Calgary Street Naming conventions

[DizzyEdge]

I thought I'd tackle crooked rain's last point:

"- A lot of Sunalta was removed to plow Crowchild and Bow Trals through."

Crowchild surprisingly seemed to have removed almost none of Sunalta/Scarboro, other than roads printed on maps, as the area it went between them was a former sandstone quarry, so had not been built upon. Bow Trail on the other hand, took out 1 1/2 blocks of Sunalta, including around 20 homes.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by Jimby

Interesting, thanks! Brewery Flats is a name I have never heard before - where exactly was it? The residential area west of the brewery south of 9th Ave?

This photo from glenbow.org has as one of it's tags "Brewery Flats"

[freeweed]

Interesting talk about old roads.

I just spent another glorious weekend in the mountains (it was pretty much sunny the whole time, north of Hwy 11) and hiked some more old highway and the jeep road leading to the Saskatchewan Glacier. Those of you interested in abandoned roads should really check out just how much is left of the original Banff-Jasper road. Dozens of kilometers of abandoned pavement, old stone bridges, you name it, it's still there. It's amazing how narrow those old roads were - people certainly didn't drive SUVs back then.

Here's a particularly intact section. Complete with 3 bridges, all of which still stand. Further north the bridges are just about all washed out from what I've found.

It would be kinda neat to spend a summer documenting the route and what's left. I found graffiti dated 1940 on one of the bridges, that was kind of cool.

When you guys described old pavement under parks, and how we don't just abandon road material anymore, it made me think of all this. There's all sorts of abandoned roads in the mountains.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Interesting talk about old roads.

I just spent another glorious weekend in the mountains (it was pretty much sunny the whole time, north of Hwy 11) and hiked some more old highway and the jeep road leading to the Saskatchewan Glacier. Those of you interested in abandoned roads should really check out just how much is left of the original Banff-Jasper road. Dozens of kilometers of abandoned pavement, old stone bridges, you name it, it's still there. It's amazing how narrow those old roads were - people certainly didn't drive SUVs back then.

Here's a particularly intact section. Complete with 3 bridges, all of which still stand. Further north the bridges are just about all washed out from what I've found.

It would be kinda neat to spend a summer documenting the route and what's left. I found graffiti dated 1940 on one of the bridges, that was kind of cool.

When you guys described old pavement under parks, and how we don't just abandon road material anymore, it made me think of all this. There's all sorts of abandoned roads in the mountains.

It's almost a shame how much we 'clean up' building sites these days, future archeologists won't have anything to find.

[McMahon]

The abandoned road Freeweed mentioned sounds amazing. I wish I could drive.

On the same note, I mentioned in another thread about the new feature on Google Earth with older aerial images. I was looking at the old 37th Street today and it looks like parts of it are still there. Anybody confirm/deny?

[mersar]

SW? Nope, they ripped it pretty much all out including the old bridge. It wasn't much more then a 1 lane gravel road from what I recall so it wasn't much to rip out

[freeweed]

Hey gang,

Not sure that this one was covered or not... according to Wikipedia, Balzac was originally known as "Beddington". So, Beddington Trail.

It's funny how this all ties in somehow or another.

[Oliver Klozov]

Originally Posted by freeweed

... according to Wikipedia, Balzac was originally known as "Beddington"....

Not too sure about that one. Before it was annexed by Calgary, Country Hills Boulevard was called - Beddington-Delacour Road. Delacour is way east of Hwy 2. I had always assumed that Beddington was to the west of Hwy 2. B-D road went straight west from Hwy 2 but where CHB curves to the southwest it continued west to a junction with the old Centre Street. It wasn't much of a road west of there but followed the alignment of what is now a bike path. I believe it ended at what was then Simons Valley Road (now Beddington Trail). The alignment was not developed over because there is a major water main below it which comes from the reservoir at the top of the hill. Perhaps the whole part of Rockyview to west of Hwy 2, including Balzac was known as Beddington.

[DizzyEdge]

Wasn't there a Beddington train station or something?

[Oliver Klozov]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Wasn't there a Beddington train station or something?

I believe you're bang on!

From the history of the C&E Railway:

...... The official sod turning occurred in Calgary on July 21, 1890. Construction commenced in July with rail reaching Red Deer within two months. The bridge crossing the Bow was completed by the fall and the crew moved north to build over the Red Deer River during the winter. This delayed northerly progress until the spring, but rail service to Red Deer commenced almost immediately.

Towns and villages developed around the sidings and stations along the line. North from Calgary these points were Burnson (siding), Beddington, Balzac (siding), Airdrie, Crossfield, Wessex (siding), Carstairs, Disdsbury, Rosebud (siding), Olds, Neetook (siding), Bowden, Innisfail, Penhold and Tuttle (siding), finally arriving in Red Deer. .....

I think Burnson siding (Memorial to 16th) is now called Bengal and Beddington (the small yard below CHB) is now called Petro by CP.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Also notice that Macleod Tr north of 34th ave is named Victoria Rd, whereas Macleod Tr continues on through the cemetery and through Ramsay (where Spiller Rd goes now). A few years ago I spotted a remaining sidewalk stamp on spiller that read Macleod Trail, but it's probably gone now.

That alignment of Macleod Trail north of 34th Ave actually makes sense, since it ends up near Fort Calgary. It shouldn't surprise anyone that the "Wagon Trail to Fort Macleod" has morphed over the years in name and construction (and traffic).

Just like the old "Trail to Fort Edmonton" on the north side of the Bow.

In Red Deer there are still parts of the "Trail to Fort Calgary and Fort Edmonton" through the downtown, that Old Timers still call "the C&E Trail", even though the 'new' Highway 2 (QE2) west of town has been there for decades.

And of course, there is a "Calgary Trail" in Edmonton tracing parts of the old "Trail to Fort Calgary"

Gotta love the good old days before pollsters and marketing gurus gave us pointless names like "Willow Breeze" or "Tuscany View".

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by srperrycgy

Found these old maps (1966) in my files:

Has anyone noticed that John Laurie Blvd was supposed to continue north of 48th Ave between North Haven and Thorncliffe?

Today, it's a nice park that stretches from JLB/ 48th/ McKnight to near 14th St & 64th Ave.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

I never knew what those buildings were (RCAF Equip Depot), now I know.. here's a before and after I had sitting on my harddrive, I think the before is around 1950, the after is a couple years ago

Which begs the question: Why would the RCAF have their equipment depot there, rather than Lincoln Park Air Field (today's MRC University), or McCall Air Field?

With the close proximity to the rail lines, My guess is it was the trans-shipment location between rail & trucks.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Interesting talk about old roads.

....

When you guys described old pavement under parks, and how we don't just abandon road material anymore, it made me think of all this. There's all sorts of abandoned roads in the mountains.

The section of parkland south of John Laurie Blvd between 19th St and 14th St W was unofficially used as a football & soccer area by the neighbourhood kids. This is in the days when moms were "housemakers", dads were "wage earners" and kids were told "Get out of the house & play; I don't want to see you in the house again until lunch time!".

There were dozens of us kids just kicking the soccer ball around when one of them made a terrific kick to make a goal before heading home. He missed the ball, but a sliver of sod & a chunk of asphalt must have flown 20 feet.

Forget soccer! We've discovered the remains of a Lost Civilization!

Which turned out to be the remains of the original 2 lane road that was replaced by JLB when it was built & shifted further north away from the houses.

Meanwhile we'd dug up so much sod exposing the asphalt, the city had to scrape off a large amount of the thin grass covering roadway, lay down a really thick layer of dirt & re-seed it (leaving the asphalt there for future generations to discover).

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Interesting talk about old roads.

...

When you guys described old pavement under parks, and how we don't just abandon road material anymore, it made me think of all this. There's all sorts of abandoned roads in the mountains.

When you're on the TCH near Field BC, east of the Spiral Tunnels viewpoint there is an old bridge that I thought was part of the original TCH built in the 1950s. I've now found out that I was only partly correct. The bridge was apparently part of 'The Big Hill' trackage that the CPR put in between Lake Louise and Field during the original construction in the 1880s. The grade over the Kicking Horse Pass and the Big Hill down to Field was over 4%. I'm impressed that a bridge from the mid-1880s is still intact, although I'm unsure how safe it is.

Field was where extra engines were added to an EB train to get it up to Lake Louise, where the extra engines were taken off & sent back to Field for the next EB train. Meanwhile WB trains had extra brakemen added before the Pass so that the handbrakes were operated on each car to prevent a runaway down to Field. Still, there were plenty of wrecks over the years with rusting hulks still scattered along the old trackbed. 100 years ago this year, the Spiral Tunnels were opened and the grade was to lowered closer to 2%, so the "Big Hill" trackage was abandoned.

When it came time to build the TCH in the 1950s, the "Big Hill" trackage was rehabbed into a road for cars. From the stories passed down through the years, the road was barely wide enough for two cars to pass. Looking at the abandoned TCH roadway (nee railway) bridge, they must have been the ultimate test of driving skills, since they were just one lane wide. Because the Big Hill still had it's 4+% grade, it was also a test of your brakes and engine braking skills when heading west to Field, and you'd be crawling along in low gear all the way the way up to top of the Pass when heading East. Tow truck drivers from Field and Lake Louise were certainly kept busy with locked-up brakes and overheated engines, or worse.

Smart drivers at the time knew if they made it up the Big Hill and over the Pass to Lake Louise, they'd better pull into town, park at the nearest garage, go for lunch or a snack & let the engine cool off. If the car started again, fill up on gas & water before continuing on to Calgary. More than a few cars didn't pass this test, so while the garage repaired the car, the family spent a day (or so) enjoying the local scenery.

[freeweed]

I think this is the bridge you mean.

Interesting story. I didn't realize the full history of that bridge.

[YYCguys]

Currently, the road running north/south through Stampede Park is called Stampede Trail, but going north out of the park, it is called Olympic Way, and that turns into 4 Street, which when the underpass is built, will be a continuous road from the Bow River to the south edge of Stampede Park. I hope that the roadway will get treated to one single name, like 4 Street or something because it is my pet peeve that continious roadways in this city have all sorts of names!

[mersar]

Well I'm suspecting that we'll probably see Olympic Way disappear, since the Stampede is calling the retail development Stampede Trail, which would then make sense to rename at least the 12th ave to 14th ave section to that, leaving the 12th to 10th as Olympic way at the most. And since 10th ave will be cut off from 4th street anyways, that leaves potentially a single block left with that old name

[tmjr]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

Currently, the road running north/south through Stampede Park is called Stampede Trail, but going north out of the park, it is called Olympic Way, and that turns into 4 Street, which when the underpass is built, will be a continuous road from the Bow River to the south edge of Stampede Park. I hope that the roadway will get treated to one single name, like 4 Street or something because it is my pet peeve that continious roadways in this city have all sorts of names!

Agreed - I wish roads just had a single name.

But I think what's far worse is when two completely separate roads have the same name. Many examples come to mind, such as Sarcee Trail north and south of the Bow, 14th St north and south of the Glenmore reservoir, or my favorite, FOUR disconnected roads called Voyageur Dr. NW near Shaganappi around 40th ave. NW/Varsity Dr.!

I can imagine that at some point in time these roads were either connected or intended to be connected. Then either because of newer construction or decisions made, they were disconnected/left disconnected.

There is some method to the madness in that roads of roughly the same alignment have the same name, giving you an idea of how far from city center a particular address is (kind of like a civic 'longitude/latitude' system). But I think the overall, the net effect is confusion, especially for those not familiar with the way things work.

"I live on Voyageur Dr. - no not that one, the other... oh let me just draw you a map..."

With all that said, I can't think of a straightforward 'fix' to the 'problem'...

T.

[mersar]

Named roads that are disconnected I can understand the confusion, numbered streets however are a different case. But you are right, there is no straightforward fix that would be easy to do, the inconvenience of renaming them likely would outweigh the problems from leaving them as is.