Sacramento International Airport (SMF)

[travis bickle]

Please remember, there are few industries as rampant with baseless rumors (often nothing more than wishful thinking) as is the airline industry - particularly when it comes to new service.

The airport master plan forecasts 5x/week flights to London in 2015. This master plan actually understated future SMF totals e.g. - it didn't forecast any service to Hawaii - which is now a daily 767 (Honolulu - over 225 pax/day) and a daily 737 (Maui - over 120 pax/day).

I understand that SMF actually has enough traffic right now to support service to London (officially something like 150/day). The difficulties include facilities - Interim International Arrivals building (old commuter terminal) completely inadequate for the larger aircraft (think 767) required for European service and runways only 8600 ft - which is too short (especially in Summer)for a filled and fully fueled 767 to make it to Europe. Another is the traffic distribution - obviously these 150 pax/day are spread out over several airlines and getting them to leave their FF programs, even for non-stop service, is not easy and the new non-stop service will not capture all of them. And of course, having SFO just a hundred or so miles down the road doesn't help attracting international service to SMF; nor does $100/bbl oil prices.

Having said all that, I am told the following:

New terminal will have two international gates capable of accommodating large, long-range aircraft.

Boeing 787 - set to enter service by 2009, can use existing SMF runways without weight restrictions and has necessary range. It will probably be configured to carry around 225-250 pax.

SMF officials have already entered into informal "discussions" (not quite "negotiations" yet) with British Airways to serve Sacramento with non-stop service to London Heathrow. It was described to me as, "Well, they take our phone calls now..." They have also spoken with executives from Lufthansa for service to Frankfort. They have, so far, had better receptions from those airlines than they have any American-based airlines.

Airport officials are targeting service to start between 2012 and 2015. They are actively working to secure this service. They expect to start speaking with the new European LCC airline "Zoom" (will soon start service to San Diego) later this year.

The people with whom I have spoken put their money on 2014. That's just six years.

My own guess? I'll go with the airport people... 2014.

[Majin]

What is the problem with widening runways as part of the expansion project? Not enough money?

[BrianSac]

Originally Posted by travis bickle

Please remember, there are few industries as rampant with baseless rumors (often nothing more than wishful thinking) as is the airline industry - particularly when it comes to new service.

The airport master plan forecasts 5x/week flights to London in 2015. This master plan actually understated future SMF totals e.g. - it didn't forecast any service to Hawaii - which is now a daily 767 (Honolulu - over 225 pax/day) and a daily 737 (Maui - over 120 pax/day).

I understand that SMF actually has enough traffic right now to support service to London (officially something like 150/day). The difficulties include facilities - Interim International Arrivals building (old commuter terminal) completely inadequate for the larger aircraft (think 767) required for European service and runways only 8600 ft - which is too short (especially in Summer)for a filled and fully fueled 767 to make it to Europe. Another is the traffic distribution - obviously these 150 pax/day are spread out over several airlines and getting them to leave their FF programs, even for non-stop service, is not easy and the new non-stop service will not capture all of them. And of course, having SFO just a hundred or so miles down the road doesn't help attracting international service to SMF; nor does $100/bbl oil prices.

Having said all that, I am told the following:

New terminal will have two international gates capable of accommodating large, long-range aircraft.

Boeing 787 - set to enter service by 2009, can use existing SMF runways without weight restrictions and has necessary range. It will probably be configured to carry around 225-250 pax.

SMF officials have already entered into informal "discussions" (not quite "negotiations" yet) with British Airways to serve Sacramento with non-stop service to London Heathrow. It was described to me as, "Well, they take our phone calls now..." They have also spoken with executives from Lufthansa for service to Frankfort. They have, so far, had better receptions from those airlines than they have any American-based airlines.

Airport officials are targeting service to start between 2012 and 2015. They are actively working to secure this service. They expect to start speaking with the new European LCC airline "Zoom" (will soon start service to San Diego) later this year.

The people with whom I have spoken put their money on 2014. That's just six years.

My own guess? I'll go with the airport people... 2014.

Well, this is very encouraging especialy considering 787's can use the shorter runways.

I am trying to find statistics on how many Sacramentans/Cental Valley people use SFO and where to they go internationally from SFO.

You would think we could handle a non-stop to Tokyo as well. There are plenty of asian folk in Sacramento/Cental Valley . Granted, we do not have a corporate business base that San Jose/Oakland/SF has but a once a week non-stop might work. At one time SJ had an American Airlines non-stop to Tokyo and few other places in Japan or China. Currently, I think both San Jose and Oakland have no non-stops to Europe or Asia.

Interesting to note, many of our international flights originating at SMF rarely connect through SFO or LAX, if they do, they usaully add many hours to flight times.

Regarding our US Airways flights, why Charlotte and not Boston? Is it because Charlotte is a hub?

[travis bickle]

You would think we could handle a non-stop to Tokyo as well. There are plenty of asian folk in Sacramento/Central Valley.

This is, in my view, another problem with the airport's master plan. It discounts any future market to Asia. I am told there are at least 100/pax a day traveling to the major Asian markets. I am further told this represents a fraction of total Valley/Asia travelers as most book straight from SFO.

If the SMF/BA talks are at this point nothing more than hopeful discussions, anything regarding service to Asia is even less formal - and hopeful - than that. I've heard some talk has taken place with Japan Airlines regarding service to Tokyo. These discussions occurred when airline executives were here negotiating use of SMF for training exercisies. There have also been very informal discussions with Cathay Pacific regarding flights to Hong Kong. If we were to classify any talks with BA regarding service to London as a "ten," any discussions about service to Asia would be considered, at best, a "two."

The airport's international priority at present are flights to Europe. Many airport officials feel that SFO is too much of a detriment to SMF-Asia service in the near future. That would, of course, change if the right opportunity presented itself. Having said all that, the few airport people who have discussed service to Asia think that a 2014-2017 time frame is possible and that anything can happen after the new terminal is completed in 2010.

Regarding our US Airways flights, why Charlotte and not Boston? Is it because Charlotte is a hub?

Yes - the Charlotte hub is one of US Air's most efficient and rapidly growing stations. Although Philly is the main US Air European hub, Charlotte will be used to feed both European traffic and the Caribbean.

[Pistola916]

^
Now that you gave us a timeline regarding Europe and Asia. Has there been any talks for additional Latin America service? Monterrey, a direct flight to Mexico City.

[BrianSac]

Now that we have non-stops to Honolulu, Oahu and Kahalui, Maui, we need a non-stop to both the Big Island and one to Kauai. Many Sacramentans that return to Hawaii repeatedly for their vacations prefer the Big Island and Kauai over Honolulu.

Ever since we obtained the Hawaiian Air and Aloha non-stops, I wondered if there would ever be connections from the east through SMF to Hawaii. Well, it looks like Hawaiian recently added flights from Cleveland through SFO, LAS, LAX, and PHX. Its obvious they chose those cities because they are big markets and tourist destinations in their own right. But SMF is a good size 2nd tier city and it could market itself as an alternative to SFO, Oakland, and Reno regarding travel to the Napa Valley and some cases Tahoe. So, if Hawaiian ever routed flights from Cleveland to Hawaii through SMF, that would be a first step into becoming a mini-mini-mini hub.

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by travis bickle

The people with whom I have spoken put their money on 2014. That's just six years.

My own guess? I'll go with the airport people... 2014.

My guess was off by a year...

Thanks for the insight Travis. I appreciate the inside feedback..

[otnemarcaS]

Originally Posted by BrianSac

Interesting to note, many of our international flights originating at SMF rarely connect through SFO or LAX, if they do, they usaully add many hours to flight times.

True. As someone who's travelled internationally every year for the last decade, most flights I've taken from SMF have connected through Atlanta, Chicago and Minneapolis/St Paul airports. In fact, I eliminate any flights connecting thru SFO or LAX unless I absolutely have little choice. Personally, unless there's a significant cost savings, if you live in Sac there's little reason to go thru SFO. A non-stop from SFO is an automatic one stop from Sac whether you drive or fly connect.

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by otnemarcaS

I eliminate any flights connecting thru SFO or LAX unless I absolutely have little choice. Personally, unless there's a significant cost savings, if you live in Sac there's little reason to go thru SFO. A non-stop from SFO is an automatic one stop from Sac whether you drive or fly connect.

Well said. Personally I've never used bay area airports while living in Sacramento, with the only exception being a last minute flight from Chicago last summer and only because flights were booked solid into SMF. The only time I've used SFO is when i lived in the bay area..

SMF is finally competitive with those airports in terms of cost.

But i will not book an international flights to or from SFO; nor will i connect through SFO, LAX or Phoenix. When i flew to France last June I flew to O'hare and connected there. I'm not going to back track when flying and the best way to improve service from SMF is to fly to/from there whenever possible in order to demonstrate demand. And lastly who the heck wants to put up with the traffic driving to the bay area and then have to wait a couple more hours before your flight? No thanks.

[BrianSac]

Originally Posted by otnemarcaS

True. As someone who's travelled internationally every year for the last decade, most flights I've taken from SMF have connected through Atlanta, Chicago and Minneapolis/St Paul airports. In fact, I eliminate any flights connecting thru SFO or LAX unless I absolutely have little choice. Personally, unless there's a significant cost savings, if you live in Sac there's little reason to go thru SFO. A non-stop from SFO is an automatic one stop from Sac whether you drive or fly connect.

Yes, I agree. The more the non-stops SMF gets the better. I absolutely hate having to go to SFO although it is a really "cool" airport.

Besides, ATL, ORD (Chicago-O'Hare), and MSP, the other main connecting airports to international destinations not counting Asian destinations from SMF would be DIA(Denver), DFW, JFK, IAD (Dulles-Washington DC), and IAH(Houston).

[travis bickle]

Originally Posted by urban_encounter

My guess was off by a year...

Thanks for the insight Travis. I appreciate the inside feedback..

And you could still be right. For non-stop service to London - I'll take either year. As someone who grew up with that airport, the idea that we are realistically contemplating non-stop service to London and that we already have non-stop service to Mexico and Canada is astounding.

[enigma99a]

So when the new terminal B is complete will we finally have a proper int'l customs area? (not a customs shed) and since Sac is now an offical federal port city, they will be providing funding for it?

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by enigma99a

So when the new terminal B is complete will we finally have a proper int'l customs area? (not a customs shed) and since Sac is now an offical federal port city, they will be providing funding for it?

Yes the customs area will be downstairs under the main concourse. Once passengers clear customs their baggage will be put on a conveyor and they will meet up with it in the central terminal baggage claim area, (so they wont have to haul it onto the APM..

(this per the Corgan Assoicate rep i spoke with)

[Jay916]

There's a cool video on youtube about the new terminal
:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85Rmpf1_Wj8

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by Jay916

There's a cool video on youtube about the new terminal
:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85Rmpf1_Wj8

Yeah they had this at the last public workshop.

Thanks for finding this..

Corgan knows how to design airports...

[Ryan@CU]

Originally Posted by Jay916

There's a cool video on youtube about the new terminal
:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85Rmpf1_Wj8

that video is amazing. thanks for sharing

[travis bickle]

I've been hearing all weekend that Aloha Airlines is shutting down all non-cargo operations tomorrow (3.31). The chatter has reached a fever pitch and I'm really starting to worry now. It would really be tragic. My understanding is that the SMF-OGG flight is among their most successful. I hope this is just another vicious rumor, but it's starting to look pretty bad.

[LoneStarMike]

It's true.

Aloha Airlines halting passenger service

By AUDREY McAVOY

HONOLULU

Aloha Airlines said Sunday it will halt all passenger service after Monday, signaling the end of an airline that has served Hawaii for more than 60 years.

Aloha, which filed for bankruptcy for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on March 21, was a casualty of fierce competition and rising fuel prices. The airline said it will stop taking reservations for flights after Monday.

Link to full story

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by travis bickle

My understanding is that the SMF-OGG flight is among their most successful. I hope this is just another vicious rumor, but it's starting to look pretty bad.

Maybe Hawiian will look at Aloha's demise as an opportunity to expand their Island service to/from SMF or maybe United???

[cozmoose]

This past week, we've had three airlines go out of business.
Aloha, ATA, and Skybus.

Is Expressjet next? and if so, what does that mean for SMF?