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  #1061  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2009, 8:31 PM
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$25 million school to be built in Tooele. This may be not noteworthy news, but it sounds big for Tooele.


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1
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  #1062  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2009, 8:41 PM
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ebay in SoJo? more sprawl development

eBay to construct $334 million data center in South Jordan!


This will be huge! This will be in Daybreak. This could have been decent sized highrise in downtown SLC! Despite how nice Daybreak is, it's disappointing that it is set so far back from Bangerter Highway. If it truly was good planning, it would have stitched itself much better into existing cities and neighborhoods. Despite how nice this office building will look out there, the hugeness will only further exacerbate our sprawl problem! The scale of this development will only help to draw more people out to that part of the valley, and further away from the epicenter of the metro region! Please, someone place some controls over developers and private owners for the sake of the region!
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1
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  #1063  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2009, 8:49 PM
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Ground broken for upscale Park City entertainment center!

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1
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  #1064  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2009, 9:41 PM
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That entertainment center/bowling alley in Park City sounds very cool. I'm going to want to check that out.
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  #1065  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2009, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
$70 million apartment complex to be built in Herriman.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1

http://www.millwoodmgt.com/Farmgate/images/A000.pdf

It looks nice, but why densify way out there?! This is just another example of bad sprawl development. I brings more people way out of the way from more used infrastructure and transportation.
For better or worse, I can see people wanting to buy homes in the Herriman area for low prices, bigger yards, etc., but why would anyone want to rent an apartment all the way out there. There are no jobs around so just about everyone renting out there is going to be commuting somewhere else anyway.
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  #1066  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2009, 4:18 PM
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I hate In-n-Out too...their food is mediocre, and their service, at the three I've been to, is terrible. I don't think I'll be hitting the one in Draper often.
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  #1067  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2009, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
eBay to construct $334 million data center in South Jordan!


This will be huge! This will be in Daybreak. This could have been decent sized highrise in downtown SLC! Despite how nice Daybreak is, it's disappointing that it is set so far back from Bangerter Highway. If it truly was good planning, it would have stitched itself much better into existing cities and neighborhoods. Despite how nice this office building will look out there, the hugeness will only further exacerbate our sprawl problem! The scale of this development will only help to draw more people out to that part of the valley, and further away from the epicenter of the metro region! Please, someone place some controls over developers and private owners for the sake of the region!
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1
Well we've got to fend for ourselves out here somehow. If we don't put up a fight, SLC will suck everything down town and force us to commute 1 hour each way for everything. So would you rather us build endless seas of houses out here, or cluster together in dense centers? Daybreak is bringing density to the region and offering a central hub to cluster around. We could just sprawl traditionaly with seas of houses and strip malls - or we can make dense commercial/residential hubs with light-rail access like Daybreak.

I think this project is great for the region!

Seems to me like you guys always speak of us as miniscule "burbs out in the middle of nowhere", but judging by your harsh diatribes against us developing our community centers you guys fear us What's there to be scared of? You guys have more going on down town than in recent history!! If anything, I think the maturation of the "burbs" is helping you guys. Stunting growth out here isn't going to help out the region very much.
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  #1068  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2009, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by arkhitektor View Post
For better or worse, I can see people wanting to buy homes in the Herriman area for low prices, bigger yards, etc., but why would anyone want to rent an apartment all the way out there. There are no jobs around so just about everyone renting out there is going to be commuting somewhere else anyway.
What do you mean there are no jobs out there have you ever heard of Kennecott? There is also a very good sized Industrial Park on the West Jordan / South Jordan border. 5 minutes from Herriman on Bacchus Hwy. E-bay will soon be right there as well. The Farmgate Apartments are right across the street from Daybreak, and just to piss off the NIMBYS there is also another Apartment complex being built right next to Farmgate called Timbergate. And I guarantee with the state of the economy right now those will fill up faster than they can build them. San Tropez @ the District is experiencing this now. Herriman is trying very hard to make their city sustainable. Look at their website they are trying to build a city center that would help transform this bedroom community. There are alot of jobs in the area for people that live in apartments the problem is there is not enough high paying jobs(careers) for people to afford homes without commuting.

Last edited by SLCdave; Feb 14, 2009 at 7:12 PM.
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  #1069  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2009, 7:45 PM
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QUOTE=Urban_logic;4087624]Well we've got to fend for ourselves out here somehow. If we don't put up a fight, SLC will suck everything down town and force us to commute 1 hour each way to and from work. So would you rather us build endless seas of houses out here, or cluster together in dense centers? Daybreak is bringing density to the region and offering a central hub to cluster around. We could just sprawl traditionaly with seas of houses and strip malls - or we can make dense commercial/residential hubs with light-rail access like Daybreak.

I think this project is great for the region!

Seems to me like you guys always speak of us as miniscule "burbs out in the middle of nowhere", but judging by your harsh diatribes against us developing our community centers you guys fear us What's there to be scared of? You guys have more going on down town than in recent history!! If anything, I think the maturation of the "burbs" is helping you guys. Stunting growth out here isn't going to help out the region very much.[/QUOTE]



I don't think you get it. I'm not against the burbs or development out there as long as it is smart and there is some thought as to how it impacts the entire metro region. People commute an hour or more because of typical status quo suburban mindset of living in the burbs and having to commute everywhere. Have you not seen pictures of great cities? Did you not see that picture of Johannesburg, South Africa posted just a little while back? They don't have massive parking lots, and blighted areas in their central core like SLC does, and other U.S. cities that have suffered from sprawl.

Let's get this straight. I am not against establishing suburban centers, just as long as it is not on the fringe like this one is. Or as massive like the Proscenium project in Sandy. This is irresponsible development. It seems great for the developer and the suburb or land developer it immediately surrounds. But, it will acts as a catalyst to bring more and more people out to the fringe of suburban development, and therefore, pulling more vitality out of the metro core. I do understand where you are going with this, though. If this building were in downtown, most of the people that would work there would probably be commuting from the suburbs. It's just that this huge building is going to be placed on the fringe, as in sagebrush land. This is not smart. It would have been much better to place this building near south town in Sandy!

Here is a good analogy. You can think of a city as a donut, where the perimeter is forever expanding with new and better development, and the core in the middle tries to survive. Or, you can think of the city as something that you focus attention on the vitality the whole of the metro region with more of on cohesive planning with more density and vibrancy as you get closer to the heart of the region. Try to stitch together fragmented urban areas by infilling with good planning and make living in denser(not necessarily new york dense, but even Daybreak dense) more urban areas more attractive. Most great cities in this world have very attractive semi-dense living with neighborhood parks, corner bakeries, etc.
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  #1070  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2009, 9:15 PM
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To those who are complaining about the eBay structure...they obviously chose the area because it is much cheaper than a downtown office area. Plus it is a data center--I highly doubt it is going to be filled with many even mid-level officials, let alone top of the company--they aren't going to want to spend more a more money on data location than they would on a corporate HQ. Thus in my mind eBay would likely say, if you force us to build downtown, fine, we'll build somewhere else. So my question is, would you rather have the increase of jobs for the area as a whole? Or rather make sure that anyone having office space over 10,000 sq ft build it downtown--and thus have less of a job increase (on the whole) because some companies refuse to have downtown office space?

In short, I'm glad for the increase in jobs for Utah, the old idiom, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" seems to fit for me.
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  #1071  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2009, 9:19 PM
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Skyscraper in Cottonwood Heights?
Developer informally proposes 12-story structure.



picture courtesy of VCBO Architecture

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_11700743

"The fourth building in the Old Mill Corporate Center complex was approved three years ago as a six-story facility -- the tallest height for office buildings in the city.

But a few weeks ago, developers Beckstrand & Associates informally pitched Cottonwood Heights city leaders with another possibility: a 12-story structure. "
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  #1072  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2009, 12:59 AM
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If they build this building in Cottonwood Heights they really need to start thinking about their grid system as that complex is already a business park style mess. They need to create some sort of street system in that parking lot that abuts the buildings and add some pedestrian level retail presence, as well as underground parking.
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  #1073  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2009, 3:54 AM
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SLC International

Does anyone know if any of the SLC International expansion plans are "shovel ready?" Has airport rehab been proposed as a project to take advantage of the Economic Stimulus Package passed yesterday? What do you know, Skyguy?
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  #1074  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2009, 6:08 PM
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""The good part of the site is, it's the lowest [geographic] point through the Cottonwood Creek area," said Project Manager Jim Smuin of VCBO Architecture. He pointed out that the taller Old Mill would be at elevations similar to shorter buildings built higher on the foothill."


So in other words they are going to built this thing in a hole so that way it will only look like a 3-story building.


"The building could be between 144 and 165 feet, Smuin said, and there have been talks on burying the first level below ground."



Isn't that called a basement?
So really it's a 11-story building with A basement.


I never really got the "Cottonwood Heights" area. I mean having all those office buildings way out there just seems like it's way out of the way from most people. I think it would of make more sense to build housing/condo buildings and hotels there in that area since it's right by the mouth of Big Cottonwood Canyon.
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  #1075  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2009, 6:56 PM
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I don't think you get it. I'm not against the burbs or development out there as long as it is smart and there is some thought as to how it impacts the entire metro region. People commute an hour or more because of typical status quo suburban mindset of living in the burbs and having to commute everywhere. Have you not seen pictures of great cities? Did you not see that picture of Johannesburg, South Africa posted just a little while back? They don't have massive parking lots, and blighted areas in their central core like SLC does, and other U.S. cities that have suffered from sprawl.

Let's get this straight. I am not against establishing suburban centers, just as long as it is not on the fringe like this one is. Or as massive like the Proscenium project in Sandy. This is irresponsible development. It seems great for the developer and the suburb or land developer it immediately surrounds. But, it will acts as a catalyst to bring more and more people out to the fringe of suburban development, and therefore, pulling more vitality out of the metro core. I do understand where you are going with this, though. If this building were in downtown, most of the people that would work there would probably be commuting from the suburbs. It's just that this huge building is going to be placed on the fringe, as in sagebrush land. This is not smart. It would have been much better to place this building near south town in Sandy!

Here is a good analogy. You can think of a city as a donut, where the perimeter is forever expanding with new and better development, and the core in the middle tries to survive. Or, you can think of the city as something that you focus attention on the vitality the whole of the metro region with more of on cohesive planning with more density and vibrancy as you get closer to the heart of the region. Try to stitch together fragmented urban areas by infilling with good planning and make living in denser(not necessarily new york dense, but even Daybreak dense) more urban areas more attractive. Most great cities in this world have very attractive semi-dense living with neighborhood parks, corner bakeries, etc.
Well how about our beautiful neighbor to the East? Denver has a HUGE and thriving down town coexsisting with smaller, but also large down town-like aeas like the Denver Tech Center.

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Originally Posted by Snodrifter View Post
Denver Tech Center.

Copyright © 2007 by Foresight Aerial Photography
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Denver Tech Center


Taken by KCgridlock.
Down Town Denver:

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Originally Posted by DenverInfill View Post
Then they have Boulder not too far away and many other such developments around the metro. This "sprawl" caused down town parking lots and blight, but Denver agressively fought and succeeded in restoring a viable and thriving down town despite the suburban developments. Central cities just need to learn how to still attract people into town. Then, when you have a thriving central city sorounded by thriving satalite developments, you've got yourself a thriving region.

As to being on the "fringe", I wouldn't consider 20 miles "on the fringe". The valley is going to fill up rather you like it or not. When this happens, and there is another 5 miles of development behind Daybreak, what's going to happen to those people? Are they going to commute an hour and a half to SLC? Maybe some. But a lot of them will probably work in nearby Daybreak. Note that Daybreak goes from about 104th to 118th South and 38th to 56th West. The valley extends to about 90ish West and 150th South - so there is still a good 5 miles of devloping/developable land to the south of Daybreak and another 5 miles to the west of Daybreak.

If Daybreak didn't exist, then all of this would just develop into a sea of subdivisions with no center. The center would be 20-30 miles away in SLC which would not be very good for the entire region (for southwest valley residents because of the horid commute, for mid-valley people because of all the traffic going through their communities, and not for the valley as a whole because of all the smog generated from all this commuting). Yes, there will be light rail, but that would not have anywhere near the capacity to facilitate all of these commuters. It can facilitate those who do commute into SLC, but the rest can drive 5 miles to commute into Daybreak in their cars (not the cleanest form of transportation, but a lot cleaner commuting 20 min than an hour and 20 min) or even commute 30 min into Sandy.

I know that you would rather not have any development out here at all if you had it your way, but the reality is that it is going to happen whether we like it or not, We have to plan to manage this development so that it doesn't become "sprawl". Investing in suburban centers and TOD's, I believe, helps invest in the future of the region and draws sprawl inward.
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Last edited by Urban_logic; Feb 15, 2009 at 7:48 PM.
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  #1076  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2009, 9:03 PM
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Cottonwood Corporate Center

I know I'm asking for a barrage of responses with this comment, but am I the only one who HATES the architecture of the 3 low-rise buildings of Cottonwood Corporate Center? Now they are going to mimic that architecture in a 12-story bldg? Have they no shame? The only thing those 3 low-rise's had going for them was that they weren't tall enough to be seen from very far away.

Have you ever been inside of those buildings? They are awful. The space is apportioned, because of the goofy architecture, like a train wreck, at least in Bldg.'s one and two. Never been in three. Rooms are odd-sized and moving within the buildings is like finding your way around in a maze.

Visually, for me at least, the architecture doesn't work. Looks like half a watermelon slice, rotating on a banana. About the only building I've ever seen in the SLC area worse than these three is that post-modernist atrocity in the middle of Holladay...you know, the turquoise and black building with the bronze deer in the front. YUK!!! I wonder if the same architectural firm is behind all four buildings?
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  #1077  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2009, 9:05 PM
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The biggest problem with suburban development is that there are very limited connections. Even Daybreak is limited in how it is connected to the areas around it. Someone early talked about the major street grid being in place, and it is. The biggest problem though his that the connections between arterials, collectors and local streets are limited. You see this in all parts of the suburbs, whether it is Taylorsville, Sandy, South Jordan, etc. Until the development patterns change, the suburbs have a real challenge of improving their land use mix, transportation, etc. into a system that limits their impact. They can do it, but they need to do some soul searching about the role they play in the region and and the best way they can fulfill the role to benefit themselves and their neighbors. Job creation is a major component of that.

Denver Tech Center is a crazy place, similar to the fort union area, only much larger. I was at the Rocky Mt. land use Institute a few years back and they said that there were more jobs in the tech center than in Downtown. I also noticed a lot of vacancies when I was there. The City it is in (commerce City I think) has a very small base population and has real issues paying for services for their daytime population based on there small number of residents. It is almost the complete opposite situation than most suburbs.
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  #1078  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2009, 9:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperlord View Post
Skyscraper in Cottonwood Heights?
Developer informally proposes 12-story structure.



picture courtesy of VCBO Architecture

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_11700743

"The fourth building in the Old Mill Corporate Center complex was approved three years ago as a six-story facility -- the tallest height for office buildings in the city.

But a few weeks ago, developers Beckstrand & Associates informally pitched Cottonwood Heights city leaders with another possibility: a 12-story structure. "
The sum of all levels of office space in office buildings at the Cottonwood Corporate Center (business park), including this new proposal, equals 87. So basically, this business park could have been either one 87 story tower in downtown, two 43 story towers in downtown, three 29 story towers in downtown, four 22 story towers in downtown, and so on.

And that is just the Cottonwood Corporate Center. Currently, Sandy is at 89.

87 Stories


89 Stories

Last edited by urbanboy; Feb 15, 2009 at 9:37 PM.
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  #1079  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2009, 9:11 PM
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Central cities just need to learn how to still attract people into town. Then, when you have a thriving central city sorounded by thriving satalite developments, you've got yourself a thriving region.
Are you kidding?!
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  #1080  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2009, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RFPCME View Post
Visually, for me at least, the architecture doesn't work. Looks like half a watermelon slice, rotating on a banana. About the only building I've ever seen in the SLC area worse than these three is that post-modernist atrocity in the middle of Holladay...you know, the turquoise and black building with the bronze deer in the front. YUK!!! I wonder if the same architectural firm is behind all four buildings?
I love this building!


Haha, how could you say that? I think it looks fantastic. It's literally within walking distance of my house so I see it everyday, I've never heard anyone say they didn't like it.

About the Old Mill development. Wow. 12 stories really seems like a lot. I can't really imagine how big that would be. The current buildings (Old Mill I,II, and III) seem pretty big already. I really do think this is a good area for those offices though. These aren't just office buildings, these are corporate offices. The companies headquartered there aren't just local, they're world class, to say the least. I know of two major-CEO's in my neighborhood who have corporate offices there. David Neeleman, former CEO of JetBlue, who used to live down the street from my house, and Ken Wooley, CEO of extraspace, who also lives down the street, both probably chose that development because it's very close to where we live. A good portion of the major Utah-entrepreneurs live in this area anyway.

Anyway, I really don't think this size project will pass, being right by the south end of Holladay Blvd. you're going to get some strong naysayers. Richard Beckstrand used to be my scout advisor (to say the least ), I'll be anxious to talk to him next time I see him. This development has been continually growing bigger and bigger. It wasn't always this big, it wasn't nearly this nice either. There's still a concrete-mineral mine overlooking the whole complex, it'll be interesting to see what happens to that eventually. I quite like it as it is right now, there's a wonderful vibe there. I believe there's a Residence Inn there now, obviously the golf course is attractive to businesses, and there are tons of thriving restaurants. My favorite is Market Street Grill with the modern cable swaying bridge that goes over the river. It's really an exciting area.
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