Transit Fantasies

[xd_1771]

When you think about it, drivers aren't enthusiastic about playing that role of being the mediator, at the potential expense of their safety. So I don't think we should be expecting that of drivers to begin with.

These days, modern buses have CCTV cameras that to an extent could take care of the monitoring aspect. Though I can understand why you'd want to up the amount of transit security officers (at cost) to make up for the lack of drivers on buses. SkyTrain is a fast, fixed system where you can deploy an officer as needed quickly if there's an incident on a train. Imagine if one of these driverless buses were used on the outskirts of Langley or Aldergrove... you wouldn't have the same flexibility.

On the topic of making transportation driverless, it does go to show why keeping things full-on driverless may be more suitable for taxis/private vehicles, as that will give users full privacy. There would obviously be even more efficiency with a driverless bus, but integrating the transit network with driverless, personal taxis (as long as we can bring their cost down and have them operated as part of the transit network) would still be relatively efficient compared to the status quo.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

When you think about it, drivers aren't enthusiastic about playing that role of being the mediator, at the potential expense of their safety. So I don't think we should be expecting that of drivers to begin with.

I totally agree with this, but it will be interesting to see how the union changes their tune when faced with being replaced.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

When you think about it, drivers aren't enthusiastic about playing that role of being the mediator, at the potential expense of their safety. So I don't think we should be expecting that of drivers to begin with.

These days, modern buses have CCTV cameras that to an extent could take care of the monitoring aspect. Though I can understand why you'd want to up the amount of transit security officers (at cost) to make up for the lack of drivers on buses. SkyTrain is a fast, fixed system where you can deploy an officer as needed quickly if there's an incident on a train. Imagine if one of these driverless buses were used on the outskirts of Langley or Aldergrove... you wouldn't have the same flexibility.

On the topic of making transportation driverless, it does go to show why keeping things full-on driverless may be more suitable for taxis/private vehicles, as that will give users full privacy. There would obviously be even more efficiency with a driverless bus, but integrating the transit network with driverless, personal taxis (as long as we can bring their cost down and have them operated as part of the transit network) would still be relatively efficient compared to the status quo.

I'm kinda sitting the fence about it.

Like I think we should replace the "drivers" with driverless systems because that gives us more frequency (and in the long run, more safety in traffic.) But unlike the Skytrain (which is relatively safe to begin with) a bus has the potential to be a crime target, and the way fares are collected would have to act more like a faregate. However I think the existing Transit police isn't an efficient use of law enforcement officers. In many cases it would likely make more sense to have just have a regular security guard on routes with high fare evasion or delays from confrontations.

On the other hand, "Translink" running a signalling system for Buses that Taxi/Uber/Private cars can utilize to gain more efficiency and safety would likely be the part that the Transit agency provides. Uber could integrate into the transit system so that when you get to the point the bus doesn't reach, the driverless Uber car takes you that last mile.

Though what I'd expect is driverless buses to complement and not replace driver-driven buses. Like a driver will be every nth bus, where you can pay cash at the door, but the driverless buses would only accept the compass card and not open the door without tapping in.

[BCPhil]

Adoption rates of new sectors of technology have been rapid in recent decades. Computers, Internet, Cell phones.

But there is always a period where there is lag after initial excitement about the release. Computers come out, people who are familiar with the concept by them immidiaely, but then there is a slower uptake by the other 95% of the population until it hits a critical mass and becomes considered a household necessity. Internet is initially popular with people who like computers; everyone else doesn't see the necessity when they can just phone up a travel agent instead or head down to Radio Shack. Cell phones, same thing, most people don't see the need of making a call instantly when there are pay phones everywhere. After initial skeptisism of their use and need, people then buy them in droves. Heck, it took over 30 years for the fridge to be in every household.

However, none of those things really had a fear factor. I think too many people are going to be freaked out by driverless buses to let it happen anytime in the next couple decades. Most people are not going to be exposed to the tech because they won't want it or can't afford it. So that will lead to fear and suspicion of its use. Cell phones took around 20 years to get into 20% of households, and people weren't freaked out by the fact they could get calls to their hand anywhere they were. Driverless buses are going to freak people out.

We have had over 30 years of faultless driverless trains in Vancouver, yet around the world they are hard to find. There is a reluctant populace not eager for their implementation, and agencies are billions short to implement it. Nationally, the Americans are more than a decade behind in their federally mandated upgrade of their heavy rail signal systems (and that tech is even older).

These public trials are great, but they can't even make LRT driverless, and that only travels in 1 dimension. I'm sure it will happen, but I'm not holding my breath or planning long term construction projects around its possibility.

[sweetnhappy]

Hey everyone,

I've been working on my own fantasy transit map for some time. After discovering this forum (including this thread) I've made some revisions/additions. Some of the recent additions (Crosstown Line and North Shore Line specifically) are inspired by other maps posted here by Leftcoaster and gkz.

More details about the various lines, stations, etc. can be found below the map. Please note that most station names are purely speculative for ALL lines that are not currently or soon to be in service.

Updated version below: Version 2.4



Expo Line (SkyTrain, LIM)
- Reflects latest signage and other information available online (this forum and elsewhere) for when the Evergreen Extension opens in 2017
- Includes 2 possible stations at Boundary-Kingsway and Woodlands

Millennium Line (SkyTrain, LIM)
- Reflects information available online (this forum and elsewhere) for when the Evergreen Extension opens in 2017

West Coast Express (Commuter Rail)
- Unchanged - eastern terminus is still Mission City

Canada Line (SkyTrain, EMU)
- Unchanged
- Includes 4 possible stations at Queen Elizabeth-33rd, Dogwood-57th, YVR-Terminal 3, and Capstan Way

Evergreen Extension (Millennium Line) (SkyTrain, LIM)
- Reflects information available online (this forum and elsewhere) for when the Evergreen Extension opens in 2017
- Includes 2 possible stations at Queens and Falcon
- Extended from existing Lafarge Lake-Douglas terminus to Burke Mountain (Not currently planned)

• Proceeds elevated from Lafarge Lake-Douglas along Pinetree Way
• Turns east before David Avenue
• Has an elevated station at Pipeline Road next to Percy Perry stadium and Town Centre Park (Percy Perry)
• Continues elevated from Percy Perry along David Avenue
• Terminates at an elevated station at Coast Meridian Road (Burke Mountain), near a small shopping area

UBC Extension (Millennium Line) (SkyTrain, LIM)
- Current plans have this extension ending at Arbutus
- Continues elevated from current Millennium Line until just west of Great Northern Way where it will transition to at-grade then into a tunnel portal

• Starts turning south after the station at Great Northern Way
• Enters the tunnel portal before crossing Great Northern Way

- Continues tunneled from west of Great Northern Way to the beginning of University Boulevard

• Proceeds roughly along Prince Edward Street, under Guelph Park
• Turns west when approaching Broadway
• Has a subway station between Main Street and Kingsway on Broadway (Mount Pleasant)
• Continues to a subway station connected to the Canada Line at Broadway-City Hall station
• Continues to the subway stations at Oak Street (VGH-Oak), Granville Street (Granville-Broadway), Arbutus Street (currently planned terminus), and Macdonald Street (Kitsilano)
• Transitions from Broadway to West 10th at Alma Street, including a subway station (Jericho)
• Continues to the subway station at Sasamat Street (West Point Grey)

- Transitions through a tunnel portal to being elevated on University Boulevard
- Proceeds elevated to a station at Allison Road
- Terminates at an elevated station near UBC Loop Bay 13 on University Boulevard
- Line continues as Crosstown Line after UBC station

Please see my SkyTrain track diagram for more information on the above SkyTrain lines (where the lines exist and/or have relatively confirmed plans).

Fraser Extension (Expo Line) (SkyTrain, LIM)
- Continues elevated from King George along Fraser Highway to Langley Centre at 204th Street
- May have a partially at-grade section northwest of Clayton Centre due to 7% grade differential (exceeds 6% required for SkyTrain)
- Has elevated stations at 140th Street (Pattison), 152nd Street (Evergreen Mall), 160th Street (Fleetwood Centre), 166th Street, 68th Avenue (Clayton Centre), 64th Avenue, Willowbrook Drive, and 204th Street/Glover Road (Langley Centre)
- Elevated station at 200th Street is not a part of any current plans (since the Maple-Langley Line is not planned)
- Line continues as Aldergrove Line after Langley Centre
- The City of Surrey is currently pursuing LRT for this Extension

Guildford-White Rock Line (SkyTrain, LIM)
- Could be elevated or tunneled from Guildford Town Centre, along 104th Avenue, to somewhere east of Whalley Boulevard
- Continues elevated west then turns south, merging with the Expo Line just north of Surrey Central station
- Connects with Expo Line at Surrey Central station
- Continues elevated south, along King George Boulevard, where it will split from the Expo Line before King George station
- Continues elevated south, along King George Boulevard then 152nd Street, to White Rock Centre just north of North Bluff Road/16th Avenue
- Has elevated stations at 96th Avenue (Surrey Memorial), 88th Avenue (Bear Creek), 80th Avenue, 72nd Avenue (Newton Centre), 64th Avenue (Reedville Creek), north of the intersection at Highway 10, South Surrey Park & Ride at Highway 99 (South Surrey), 148th Street/32nd Avenue Diversion (Rosemary Heights), 24th Avenue (Sunnyside), and where 16a Avenue would be on 152nd Street (White Rock Centre)
- The City of Surrey is currently pursuing LRT for this Line

Poco-Ridge Meadows Extension (Millennium Line) (SkyTrain, LIM)
- Continues elevated from Coquitlam Central (spur built with room for additional platforms) to Cottonwood at 238b Street

• Passes over the existing rail tracks at Westwood Street
• Remains on southwest side of rail tracks until just after Port Coquitlam Centre station
• Crosses back over to the northeast side of the rail tracks
• Crosses the Pitt River near/next to existing rail track crossing (may be a SkyBridge-like bridge)

- Has elevated stations at Shaughnessy Street (Port Coquitlam Centre), Coast Meridian Road, Sherling Avenue, Harris Road (combined with existing WCE Pitt Meadows station to allow transfers), Golden Ears Way (Meadowtown Centre), 203rd Street (Westgate Centre), Laity Street (Laity-Hospital), Dover Street, McIntosh Avenue (Haney Place), 232nd Street, and 238b Street (Cottonwood)

• The last 2 stations mentioned may be well into the future as there is very little residential/commercial development in that area currently

Hastings Line (SkyTrain, LIM -- Revised in version 2.1)
- Begins elevated at a station just east of Duthie Avenue on Hastings Street (Burnaby Mountain)
- Proceeds elevated west along Hastings Street
- Has elevated stations at Sperling Avenue, Holdom Avenue (Holdom-Fellburn), Willingdon Avenue (intersects with North Shore Line's southeastern terminus and Crosstown Line's northeastern terminus), Gilmore Avenue (Burnaby Heights), Kootenay Loop at Kootenay Street, Renfrew Street (Renfrew-PNE), Nanaimo Street (Nanaimo-Pandora), McLean Drive, and Hawks Avenue (Strathcona)
- Enters a tunnel portal west of Hawks Avenue (Strathcona station)
- Proceeds tunneled under Hastings Street, then Beatty Street, and finally West Georgia Street

• Proceeds tunneled to Carrall Street
• Turns southwest and proceeds to intersect with Stadium-Chinatown station (below)
• Turns northwest, crossing under Beatty Street
• Proceeds tunneled under West Georgia Street and intersects with Vancouver City Centre station terminus (below)
• Line continues as North Shore Line after Vancouver City Centre, northwest under West Georgia Street

- Has subway stations at Main Street (Main Street-Chinatown), northeast of Beatty Street & Dunsmuir Street intersection (Stadium-Chinatown), and Granville Street & West Georgia Street intersection (Vancouver City Centre)

North Shore Line (SkyTrain, LIM -- Revised in version 2.1)
- Begins tunneled at Vancouver City Centre station

• Proceeds northwest under West Georgia Street
• Continues under Lions Gate Bridge Road/Stanley Park Causeway
• Transitions through a tunnel portal to being elevated before Stanley Park Drive in northern part of Stanley Park

- Has subway stations at Jervis Street, Denman Street, and North Lagoon Drive & Pipeline Road (Stanley Park-Aquarium)
- Continues elevated through to Hastings Street & Willingdon Avenue terminus

• Continues elevated north-northeast and crosses Burrard Inlet (exact details unknown - could be next to Lions Gate Bridge or possible as a second deck on the Lions Gate Bridge (refitted or replaced bridge)
• Turns northwest to join the rail line (north of the Lions Gate Wastewater Plant)
• Turns northeast just before crossing the Capilano River
• Proceeds northeast along/next to Capilano Pacific Trail/Spirit Trail
• Turns east and crosses Capilano River (second time)
• Proceeds along Marine Drive, then 3rd Street, Cotton Road, Main Street, and finally Dollarton Highway
• Turns south after Riverside Drive and crosses Burrard Inlet from Forester Street
• Joins with Willingdon Avenue
• Continues south to Hastings Street and intersects with Willingdon station terminus (above Hastings Line)
• Line continues as Crosstown Line after Willingdon, south above Willingdon Avenue

- Has elevated stations at Taylor Way (Park Royal Centre), Capilano Road (Grouse), Pemberton Avenue, Hanes Avenue (Capilano Mall), Lonsdale Avenue, Queensbury Avenue, Brooksbank Avenue, Phibbs Exchange at Highway 1 (Phibbs-University), Riverside Drive, and Hastings Street & Willingdon Avenue (Willingdon)

Crosstown Line (SkyTrain, LIM)
- Begins elevated at Willingdon station (above Hastings Line)
- Proceeds south along Willingdon Avenue
- Transitions through a tunnel portal near Sardis Street
- Has elevated stations at Napier Street, Lougheed Highway (Brentwood Town Centre), Still Creek Avenue, Goard Way (BCIT-Goard), and Moscrop Street
- Proceeds tunneled under Willingdon Avenue, then McKay Avenue, Imperial Street, 49th Avenue, Kerr Street, and 41st Avenue

• Turns slightly to the east at Grange Street
• Turns south-southwest at McKay Avenue near Kingsway
• Continues under McKay Avenue to Maywood Street
• Turns west onto Imperial Street
• Continues under Imperial Street, then East 49th
• Turns north at McKinnon Street onto Kerr Street
• Continues under Kerr Street to East 41st
• Turns west onto East 41st at Rupert Street
• Continues under 41st Avenue to Camosun Street

- Transitions through a tunnel portal west of Camosun Street to being elevated
- Has subway stations at Grange Street (Old Orchard), Central Boulevard (Metrotown), Boundary Road (Central Park), McKinnon Street, Rupert Street (Rupert-Killarney), Clarendon Street, Victoria Drive, Knight Street, Fraser Street (Mountain View), Main Street, Cambie Street (Oakridge-41st; below), Oak Street (VanDusen), Granville Street, Arbutus Street & West Boulevard (Kerrisdale), and Dunbar Street
- Continues elevated along SW Marine Drive to University Boulevard terminus

• Turns north towards Nurseries Road
• Proceeds north-northwest along Westbook Mall
• Turns west before Doug Mitchell Thunderbird Sports Centre
• Turns north-northwest when reaches East Mall
• Continues along East Mall
• Final turn northeast to terminus at University Boulevard

- Has elevated stations at West 16th Avenue, Thunderbird Boulevard near UBC Skate Park, and University Boulevard at UBC Loop Bay 13 (UBC)
- Line continues as Millennium Line after UBC station

Maple-Langley Line (SkyTrain, LIM)
- Begins elevated at Meadowtown Centre
- Proceeds southeast alongside the Millennium Line, turning south onto Golden Ears Way
- Moves east then crosses the Fraser River east of the Golden Ears Bridge
- Moves back west to continue alongside Golden Ears Way
- Continues elevated along 201st Street, then 200th Street

• Follows 201st Street as it merges into 200th Street
• Proceeds on east side of 200th Street when approaching Highway 1
• Crosses above Highway 1 and 200th Street Interchange to the west of 200th Street
• Continues on west side of 200th Street
• Crosses back over to east side of 200th just north of 84th Avenue
• May have a partially at-grade section south of Routley-72nd due to the grade differential (just a bit larger of a differential than the 6% maximum required for SkyTrain)
• Continues south to Fraser Highway terminus, where it joins the Expo Line heading southeast

- Has elevated stations at Airport Way, 96th Avenue (Walnut Grove), 91a Avenue (Langley Sportsplex), 86th Avenue (west of Carvolth Exchange), 78b Avenue (Events Centre-Willoughby), 72nd Avenue (Routley-72nd), 64th Avenue (Langley Meadows), and Fraser Highway (200th Street)

Aldergrove Line (SkyTrain, LIM; LRT, segregated at-grade/elevated)
- Begins elevated at Langley Centre (from Expo Line)
- Proceeds east along Fraser Highway
- May be required to be tunneled from Langley Bypass/208th Street to approximately where 218th Street would intersect with the Fraser Highway (due to Airport)
- Moves north of the Fraser Highway just east of Stevens Street
- Crosses over Mount Lehmen Road and Highway 1
- Ends at terminus between Fraser Highway westbound lane and Cardinal Avenue just southeast of Highstreet
- Has elevated stations at Langley Bypass & 208th Street, 216th Street (Murrayville-Airport*), between 221st and 222nd Street (Langley Memorial-WC Blair), 272nd Street (Aldergrove), and Fraser Highway & Cardinal Avenue (Highstreet-Abbotsford)
* Murrayville-Airport will be a subway station if that section of the line is tunneled

SFU Gondola
- Gondola connecting Burnaby Mountain station of Hastings Line with SFU at West Campus Road & Residence Lane
- 2 directly connected stations only (Burnaby Mountain at the base; SFU at the summit)

SeaBus
- Removed from network

Additional Notes
- For any planned extensions, I've tried my best to keep the alignments and stations matching those plans
- All lines attempt to follow roads or existing railway ROWs where possible
- All new SkyTrain lines integrate with the existing LIM lines (Expo & Millennium)

• Hastings Line > North Shore Line > Crosstown Line > UBC Extension > Millennium Line > Expo Line & Evergreen Extension > Poco-Ridge Meadows Extension > Maple-Langley Line
• Expo Line > Guildford-White Rock Line & Fraser Extension > Maple-Langley Line > Aldergrove Line

- Station locations generally follow these guidelines:

• Near existing bus loops, exchanges, or stops
• Near existing shopping centres or other centres (medical, recreational, educational)
• Spaced approximately 1 km apart and/or at major road intersections (closer in dense areas, i.e. Vancouver, Burnaby; farther in sparse areas, i.e. southern Surrey, Langley, Maple Ridge)

TL;DR - It's a complex transit network map and many details may not be obvious.

Updated version below: Version 2.4

PS - It's fairly large because I wanted it to be as detailed, specific, and unambiguous as possible. Hopefully the compression is adequate.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by sweetnhappy

Hey everyone,

I've been working on my own fantasy transit map for some time. After discovering this forum (including this thread) I've made some revisions/additions. Some of the recent additions (Crosstown Line and North Shore Line specifically) are inspired by other maps posted here by Leftcoaster and gkz.

There's more to say about the map so I'll do an edit/reply in about an hour when I'm free again. Until then!

...

PS - It's fairly large because I wanted it to be as detailed, specific, and unambiguous as possible. Hopefully the compression down to 4.6 MB helps.

What kind of rail (eg Skytrain, LRT, commuter) were you thinking for each line? Also which would you put above, on or underground?

Based on their planned stops for the Hastings B Line, they'd have stops at Hastings and: Granville, Cambie, Main, Commercial, Nanaimo, Renfrew, Rupert, Kootenay Loop and then Gilmore, Willingdon, Holdom, Sperling and Duthie.

[SOSS]

Nice map. How did you draw that?

[sweetnhappy]

Originally Posted by Sheba

What kind of rail (eg Skytrain, LRT, commuter) were you thinking for each line? Also which would you put above, on or underground?

Based on their planned stops for the Hastings B Line, they'd have stops at Hastings and: Granville, Cambie, Main, Commercial, Nanaimo, Renfrew, Rupert, Kootenay Loop and then Gilmore, Willingdon, Holdom, Sperling and Duthie.

The types of lines are spelled out in the legend of the map as well as in the expansion of my post (not yet complete). The only departures from SkyTrain, besides the already in service WCE, are the Aldergrove LRT Line (to Abbotsford from Langley) and the SFU Gondola (which I believe would be a different alignment than the previously proposed and shelved gondola).

Thanks for mentioning the Kootenay Loop - somehow missed that when I was examining Google Maps for possible station names (as they're not often named after the streets they're near/on/intersecting). Will update the Boundary station name on the Hastings Line and upload an update as soon as I can. The reasons for the Hastings Line alignment I've suggested will become clear once I add the details for it (has to do with existing lines and how to cross them as well as large buildings/density in the downtown core).

Remember that most of this is pure fantasy but hopefully it comes with logic and sound judgement. I appreciate the feedback!

[sweetnhappy]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Nice map. How did you draw that?

In Photoshop: stitched together map screenshots, drew path lines along the alignments, stroked (Photoshop term) them the appropriate colours (with outlines), added stations and names, then kept repeating the process for each new line/extension (so many layers and layer groups).

If you ask me, I actually prefer how my version of the SkyTrain track diagram turned out when compared to this one. I did start on this one first in Photoshop whereas the track diagram was based on an existing diagram that I updated in Illustrator (though I did use this one for redrawing the lines of the track diagram).

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by sweetnhappy

The types of lines are spelled out in the legend of the map as well as in the expansion of my post (not yet complete). The only departures from SkyTrain, besides the already in service WCE, are the Aldergrove LRT Line (to Abbotsford from Langley) and the SFU Gondola (which I believe would be a different alignment than the previously proposed and shelved gondola).

I wouldn't put LRT anywhere to be honest. With the exception of SFU, it makes the most sense to use the same tech for each line because that eliminates having to maintain separate incompatible rolling stock, OMC's and such. The actual climate of the Pacific coast (eg BC, Washington, and Seattle) would typically favor elevated transit, to avoid subway stations filling up with rain water the closer to the river they are, and washouts of level-grade tracks. (Or like in Portland, the street grade-separation crossings for the LRT filling up with water.) About the only place that could justify LRT is White Rock to Surrey if BNSF moves their tracks and the new ROW runs parallel with the Freight tracks, and presumably the crossings are grade separated to allow for high-speed rail. That is, of course, why it would make sense, because most proposals to move the tracks wouldn't work without grade separated crossings.

LRT/Streetcars only only "best" used where there are no major roads to cross it, and aren't time sensitive. That usually means they operate as circulators between two landmarks that parallel a geographic barrier (Eg 250 meters from a lake or the sea) that cars aren't able to cross either. But they still have the drawbacks of being run at grade, which means BRT often is the better option for reliability and safety concerns. This is why a street car around false creek likely would survive a political test, but it wouldn't survive an economic one (it would only be viable for summer tourism, and not practical as an actual transit route year round, it ends up competing with the Aquabus and False Creek Ferries.)

SFU is this difficult puzzle. Realistically, there is no reason other than cost ($230m/km) why we can't use the Skytrain there too. The LIM actually makes it a better option than all other adhesion rail options. But a Gondola ($15m/km) would require less space (only where the Pylons that hold the wires up) or a Funicular would be a more direct option, but has the same downsides as other at-grade options (eg wildlife being unable to cross it, environmental damage.) So it's really a political question more than a technical one. The Gondola actually works out to be cheaper, but it's also point-to-point, which means it would terminate at the Skytrain and the Summit, but not provide more than one stop on either side.

The SFU Gondola could remove 50 high-maintenance buses from needing to climb the mountain, which is what makes it economically and environmentally beneficial. The MetroCable, is 6000pphpd, and literately falls into the "fast, frequent transit" (every 12 seconds) kind of expectation Metro Vancouver has. The technology used by Whistler is capable of the same and can withstand high winds.

[carlos_danger]

Cool map, thanks for posting!

One suggestion for the North Shore section - ideally the line would jog to the south at Lonsdale to provide a more seamless connection with the Seabus and bus loop. As configured along 3rd it would require a 10 minute uphill walk (or a short bus) to make the transfer.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by carlos_danger

Cool map, thanks for posting!

One suggestion for the North Shore section - ideally the line would jog to the south at Lonsdale to provide a more seamless connection with the Seabus and bus loop. As configured along 3rd it would require a 10 minute uphill walk (or a short bus) to make the transfer.

Even better would be snaking it up Lonsdale Avenue and/or Grand Boulevard instead of to Park Royal; instead starting a dedicated North Shore line at the (potential) Ambleside SeaBus, then connecting the two crossings, then going all the way to Deep Cove.

[sweetnhappy]

Originally Posted by Kisai

I wouldn't put LRT anywhere to be honest. With the exception of SFU, it makes the most sense to use the same tech for each line because that eliminates having to maintain separate incompatible rolling stock, OMC's and such. The actual climate of the Pacific coast (eg BC, Washington, and Seattle) would typically favor elevated transit, to avoid subway stations filling up with rain water the closer to the river they are, and washouts of level-grade tracks. (Or like in Portland, the street grade-separation crossings for the LRT filling up with water.) About the only place that could justify LRT is White Rock to Surrey if BNSF moves their tracks and the new ROW runs parallel with the Freight tracks, and presumably the crossings are grade separated to allow for high-speed rail. That is, of course, why it would make sense, because most proposals to move the tracks wouldn't work without grade separated crossings.

LRT/Streetcars only only "best" used where there are no major roads to cross it, and aren't time sensitive. That usually means they operate as circulators between two landmarks that parallel a geographic barrier (Eg 250 meters from a lake or the sea) that cars aren't able to cross either. But they still have the drawbacks of being run at grade, which means BRT often is the better option for reliability and safety concerns. This is why a street car around false creek likely would survive a political test, but it wouldn't survive an economic one (it would only be viable for summer tourism, and not practical as an actual transit route year round, it ends up competing with the Aquabus and False Creek Ferries.)

SFU is this difficult puzzle. Realistically, there is no reason other than cost ($230m/km) why we can't use the Skytrain there too. The LIM actually makes it a better option than all other adhesion rail options. But a Gondola ($15m/km) would require less space (only where the Pylons that hold the wires up) or a Funicular would be a more direct option, but has the same downsides as other at-grade options (eg wildlife being unable to cross it, environmental damage.) So it's really a political question more than a technical one. The Gondola actually works out to be cheaper, but it's also point-to-point, which means it would terminate at the Skytrain and the Summit, but not provide more than one stop on either side.

The SFU Gondola could remove 50 high-maintenance buses from needing to climb the mountain, which is what makes it economically and environmentally beneficial. The MetroCable, is 6000pphpd, and literately falls into the "fast, frequent transit" (every 12 seconds) kind of expectation Metro Vancouver has. The technology used by Whistler is capable of the same and can withstand high winds.

Great reply, Kisai! I was actually on the fence as to whether or not the Aldergrove Line should be LRT or SkyTrain. The primary reason for leaning in the LRT direction is the limited number of stops and major road crossings - though that only really happens once you are east of Langley Memorial/WC Blair so up to that point SkyTrain definitely makes the most sense. I do agree that mixing tech is not desirable, which is why I tried to avoid anything besides SkyTrain for the most part.

Thanks for the info and links regarding the SFU Gondola. I would have made that SkyTrain too but as you say the costs would be pretty much prohibitive. Also, considering that most of Burnaby Mountain is a Conservation Area (with the exception of SFU itself), I believe the minimum amount of disruption/construction in the area would be preferable, which I think a gondola would achieve.

I will be making revisions as I'm pretty sure I don't know all the areas as well as others might and I want to include feedback in making my transit fantasy map better (already done so by incorporating previous maps/ideas).

[sweetnhappy]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Even better would be snaking it up Lonsdale Avenue and/or Grand Boulevard instead of to Park Royal; instead starting a dedicated North Shore line at the (potential) Ambleside SeaBus, then connecting the two crossings, then going all the way to Deep Cove.

Thanks for the replies. You've got some interesting ideas and I'll be looking into incorporating them. I should mention that my fantasy removes the SeaBus from the network completely. That may not be the best way to proceed but I think if the North Shore Line loops into other lines, both to the east and to the west, that the SeaBus will then be redundant (besides offering a more direct connection between Lonsdale and Waterfront). I'll put more thought into it and make mention of it in my next iteration of the map.

Update: My expanded notes are complete for the first iteration of the map (see the post with the map above). Now will be moving onto the second iteration.

[sweetnhappy]

Revised version (2.1) of my transit fantasy map:



Updated version below: Version 2.4

[MIPS]

Instead of scrapping their old trains, Montreal will be selling them off for about $1000 each to whoever wants them.
We gotta do this with the Mk I's.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Instead of scrapping their old trains, Montreal will be selling them off for about $1000 each to whoever wants them.
We gotta do this with the Mk I's.

That might be an interesting thing (not sure how much it would cost to ship such a thing) to do.

Someone could make a MKI "trailer park" of low-cost housing out of them.

Though if we really think about it, the most likely thing to happen with the MKI's is the same thing that happens to old buses and old transit cars, they get recycled.

The selling of transit vehicles if often just a thing for collectors/museums to try and get such things before they end up as boat anchors.

[MIPS]

I could totally see someone dropping a train in an empty lot, attaching utilities and a kitchen on the backside and opening it as "The Bar Car"


Image courtesy of Paul Pesante


Edited: Alternately someone turns one into a backyard toolshed or someone uses the front of one to replicate CityTV's car crashing through a wall in Toronto.


Image courtesy of Stephen Bay

[Bdawe]

I'd like to think that they'd keep a set of Mark Is around after they're retired and haul it out for special events and things

[MIPS]

What is the stance is at TransLink regarding keeping even a lone two-car set parked somewhere at OMC but owned by the TRAMS society? The SkyTrain is a bit more demanding in where it can run compared to a trolley bus.