DENVER - I-70 Relocation

[SnyderBock]

Wide-screen TV's? That is so, like last year.

[Cirrus]

You know, if there is one thing I think most jurisdictions in the US spend way too much time and effort on, it's landscaping. Especially in areas where the landscaping hurts walkability by spreading things out more, and where it's a band aid on an otherwise horrible built environment.

I'd be perfectly happy if the landscaping budget for streets were zeroed out, and that money put into making sure every street has a decent sidewalk.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

Wide-screen TV's? That is so, like last year.

LMAO. Indeed.

Progress is: iPADs, Facebook, Xfinity, etc.

Rather sad substitute for good jobs, etc.

But, as my father told me, "Son if it helps you meet people, then get off you butt and do it..." Oh, wait. The modern 'stuff' has made us a people that are not obese.

Sure helps China, I will grant you.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

You know, if there is one thing I think most jurisdictions in the US spend way too much time and effort on, it's landscaping. Especially in areas where the landscaping hurts walkability by spreading things out more, and where it's a band aid on an otherwise horrible built environment.

I'd be perfectly happy if the landscaping budget for streets were zeroed out, and that money put into making sure every street has a decent sidewalk.

Landscaping is considered art, and just about every Federal funded project requires a small percentage of funding for public art. Statues and fountains don't always work around streets, therefore the landscaping.
To eliminate landscaping near streets, you'll need to eliminate the Federal requirement for public art. Good luck getting that done....

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by electricron

Landscaping is considered art, and just about every Federal funded project requires a small percentage of funding for public art. Statues and fountains don't always work around streets, therefore the landscaping.
To eliminate landscaping near streets, you'll need to eliminate the Federal requirement for public art. Good luck getting that done....

IMO, in most of the US, Colorado, and, in the Denver Metro Area, public landscaping typically is not done by those who have been comitted pedestrians, particularly by those who, at one extended time or another, had no choice but to walk, bus, and, bike.

Things look differently at different speeds: 5mph, 15, mph, 30mph, and, 60mph traveling speeds have different visceral affections as the limits of our visual comprehension are constant, while the speeds we travel are not.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by electricron

Landscaping is considered art, and just about every Federal funded project requires a small percentage of funding for public art. Statues and fountains don't always work around streets, therefore the landscaping.
To eliminate landscaping near streets, you'll need to eliminate the Federal requirement for public art. Good luck getting that done....

Please back this statement up with a link to actual federal language that a) requires art in transportation projects (including local streets!), and b) defines landscaping as art.

I think you will find neither.

[docroc]

Expiration Date / Portions of urban highways are being removed in cities around the world. Is it the JFX's turn?
by Mat Edelson, June 1, 2012
Urbanite, Vol. 7, No. 96

http://www.urbanitebaltimore.com/bal...nt?oid=1473895

What if you threw a fiftieth anniversary celebration, and the most important invitees didn't show? On Dec 16, 2011, the Jones Falls Expressway, the highway credited with keeping downtown Baltimore from completely going to pot following the infamous suburban White Flight of the 1960s and 70s, and for delivering more than 100,000 commuters daily to their urban points of employment and entertainment, marked a half-century of hovering above, below, and right on top of Mother Earth.

[wong21fr]

^I still don't think that there's any decent comparison with Baltimore's experiment in removing an interstate that dead-ends in the city center with the discussion about rerouting I-70. It's an apples to oranges comparison.

One was based upon the idea that a city center needs interstate access to be successful or, in Baltimore's case, needs an interstate designed solely to feed the city center. The other is a discussion about rerouting an interstate that serves the actual purpose of an interstate highway.

[Cirrus]

I agree that I-70 is a crucial long-distance through road that we can't just take down, and I agree that the Baltimore situation isn't exactly comparable, but how I-70 makes its way through Denver isn't really important. Nothing says it has to follow its existing alignment. If through traffic is the only consideration, you could just designate one of these corridors as I-70 and knock down everything between I-76 and I-270:

If we did the blue option, maybe we could even pay for the knockdown with all the tolls we'd fleece from through drivers who just follow the I-70 signs without looking to see if there's a free option.

[FunctionForm]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

I agree that I-70 is a crucial long-distance through road that we can't just take down, and I agree that the Baltimore situation isn't exactly comparable, but how I-70 makes its way through Denver isn't really important. Nothing says it has to follow its existing alignment. If through traffic is the only consideration, you could just designate one of these corridors as I-70 and knock down everything between I-76 and I-270:

If we did the blue option, maybe we could even pay for the knockdown with all the tolls we'd fleece from through drivers who just follow the I-70 signs without looking to see if there's a free option.

Thinking outside the box is always a good thing, but let's not forget that the shortest distance between two points is still a straight line.

[The Dirt]

Let's not forget then, that the shortest distance was Colfax - the original through-way and business I-70 alignment. Today's I-70 already makes a fairly extensive arc across northern Denver, asking to arc a bit farther north (I-270/I-76) isn't asking a lot. Let's also not forget that I-270 and I-76 cut across mostly industrial or undeveloped land with plenty of room to widen and not a lot of pesky homeowners or neighborhoods to deal with.

[Cirrus]

lol. Yeah, sorry Cherry Creek North, you're going to have to go:

[Brainpathology]

Too bad it still has to go through Denver .. Looks like the south/C470 alignment is the closest to the true straight line though

[texcolo]

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

Too bad it still has to go through Denver .. Looks like the south/C470 alignment is the closest to the true straight line though

We should just do away with the interstate highway system all together. It's best days are behind us.

[The Dirt]

I recommend that we dig canals then. God knows we need more waterways around Denver, anyway.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Let's not forget then, that the shortest distance was Colfax - the original through-way and business I-70 alignment. Today's I-70 already makes a fairly extensive arc across northern Denver, asking to arc a bit farther north (I-270/I-76) isn't asking a lot. Let's also not forget that I-270 and I-76 cut across mostly industrial or undeveloped land with plenty of room to widen and not a lot of pesky homeowners or neighborhoods to deal with.

This! Look at a map, there is TONS of room to widen those highways on 270 and 76, more than enough to carry the current capacity of those highways plus the reroute of I-70.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

This! Look at a map, there is TONS of room to widen those highways on 270 and 76, more than enough to carry the current capacity of those highways plus the reroute of I-70.

Yeah, I really like that idea too but hasn't that ship sailed already? sadly

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

Yeah, I really like that idea too but hasn't that ship sailed already? sadly

The inertia of institutions with skads of employees, too many hierachial levels, driven by rationalizing 'budgets', operating with cozy political relationships almost never produces 'best' solutions, particularly in the US since about...1880.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by Wizened Variations

The inertia of institutions with skads of employees, too many hierachial levels, driven by rationalizing 'budgets', operating with cozy political relationships almost never produces 'best' solutions, particularly in the US since about...1880.

I really hate to agree with you...because it usually makes me sad, you're like an older more resigned Matt.. but I think you're right on in this case.

But hey, on the bright side I can claim that my drinking this weekend is because I'm dissapointed in the process that lead to preserving the current I-70 alignment. That should confuse most people at Pride enough to be entertaining.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

I really hate to agree with you...because it usually makes me sad, you're like an older more resigned Matt.. but I think you're right on in this case.

But hey, on the bright side I can claim that my drinking this weekend is because I'm dissapointed in the process that lead to preserving the current I-70 alignment. That should confuse most people at Pride enough to be entertaining.

**

I just a dreamer whose has aged (all of you out there, protect your ability to dream above all).

Most of my peers have given up dreaming*, but, I still strongly believe that great planning and design- world class stuff- could still occurr in Denver, despite so much mediocrity, provincialism, petty politics, and, greed, in this, my favorite place on the planet.

*So many have given up hope. "Disgust" is the predominant word I hear used to discribe Denver politics, metro wide politics, the State House, the Feds, American business, academics and entertainment. The older my peers become, the more my peers have seen in other parts of the world what life can be, and, how poorly we have done in so many ways. My friends have not had the money, the "breeding", or the will to live outside of their 40 years of working at various jobs and raising their familities.
But, I will tell you this: when they were in their 20s, 30s, and, 40s, they dreamed too.

**IPAs from the US.