Phoenix CityScape Thread

[Don B.]

Took my friend (she just moved here from Tucson) down to Nut Scrape yesterday and had a nice day. Did some sight-seeing, had lunch and picked up a few things.

--don

[nickw252]

To answer HooverDam's questions about the Palomar structure, here is a picture of it from today. I don't like what it looks like so far from the west side. It looks very plain and institutional. Almost like a hospital.

[HX_Guy]

Hey look! People in Patriot's Square!

[HooverDam]

Nick, thanks for the pic but you're right, how ugly. The whole development is more and more of a disappointment all the time. I just don't understand how hard it is to hire a local guy like Eddie Jones and have him do something unique and of good quality. It really doesn't cost more, hell he'd probably design something of a superior quality that in the long run would cost less.

[somethingfast]

yeah, that building is butt-ugly and actually almost negative progress for downtown. it looks like the equivalent of a cheap stucco tract home.

[Vicelord John]

I was noticing the other day how prison'esque it looked

[HX_Guy]

It does look quite value engineered but it's in no way "negative progress"...it will still bring more people to downtown and that's what we need. I doubt anyone will think "Hmm, that's sort of an ugly building...I'll book my hotel elsewhere." Besides I'm looking forward to the pool area...hoping they do some sort of outdoor club like the W in Scottsdale.

[DowntownDweller]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Hey look! People in Patriot's Square!

Hey, I walk through there probably 6 times a day.

[Jsmscaleros]

Boooo at the lack of balconies. How are hotel guests supposed to throw paper airplanes at people in the square now?

[phxSUNSfan]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

I was noticing the other day how prison'esque it looked

You can thank the Seattle architect firm for its soulless designs. Seattle has a much better downtown but all the new buildings in that city resemble CityScape's aesthetics, or lack thereof...

[HooverDam]

Serious question: how do we go about ensuring better looking buildings in Downtown in the future? The Urban Form Code, recently adopted, addresses this to some degree. With all of its requirements for sustainability, density, shade, etc. one would hope by its nature of making developers pay closer attention to detail they'll create more aesthetically pleasing buildings as well.

Do other Cities/Downtowns have any sort of Architecture review boards that can hold up projects or review them? Our skyline and Downtown are just so uninspiring, its sad...there's no reason with our very unique climate we shouldn't have more unique buildings. Instead we're continually given bland boxes that could be any place.

Just once I'd love to see a developer building a tower hire an Eddie Jones or Will Bruder type.

[combusean]

Why the heck is the EIFS gray on one side and blue on the other? It might actually look half decent if it were symmetrical, but it fails hard.

The tower crane attached to it still while so much of it is completed leads me to believe this is our very own Ryugyong hotel.

[plinko]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

Serious question: how do we go about ensuring better looking buildings in Downtown in the future? The Urban Form Code, recently adopted, addresses this to some degree. With all of its requirements for sustainability, density, shade, etc. one would hope by its nature of making developers pay closer attention to detail they'll create more aesthetically pleasing buildings as well.

Do other Cities/Downtowns have any sort of Architecture review boards that can hold up projects or review them? Our skyline and Downtown are just so uninspiring, its sad...there's no reason with our very unique climate we shouldn't have more unique buildings. Instead we're continually given bland boxes that could be any place.

Just once I'd love to see a developer building a tower hire an Eddie Jones or Will Bruder type.

I live in and design buildings in a city with all of those things (Santa Barbara). Trust me, you DON'T want this. It stifles creativity to no end. The end result is also that most of the buildings end up looking remarkably the same and the designed district ends up being incredibly homogenized.

The one area where this type of thing can help greatly is in terms of landscaping and public amenities. This is something that Santa Barbara absolutely excels in (by basically extorting from any and all developers).

I totally agree though that Phoenix DESERVES a downtown project by Bruder and by Jones (and a few others of note). That Callison brought in their blah broadbrush 'could be anywhere' designs and so truly failed to understand the city or the desert is really unfortunate. Collier Center (masterplanned by the Jerde Partnership of Santa Monica) is just as bad.

[HooverDam]

^I don't want anything too prescriptive, but does EVERY building have to be a box? Can we have ONE building down town with a piqued roof, or some kind of interesting form to it?

Even the rules that are on the books, like screening mechanical stuff on roofs, are blatantly ignored by developers liked RED.

[plinko]

Unfortunately in this specific case, the hotel is probably one of the least profitable portions of the project (not like it's a Four Seasons or anything REALLY fancy). And since they can't build the upper portion of the tower right now, it's going to look quite stumpy and plain.

As far as the facade? Lowest common denominator so the only selections are in the colors and maybe the panel joints (though it appears they put little thought into that also).

BTW, totally agreed on the mechanical screening issue. The parapets on both the Sheraton and the Cityscape Tower (can't recall the name of it) are travesties and clearly in violation of the spirit of city zoning.

[Leo the Dog]

It could look worse...it could've been another brown building.

[nickw252]

[gymratmanaz]

Thanks for all your pics today Nick. i agree about other angles and better look. Also, they are not done yet. I too would have preferred another facade to differ from the other tower, but as with the Sheraton, put the money inside where people are.

Also, i am betting there will be some form of crown like the other tower, pool adornments, and other stuff to break up the grey.

[HooverDam]

Plinko, have you looked over the Downtown PHX Urban Form code adopted ordinance? I'd love to hear your thoughts on it as a professional in the business. What do you think it does well? What does it lack?

http://phoenix.gov/urbanformproject/dtcode.html

[HX_Guy]

Kimpton Palomar Hotel at CityScape could be hub for visiting sports teams
Phoenix Business Journal by Mike Sunnucks, Senior Reporter
Date: Wednesday, November 9, 2011, 9:09am MST



The Kimpton Palomar Hotel opening next year in downtown Phoenix may become a hub for professional sports teams visiting the Valley to play Phoenix-area teams.
The 250-room Palomar will be part of the CityScape mixed-use development, across Jefferson Street from US Airways Center and a few blocks west of Chase Field.
Sources familiar with the hotel’s development say its owners are looking to position the Palomar as a destination for teams coming to play the Arizona Diamondbacks and Phoenix Suns in downtown Phoenix, as well as teams visiting the Arizona Cardinals and Phoenix Coyotes in Glendale.
Right now, many teams playing the D-backs and Suns stay at the Ritz-Carlton Phoenix at 24th Street and Camelback Road.
National Football League and National Hockey League teams playing the Cardinals and Coyotes in Glendale also stay at the Ritz or the Renaissance Glendale Hotel & Spa.
Hotel, team and CityScape representatives contacted were mum about where visiting teams stay now and whether the Palomar might host any when it opens next year.
“We are unable to provide any comment or information about our guests,” said Kaitlin Crawford, spokeswoman for the Ritz-Carlton Phoenix.
“We don’t give out that information,” said an official at the Renaissance in Glendale, across from Jobing.com Arena and University of Phoenix Stadium.
One source familiar with the Palomar said the hotel might open earlier than its original target of summer 2012. Attracting professional teams to stay there probably would provide a steady and lucrative revenue source for the new property. Visiting teams generally stay for one to three nights, bringing players, staff, coaches, and sometimes families and accompanying media.
Downtown Phoenix hotels traditionally rely on event traffic from the Phoenix Convention Center as well as out-of-towners visiting the city’s core for special events.
CityScape spokeswoman Jan Bracamonte said she did not have any information about the Palomar potentially becoming a host hotel for visiting teams. She did say the Palomar is expected to open in April, which would coincide with the start of the Major League Baseball season.
San Francisco-based Kimpton Hotel & Restaurant Group LLC also owns the FireSky Resort & Spa in Scottsdale. The hospitality company operates more than 50 boutique hotels and 54 restaurants in 24 markets.
Palomar hotels are in Los Angeles, San Diego, Washington, Dallas and other cities, with rates ranging from $200 to $300 or more per night, depending on the room and amenities.
Kimpton officials did not respond to requests for comment.
Downtown Phoenix and the CityScape development also are expected to be focal points when Arizona hosts the Super Bowl in 2015. The region’s Super Bowl bid, accepted last month by National Football League owners, included having concerts, the media center and fan events in downtown Phoenix.