe.

Saguaros normally get relocated. Although the survival percentage is quite low. Unless they have a good irrigation system to make up for the loss of root structure, the outcome ends up being a dead saguaro after a few years.

And yeah, most of Scottsdale can be considered suburbia. There are some older neighborhoods around downtown, but the majority of the city (like most of the valley) started to grow in the 50's onward.
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  #40  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2014, 5:35 AM
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The first of a few photothreads:

Scottsdale pictures
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