Discuss This Photo Caption

[SpongeG]

24 years ago we had Expo 86 in Vancouver , quite a success , or maybe it's just selective memory


flickr knightbefore_99

[SpongeG]

i'm not making friends on flickr - lol

leaving stupid comments on their stupid we are better than you cause we protest pictures

[mooks28]

White Spot was (is?) owned by Peter Toigo, who was a giant supporter of Social Credit and Bill Bennett. A little controversial, but not surprising...

[SpongeG]

i don't get the selective memory part

the photogrpaher said this under the photo in context it was a post olympics photo group... his other photos were very anti-games

24 years ago we had Expo 86 in Vancouver , quite a success , or maybe it's just selective memory

is he saying vancouver would still be better off as a sleepy town of 1 million? and to have never grown and become what it has become? we should have never had the exposure that expo 86 gace the city so we could continue living in the small town these people all which vancouver was?

discuss the notion that vancouver should have never developed post 86

[Yume-sama]

I suppose they would be the same people who say the DTES should never be changed (while at the same time advocating change... what exactly, I don't know) from the utopia it is now.

Both claims don't hold much merit, and aren't really worth discussing

[dleung]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

is he saying vancouver would still be better off as a sleepy town of 1 million? and to have never grown and become what it has become? we should have never had the exposure that expo 86 gace the city so we could continue living in the small town these people all which vancouver was?

There's a huge segment of the population here who would honestly love for that, moreso than just about another other city besides Victoria. It's a mentality that's probably inherited from the landscape. Most cities try to look as big and mighty as possible, Vancouver tries to look like a village, at 2.5 million people. In many ways it's succeeding at it.

[Yume-sama]

Probably not a huge section of the population. How many were even here in 1986 ? Not many.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by dleung

There's a huge segment of the population here who would honestly love for that, moreso than just about another other city besides Victoria. It's a mentality that's probably inherited from the landscape. Most cities try to look as big and mighty as possible, Vancouver tries to look like a village, at 2.5 million people. In many ways it's succeeding at it.

When you say that Vancouver is succeeding in looking like a village, what do you mean?

Do you mean that it has a small-town mentality for a city its size, or do you mean something else?

[Spoolmak]

Vancouver looks like a city of well over 600,000. So if you think about it, it really is a "village" that looks like a mega city.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Probably not a huge section of the population. How many were even here in 1986 ? Not many.

Those of us who were here remember the city as being better in a lot of ways back then.

Growth has brought benefits but also a lot of negatives. I don't know why SSPers are so dismissive of differing beliefs.

[raggedy13]

For a metro of 2.4 mil, Vancouver looks much bigger than other similar-sized (and some much larger) NA metros. We might not have the height but we've got the density, and both are improving all the time. Something worth keeping in mind is that the city has been dramatically transformed over the last two decades despite the overwhelming NIMBYism. I have no doubt that this upcoming decade will be as (if not more) transformational than the last two have been. Vancouver might not yet be the city some of us forumers wish it already were, but it will get there soon enough.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by raggedy13

For a metro of 2.4 mil, Vancouver looks much bigger than other similar-sized (and some much larger) NA metros. We might not have the height but we've got the density, and both are improving all the time. Something worth keeping in mind is that the city has been dramatically transformed over the last two decades despite the overwhelming NIMBYism. I have no doubt that this upcoming decade will be as (if not more) transformational than the last two have been. Vancouver might not yet be the city some of us forumers wish it already were, but it will get there soon enough.

agreed. I've seen vancouver change dramatically since 1991 when I first came here. I believe the next 5 - 10 years here are going to bear witness to remarkable change, more than even the past 20 or so. What has changed now, it seems, is a desire to grow up, rather than just being happy with pretending to be grown up. Vancouver has had very strict parents but they are finally allowing her to wear makeup and stay out a bit later.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by Spoolmak

Vancouver looks like a city of well over 600,000. So if you think about it, it really is a "village" that looks like a mega city.

Wow, some village!

[Metro-One]

Also the Vancouver "proper" borders are very arbitrary boundaries. Most Metro's in the world would have expanded the borders by now.

Vancouver, Burnaby and New Westminster are undeniably 1 continuous urban fabric. One could argue to include Coquitlam, Port Moody and PoCo in that fabric as well.

Richmond is also continuous if it were not for the Fraser River, same with portions of Surrey. North Van and West Van are the same if it were not for the Burrard Inlet.


It is just like saying Osaka's population is 2.6 million. That is only the official boundaries of Osaka proper. The true Osaka urban fabric is 18 million people.

[Locked In]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Those of us who were here remember the city as being better in a lot of ways back then.

Growth has brought benefits but also a lot of negatives. I don't know why SSPers are so dismissive of differing beliefs.

I am genuinely curious - what are some of the many ways in which you see Vancouver as having been better prior to 1986 and the post-expo boom?

Besides lower housing costs, I don't hear too many long-time residents waxing nostalgic about Vancouver in the 70s or 80s - just the opposite, actually. I'd be interested to hear your view.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

When you say that Vancouver is succeeding in looking like a village, what do you mean?

Do you mean that it has a small-town mentality for a city its size, or do you mean something else?

Originally Posted by Spoolmak

Vancouver looks like a city of well over 600,000. So if you think about it, it really is a "village" that looks like a mega city.

By necessity, Vancouver has a gigantic skyline and looks like a mega city from a distance. But everything else, from street design to detailing of our high-rise podiums, to the nicely-scaled retail strips, the notion of "neighbourly" massing and soft-scapes, oozes village ambiance. It's definitely a small-town mentality. I like it, for parts of the city; sometimes we take it too far. A lot of Torontonians I know are quite critical of the city's look and feel... it's certainly not designed for the big-city types.

[SpongeG]

but why do people keep saying it was so much better in the 80's?

cause it was affordable?

they couldn't drink on sundays?

they didn't have skytrain which brought in suburbanites to their city?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Locked In

I am genuinely curious - what are some of the many ways in which you see Vancouver as having been better prior to 1986 and the post-expo boom?

Besides lower housing costs, I don't hear too many long-time residents waxing nostalgic about Vancouver in the 70s or 80s - just the opposite, actually. I'd be interested to hear your view.

I would think "besides lower housing costs" would (or should) be a pretty big plus in anybody's book who lives in Metro Vancouver. especially since wages haven't come close to keeping up with them.

I'm not sure what long-term residents you've been talking to, but here's a few big pluses for pre-86 Vancouver that come to mind:
- No beggars on every streetcorner downtown, and in most of the city's commercial areas.
- A DTES that wasn't full of the drugged out walking dead, openly doing and dealing drugs.
- A road system that was capable of actually handling the city's traffic.
- Affordable post-secondary education

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by whatnext

- No beggars on every streetcorner downtown, and in most of the city's commercial areas.
- A DTES that wasn't full of the drugged out walking dead, openly doing and dealing drugs.
- A road system that was capable of actually handling the city's traffic.
- Affordable post-secondary education

Rose colored glasses? IMO some things were better in those days, but certainly none of the things you mention:

- There were still beggars in those days; perhaps you are too young to remember. Granville Mall was rife with them and at least as dangerous as today.
- Those people were in Riverview rather than DTES; is that a net positive situation? Riverview was closed for a reason, even if that was not handled ideally.
- The road system was not better than today, in many ways it was worse. In the absence of Alex Fraser, the Port Mann and Massey were at least as badly congested as today. Arthur Laing had no ramps for Richmond traffic. Cassiar was worse than anything we have today, and the Upper Levels Hwy was a nightmare due to Lonsdale/Westview and the lack of mid-island ferry route. There was no Marine Way or Boundary hill, Barnet was a tiny road always clogged, Queensborough went nowhere. It took over 6 hours to get to Kamloops or Kelowna and 3 hours to get to Whistler, both very dangerous routes clogged with truck traffic.
- Inflation has roughly halved the value of the dollar from 1985 to 2010. Tuition fees at UBC have gone up about 2.5X in that span. I have trouble getting on board with this complaint because I went through in the middle of some high tuition hike years (early 90's), without a cent of award or grant, and was able to make it work.

[SpongeG]

the DTES has had its problems since the late 1800's

there was an interesting show on the Knowledge Network once about it - basically all port cities the world over have a seedy area that doesn't exist in non-port cities and its part of the fabric of the city

hookers used to be in the west end and it was much seedier than the family friendly west end of today

just from the 90's - granville had way more sex shops and peep shows, there were way more stripper bars, richards, seymour and nelson were full of hookers at night - there don't seem to be that many anymore - condos seems to have flushed most of em out and the internet probably lets them "work from home" so they don't have to get on the street

beggars have been around since the time of moses we will never get rid of them

DTES problem goes to show what all those social agencies have beenn doing for the past two decades DOESN'T WORK

Post Secondary education I don't know how that factors in - people gladly take out loans for house - why not education?

Wages - we can't expect retail or baristas to be making $20 an hour - that cost just goes to the consumer in the end - no matter what increase they make its only going to push prices up - the business world has changed a lot since the 80's - they all need to please their stockholders now

the whole job situation is completely different - even from when i started in 1994 - nowadays its common to have a contract in most places and once its over you move onto the next one - its happenning the world over - that never happenned in 1994. When i got laid off last year they sent us to a course that went through job hunting and changes etc and how things have changed even for them and their perspective of what they teach and you just go from place to place and will end up working in many places over the time of your career - all the people I know in IT or graphic design, hospital work all work on the contract to contract basis its common these days and completely foreign to me