Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[Acajack]

I believe events held at the stadium do bring in between 15 and 25 million dollars annually, depending on the year.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I believe events held at the stadium do bring in between 15 and 25 million dollars annually, depending on the year.

That maybe pays the heating bill.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by esquire

It's nuts. The place is a giant money pit but sentimentality and a general obliviousness to the sunk cost fallacy is going to result in yet another billion dollars poured down the drain.

Yes it will cost a fortune to demolish, but at least then there is some finality to it. Change up the roof and we know with a reasonable degree of certainty that there will be yet another nine figure fix required a decade down the road. How do we know? Because that has been the pattern nonstop since the 1970s.

If there was at least a tenant in there maybe it would make sense on some level, but spending hundreds of millions on an outdated empty stadium to preserve the memory of the Olympics is bonkers.

more than 1k Desjardins employees inside the inclined tower by 2018. new office ''tower''

[esquire]

^ Still probably cheaper to buy out the lease and put the Desjardins employees in another building than to sink $250 million (or more realistically, $500 million) into a roof for a stadium that no one uses for purposes that couldn't be accommodated by some other venue like an arena or convention centre.

[GreaterMontréal]

new roof, real grass, WC 2026

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

new roof, real grass, WC 2026

Just like we called it.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Still probably cheaper to buy out the lease and put the Desjardins employees in another building than to sink $250 million (or more realistically, $500 million) into a roof for a stadium that no one uses for purposes that couldn't be accommodated by some other venue like an arena or convention centre.

Relax. It's not people from Manitoba who will pay for it.

[Acajack]

There is also the issue, if we demolish the Big O, of a metro of over 4 million people and a province of over 8 million being left with a rickety stadium seating 25,000 people mostly on benches (Molson) as its biggest venue. (OK, le Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve can hold over 100,000, but it's not really a sports stadium.)

Even if they wanted to build a decent 40,000-seat stadium from scratch to replace the Big O, it would cost as much as these renos or maybe more.

Look at how much it cost for new stadiums in Winnipeg and Regina.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is also the issue, if we demolish the Big O, of a metro of over 4 million people and a province of over 8 million being left with a rickety stadium seating 25,000 people mostly on benches (Molson) as its biggest venue. (OK, le Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve can hold over 100,000, but it's not really a sports stadium.)

Even if they wanted to build a decent 40,000-seat stadium from scratch to replace the Big O, it would cost as much as these renos or maybe more.

Look at how much it cost for new stadiums in Winnipeg and Regina.

So instead of spending another quarter-billion on rebuilding the roof (which as we all know will end up costing substantially more), why not just be done with it and spend that $4000 million on a proper outdoor stadium instead that will last for at least the next 40 years? Sort of a super-NMS/IGF that has say 45,000 seats instead of 33,000, and big enough for an athletics track.

This kind of standard issue stadium will pretty well have Montreal covered for all the football, soccer, athletics and stadium concert events likely to happen there for the next two generations.

Montreal doesn't really need anything bigger since a MLB team will inevitably get a purpose-built baseball stadium anyway, and Montreal won't get higher level football or soccer than what it currently has.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is also the issue, if we demolish the Big O, of a metro of over 4 million people and a province of over 8 million being left with a rickety stadium seating 25,000 people mostly on benches (Molson) as its biggest venue. (OK, le Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve can hold over 100,000, but it's not really a sports stadium.)

Even if they wanted to build a decent 40,000-seat stadium from scratch to replace the Big O, it would cost as much as these renos or maybe more.

Look at how much it cost for new stadiums in Winnipeg and Regina.

Re-placing the roof is a no-brainer. Demolishing the stadium should not even be part of the conversation. Investing a few hundred millions for a new roof that should last a few decades, and that we'll be able to take off in the summer for special events, is nothing. How much did it cost to replace BC stadium roof ?

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by esquire

So instead of spending another quarter-billion on rebuilding the roof (which as we all know will end up costing substantially more), why not just be done with it and spend that $4000 million on a proper outdoor stadium instead that will last for at least the next 40 years? Sort of a super-NMS/IGF that has say 45,000 seats instead of 33,000, and big enough for an athletics track.

This kind of standard issue stadium will pretty well have Montreal covered for all the football, soccer, athletics and stadium concert events likely to happen there for the next two generations.

Montreal doesn't really need anything bigger since a MLB team will inevitably get a purpose-built baseball stadium anyway, and Montreal won't get higher level football or soccer than what it currently has.

You're missing a "little" added cost for the demolition of the stadium, which last was evaluated as at least 700 millions dollars. And what about the tower, which is now converted into offices ? Be real.

[esquire]

Bit of a difference... BC Place only had one roof over its first 27 years, Big O has gone through two in less than 30 years. BC Place has two full time tenants, Big O has zero with none on the horizon.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Re-placing the roof is a no-brainer. Demolishing the stadium should not even be part of the conversation. Investing a few hundred millions for a new roof that should last a few decades, and that we'll be able to take off in the summer for special events, is nothing. How much did it cost to replace BC stadium roof ?

Not sure about the roof but the total bill for the renos to BC Place were in the vicinity of half a billion dollars. And that stadium is about a decade younger than the Big O.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

You're missing a "little" added cost for the demolition of the stadium, which last was evaluated as at least 700 millions dollars. And what about the tower, which is now converted into offices ? Be real.

No chance that the RIO would have provided an inflated demolition estimate to justify its continued existence, is there?

Put it out to the private sector, let's see a RFP. 100% guaranteed you will get bids coming in way way way under that cost.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by esquire

No chance that the RIO would have provided an inflated demolition estimate to justify its continued existence, is there?

Put it out to the private sector, let's see a RFP. 100% guaranteed you will get bids coming in way way way under that cost.

The reason the cost of the demolition is so high is because there's a subway line underneath. That makes the classic 'implosion' method a non starter. You have to tear it down piece-by-piece.

That being said, I'm coming around to the viewpoint that throwing good money after bad isn't a long term solution.

Put it to the citizens of Montreal/Quebec in a plebiscite. 3 options:
1. Maintain the existing structure at cost $X over the next 50 years.
2. Tear down the existing structure without a replacement. Cost $Y
3. Tear down the existing structure and build a replacement. Cost $Z

[esquire]

^ I don't doubt that demolishing the Big O would be expensive, but $700 MM? Really?

Bear in mind that the RIO has a huge disincentive for making the demolition of the facility seem in any way appealing as it will mean the end for them. I'm sure the RIO would have us all believe that demolishing Olympic Stadium will end up raising temperatures around the world by 12 degrees.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

The reason the cost of the demolition is so high is because there's a subway line underneath. That makes the classic 'implosion' method a non starter. You have to tear it down piece-by-piece.

That being said, I'm coming around to the viewpoint that throwing good money after bad isn't a long term solution.

Put it to the citizens of Montreal/Quebec in a plebiscite. 3 options:
1. Maintain the existing structure at cost $X over the next 50 years.
2. Tear down the existing structure without a replacement. Cost $Y
3. Tear down the existing structure and build a replacement. Cost $Z

You could do that but none of this is really a major public issue here.

That's not because people are happy to see more money thrown at this, but more because they're being realistic about the whole situation.

[esquire]

^ Whether people realize it or not, spending great gobs of money on the Big O just means that much less money for something more socially useful down the line.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Re-placing the roof is a no-brainer. Demolishing the stadium should not even be part of the conversation. Investing a few hundred millions for a new roof that should last a few decades, and that we'll be able to take off in the summer for special events, is nothing. How much did it cost to replace BC stadium roof ?

Every time the BC Place comparison is brought up I can't help but mention that BC Place has two permanent tenants. Olympic Stadium does not and will not even once a new roof is installed.

The demolition cost of the Big O is almost certainly inflated to prevent it from being demolished. Montreal deserves better.

[Berklon]

How often is the Big O used currently?

To make it even worse, it'll still have a cavernous atmosphere even after dumping all that money into it.