City of Hamilton General Discussion Thread

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by atnor

Nrinder blocked me on Twitter a couple years ago when I asked if a local community feeling unsafe with an encampment in their park/playground is valid.

Totally expected behaviour from her. This week she posted a thread about how anyone who is against safe injection sites are spreading 'harmful misinformation'. Well of course a bunch of people commented with legitimate concerns about the injection site, and she replied one by one calling them out claiming their position was harmful and hateful.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

The solution is to build a city that is financially solvent. Infill, stopping sprawl, reducing or at least stopping the construction of further depreciating assets like overbuild roads. Increasing the economic activity in the city like attracting industrial and commercial uses (another reason why retail should be included in every new build and neighbourhood).

That's the only way out of it. LRT will help a ton, but other investments in things that reduce costs like bicycle lanes and transit, and increase revenue like abolishing parking minimums and relaxing building regulations to encourage density of all kinds, from duplexes, triplexes and low rise apartments to midrise development through the entire city.

Failing this, Hamilton will continue to struggle financially.

Everyone always says more commercial - but aside from boutique places, with a generation that lives entirely on their phones and buys everything online, what exactly is going to will these places other than restaurants breweries vape places hipster establishments coffee stores and phone stores lol..

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Everyone always says more commercial - but aside from boutique places, with a generation that lives entirely on their phones and buys everything online, what exactly is going to will these places other than restaurants breweries vape places hipster establishments coffee stores and phone stores lol..

I think when they are referring to commercial, they mean more like high revenue commercial. Offices, services, etc. Things that you would see on Mainway in Burlington. or in downtown Toronto. Those are the big money makers.

Small time commercial like coffee shops are nice, and definitely contribute to city taxes. Nothing like a big downtown KPMG or Hatch office would.

Heavy industry like Stelco doesn't actually benefit the tax base as much as you would think. They are a massive consumer of water, electricity, etc. They also damage infrastructure, like how all the roads around the industrial sector are completely destroyed.

This city needs to attract its office workers back to the downtown core, somehow. Not sure how...

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I think when they are referring to commercial, they mean more like high revenue commercial. Offices, services, etc. Things that you would see on Mainway in Burlington. or in downtown Toronto. Those are the big money makers.

Small time commercial like coffee shops are nice, and definitely contribute to city taxes. Nothing like a big downtown KPMG or Hatch office would.

Heavy industry like Stelco doesn't actually benefit the tax base as much as you would think. They are a massive consumer of water, electricity, etc. They also damage infrastructure, like how all the roads around the industrial sector are completely destroyed.

This city needs to attract its office workers back to the downtown core, somehow. Not sure how...

Not gonna happen anytime soon - even as it is people don't want to return to the office, AND hamilton has some of the highest property taxes, it already HAS massive vacancy rates and if businesses can now have people working from home why would they spend money on these spaces downtown? It's definitely an issue.

Perhaps something different can go in - things like say ballet spaces, public types spaces that you go to to do things, lounges, (lol) poetry readings maybe some big arcade places or lazertag etc.

I remember as a kid there used to be a big lazertag place on nash road and the front of it was all arcade stuff while you waited - it was pretty sweet. We should have people in the core go out of their places and be like "alright what are we gonna do for fun tonight".

I hate the fact there are all these buildings in the core and I never have been in them or never can ever go into them - I'd love the gore park area to be entirely accessible to everyone.

Or just convert them back to living spaces like they originally were supposed to be - at least the parts above the main floor. I have noticed a lot of airbnbs seeping back into the city so that's always an option too - maybe we could have some hostels too for those traveling here. Just a big room with shared living quarters.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Not gonna happen anytime soon - even as it is people don't want to return to the office, AND hamilton has some of the highest property taxes, it already HAS massive vacancy rates and if businesses can now have people working from home why would they spend money on these spaces downtown? It's definitely an issue.

Perhaps something different can go in - things like say ballet spaces, public types spaces that you go to to do things, lounges, (lol) poetry readings maybe some big arcade places or lazertag etc.

I remember as a kid there used to be a big lazertag place on nash road and the front of it was all arcade stuff while you waited - it was pretty sweet. We should have people in the core go out of their places and be like "alright what are we gonna do for fun tonight".

I hate the fact there are all these buildings in the core and I never have been in them or never can ever go into them - I'd love the gore park area to be entirely accessible to everyone.

Or just convert them back to living spaces like they originally were supposed to be - at least the parts above the main floor. I have noticed a lot of airbnbs seeping back into the city so that's always an option too - maybe we could have some hostels too for those traveling here. Just a big room with shared living quarters.

I somewhat disagree. I think the office vacancy rate will fall sharply in the next 5 or so years as more professionals move into the downtown. It will become a more attractive place for these companies to set up.

Also, as an office worker myself. It's becoming very apparent that most companies are getting quite annoyed with the work from home culture. The calls back to the office are becoming more frequent. The fact is covid is long over, and lockdowns won't be returning. Working from home has a clear impact on financial performance, and it's not a good one. Work from home is here to stay, but not 5 days a week. Perhaps 1.

[Chronamut]

lol yes it's definitely being resisted - like they are pressuring us, but the problem with me is all the people I work with are in another branch and the office they want me to work out of doesn't have anyone i work with and is largely vacant - so it's a matter of principle - why go back to an office, just to BE in an office? And they've redesigned everything to be transient and clinical, hotel stations to sit down and work at - I want a place of my own that feels cozy and warm, they're gonna find if we're gonna go back to an office you need to keep that in mind.

As for professionals moving into the downtown over the years, neither of us can predict that - I mean stelco tower is STILL largely vacant - the olympia club still doesn't have a first floor tenant - I tend to be a bit more on the jaded side so I will need to be "convinced".

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

lol yes it's definitely being resisted - like they are pressuring us, but the problem with me is all the people I work with are in another branch and the office they want me to work out of doesn't have anyone i work with and is largely vacant - so it's a matter of principle - why go back to an office, just to BE in an office? And they've redesigned everything to be transient and clinical, hotel stations to sit down and work at - I want a place of my own that feels cozy and warm, they're gonna find if we're gonna go back to an office you need to keep that in mind.

As for professionals moving into the downtown over the years, neither of us can predict that - I mean stelco tower is STILL largely vacant - the olympia club still doesn't have a first floor tenant - I tend to be a bit more on the jaded side so I will need to be "convinced".

I mean there's literally thousands and thousands of new condo units either under construction or proposed within just a few hundred metres of Gore Park. I suspect most of the people who will be living in them are office workers.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I mean there's literally thousands and thousands of new condo units either under construction or proposed within just a few hundred metres of Gore Park. I suspect most of the people who will be living in them are office workers.

Office workers who are commuting out of town most of them ironically. But if its condos it may also be a lot of retired couples looking to downsize too - they may not be working at all. There is still the argument to be made that the jobs downtown do not pay enough to allow the people affordable wages to LIVE in those condos - those condos are NOT cheap - what jobs will they have downtown that will pay them the what.. 40-50 dollars an hour needed to live in these places..?

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Honestly I don't really know what the solution is. But the way council and City Hall is run right now isn't working. Every day I drive on the roads here and it's honestly appalling. Yet we hear stories about council members wasting tax payer money arguing about "old stock Canadians" and other nonsense. Like can we at least get some value for the massive amount of taxes we pay each year?

You do realize that the majority of councilors are conservatives. So what you are saying is conservatives don't know how to run things. Hamilton has traditionally had a majority on council of conservatives. While Toronto with the lowest property taxes in the province has been majority left leaning.

Things started to go downhill in this city when the Harris conservative government downloaded responsibilities to the cities without proper funding.

[LikeHamilton]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Heavy industry like Stelco doesn't actually benefit the tax base as much as you would think. They are a massive consumer of water, electricity, etc. They also damage infrastructure, like how all the roads around the industrial sector are completely destroyed.

The problem with very large companies is the opposite. Large companies like Stelco and Dofasco have their own water treatment plants and waste water treatment plants. They both have their own Police/Security service, Fire Department with their own fire trucks. Dofasco has their own Ambulances and small hospital on site. I know Stelco had their own Ambulances. Both have their own roads department and most likely make their own electricity.

And because of this, they ask for through the province to have their taxes reduced because they do not use city services. And they have always won and they pay very little compared to their size in taxes to the city. That is why Burlington Street is a mess always. The large trucks going to both companies tear up the roads and the city cannot afford to be constantly replacing them.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

The problem with very large companies is the opposite. Large companies like Stelco and Dofasco have their own water treatment plants and waste water treatment plants. They both have their own Police/Security service, Fire Department with their own fire trucks. Dofasco has their own Ambulances and small hospital on site. I know Stelco had their own Ambulances. Both have their own roads department and most likely make their own electricity.

And because of this, they ask for through the province to have their taxes reduced because they do not use city services. And they have always won and they pay very little compared to their size in taxes to the city. That is why Burlington Street is a mess always. The large trucks going to both companies tear up the roads and the city cannot afford to be constantly replacing them.

Perhaps Stelco wasn't the best example, as you're right they have much of their own services.

I'm more so referring to all the other mid to large sized industries that surround the area. They definitely are a drain on services and destroy the infrastructure at the same time.

[Innsertnamehere]

The industrial tax rate in Hamilton is 4.3%, vs 1.2% of assessed value for residential.

Stelco’s vacant lands were assessed as literally worthless by MPAC a little while ago, just before selling for half a billion. Correcting that alone could net the city millions in additional annual revenue - and that is for vacant, polluted industrial land. A fully redeveloped Stelco could end up paying the city millions of additional annual revenue, with minimal new infrastructure for the city to service.

It’s why Stelco’s redevelopment is so exciting. The city has massive amounts of overbuilt infrastructure with Nikola Tesla, Burlington St, etc sitting down there basically rotting, and can leverage that to substantially increase its tax base.

The airport employment growth area is similar. Industrial sprawl really pays for itself from a municipal finance side of things as it pays way higher taxes and needs much less municipal infrastructure than residential sprawl.

Residential sprawl is the financial killer, it takes an absolute ton of municipal infrastructure to service uses with very low tax payments.

So in other words, with industrial activity finally hitting a stride in the city and urban intensification really taking off at the same time, I suspect the city will be in a much better financial situation in a decade.

Now if we could just convince the province to upload the Linc and Red Hill Valley Parkway.. Hamilton would really be in good shape. Hamilton probably has more regional freeway liabilities than any other municipality in Ontario, which are expensive to maintain and just compound the city’s financial liabilities.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

You do realize that the majority of councilors are conservatives. So what you are saying is conservatives don't know how to run things. Hamilton has traditionally had a majority on council of conservatives. While Toronto with the lowest property taxes in the province has been majority left leaning.

Things started to go downhill in this city when the Harris conservative government downloaded responsibilities to the cities without proper funding.

I'm not sure about the political makeup of city council, but they've had to deal with this problem for about 25 years now. The feds downloaded onto the provinces, and the provinces onto their municipalities... neither senior government providing the means for the "lowest" one to generate enough revenue to pay for all the stuff that was handed down to them!

For an older and well-established city like Hamilton that financial impact was huge, and continues to be. We've dealt with an economic transition and a governance transition. Social too, though we can expect more of that and always should have.

I'm a bit of an optimist, and think our economic transition (which has been VERY difficult, going on four decades now) has begun to turn toward an upswing. That will help with city finances. I think we can and will accommodate the planned population increase, in a mostly sustainable way. But senior government focus on the home runs (battery plants, factories, large investments, etc.) misses all the little things that actually do the most to support the municipal and by extension provincial and national economies... this is where city staff have to be vigilant in a way that the supposedly higher levels are not. And it's what's missing when the Ford gov't says we have to commit to 47,000 new dwellings by 2051. Yeah, we need homes for the people. We need them to be working somewhere too... what's your plan for that Dougie? Doubt the cities will get much help planning and building those houses though, nor for the employment they'll need, if the market doesn't provide that by nature... the pessimist in me sees this as more downloads.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

And it's what's missing when the Ford gov't says we have to commit to 47,000 new dwellings by 2051. Yeah, we need homes for the people. We need them to be working somewhere too... what's your plan for that Dougie?

THIS is the million dollar question.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

THIS is the million dollar question.

Our so-called leader will point his finger back at the federal government. But at the same time, it will be "don't dare meddle with the towns and cities... those are OURS"

I had a professor in university (early 1990s) who used to remark about how we have no national urban policy. We don't, not then, not now. But the bickering between federal and provincial governments prevents one from being developed. I'm sure he knew all about that, but from a citizen's perspective it's something we need.

Problem is there's no political capital to be gained by it, when there's a federal or provincial election.

[spaghettisam]

I do not believe that the job situation will be one we have to worry about. The people who are living in new dwellings obviously have the money to do so. With the increased amount of people (especially of higher income), there is inevitably more demand for workers and services in all aspects of the broad economic environment - job creation. I think some of the reason so much growth is occurring in the first place is due to the economic opportunity that exists here regardless. And yes, some people will use Hamilton as a hub to commute elsewhere to work, but so what? Their economic dollars are still being circulated in Hamilton at the end of the day. The fact that the worker who commutes to Toronto from Hamilton even exists is important and creates opportunities for employment in Hamilton.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by spaghettisam

I do not believe that the job situation will be one we have to worry about. The people who are living in new dwellings obviously have the money to do so. With the increased amount of people (especially of higher income), there is inevitably more demand for workers and services in all aspects of the broad economic environment - job creation. I think some of the reason so much growth is occurring in the first place is due to the economic opportunity that exists here regardless. And yes, some people will use Hamilton as a hub to commute elsewhere to work, but so what? Their economic dollars are still being circulated in Hamilton at the end of the day. The fact that the worker who commutes to Toronto from Hamilton even exists is important and creates opportunities for employment in Hamilton.

The problem with this is it pushes existing hamilton people out into the fringes because they can no longer afford to work and live here, as people from toronto or who are from here and work in toronto take up all the living spaces. We need jobs HERE to support our population, not just in toronto, and the wages for them need to match the cost of living. We also don't want the sorta down to earth friendly vibe of hamilton to be replaced with the cold self centered big city vibe a lot of toronto can bring - and it does exist so don't hate me over that comment. We cannot lose our identity and just become a bedroom community otherwise we might as well just get absorbed into the GTA.

The GTA has shat on hamiltons image for decades, so needless to say we're not just gonna roll over now that suddenly hamilton is more inviting to toronto because its relatively cheaper to them, or because toronto jobs are inviting to hamiltonians. Toronto cannot forever be the ONLY big independent city - hamilton has just as much potential to be its own grand city, but hopefully without the big city arrogance that can go with it of "knowing" you're "great".

[Fruitloops]

Vote on 6.7% budget increase upcoming.

A few thoughts.

Some of our higher fixed costs need a reboot. When inflation was 0 to 1% for many years a loy of city employees (police and fire to name a couple) enjoyed wage increases in the 2 to 3 % range. Better not come to the table now wanting to keep pace with inflation. Dont recall anyone wanting to give back when you were ahead of the curve. Plus simple math, your % increase now is a lot of money.

Many city employees got 1%, they have a case and hope they are taken care of.

Sharing is caring, not all pigs are created equal.

Also, invoking my taxpayer priledge:
do I want more bike lanes now, do we need a climate officer now, do council need increases to their office budgets now OR should we fix the roads, tend to the homeless etc.

Full disclosure, my property taxes will be 7k, very average home, do I get value??
Fast approaching the get out of dodge breaking point.

[Crapht]

Just putting this out there but expanding the bike lanes IS fixing the roads.

[Fruitloops]

that bike lane along the goat path between Wellington and Bay aka King st hasn' helped.