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  #81  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2018, 10:55 PM
BrownTown BrownTown is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
When we talk about Toronto and Vancouver, we have to know that a large portion of the population are of diverse ethnic origin. Transit ridership reflects that same diversity. As a caucasian, I have no reservation of using transit in any Canadian city. Higher transit useage applies to every major Canadian city, coast to coast, regardless of ethnic makeup of the cities.
Sure, but look at Canada's murder rate and then compare it to US inner cities. Homicide rates in cities like New Orleans or Detroit are at similar levels to counties in anarchy like Somalia, not to a first world country. The murder rates in these cities are 30x that of Canada. It's fucking amazing you can feel safe riding transit where you live, but the same simply isn't true for a lot of cities in the US and that's not racism talking, it's cold hard facts. Let's not forget that one of the big reasons that the US suburbs grew so much is because the inner cities became drug and murder infested hellscapes that nobody with any common sense would want to live in unless they simply couldn't afford to leave. The crime rates in the US are actually way DOWN from 1980s levels, but they're still shockingly high by first world standards and a lot of that crime is very concentrated in the inner cities. Let's see your shiny white Canadian self get out at the PATCO City Hall station in Camden late at night for instance and see how safe you feel.
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  #82  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2018, 11:01 PM
montréaliste montréaliste is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
So that is why Toronto transit ridership is higher than most American cities. Who would have thought it?
There you go, in a few succinct words.
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  #83  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2018, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mister F View Post
This is true. Foreign buyers own 3.4% of properties in Toronto and 4.8% in Vancouver.
Oh I stand corrected, it’s so obvious now that foreign investment has had near zero impact on urban development in Vancouver and Toronto!
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  #84  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2018, 11:55 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by BrownTown View Post
Sure, but look at Canada's murder rate and then compare it to US inner cities. Homicide rates in cities like New Orleans or Detroit are at similar levels to counties in anarchy like Somalia, not to a first world country. The murder rates in these cities are 30x that of Canada. It's fucking amazing you can feel safe riding transit where you live, but the same simply isn't true for a lot of cities in the US and that's not racism talking, it's cold hard facts. Let's not forget that one of the big reasons that the US suburbs grew so much is because the inner cities became drug and murder infested hellscapes that nobody with any common sense would want to live in unless they simply couldn't afford to leave. The crime rates in the US are actually way DOWN from 1980s levels, but they're still shockingly high by first world standards and a lot of that crime is very concentrated in the inner cities. Let's see your shiny white Canadian self get out at the PATCO City Hall station in Camden late at night for instance and see how safe you feel.
Yes, nobody should say that Canada and the United States are almost identical. What you have described is a sad cultural difference that needs to be addressed more firmly. It seems that New York City was able to address this quite successfully. I did not feel uncomfortable there late at night. Cities that allow gangs to operate freely are sticking their heads in sand. This is also a failing of the car culture, which to a degree enables this. Streets that are empty of pedestrians promotes criminal activity. And we know that transit brings people to the streets. It is very true that their is safety in numbers.


For the land of opportunity, the United States leaves a significant portion of the population in the dust and creates barriers for many in the lower classes. I suspect this directly relates to many of the crime problems.
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  #85  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 1:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BrownTown View Post
Sure, but look at Canada's murder rate and then compare it to US inner cities. Homicide rates in cities like New Orleans or Detroit are at similar levels to counties in anarchy like Somalia, not to a first world country. The murder rates in these cities are 30x that of Canada. It's fucking amazing you can feel safe riding transit where you live, but the same simply isn't true for a lot of cities in the US and that's not racism talking, it's cold hard facts. Let's not forget that one of the big reasons that the US suburbs grew so much is because the inner cities became drug and murder infested hellscapes that nobody with any common sense would want to live in unless they simply couldn't afford to leave. The crime rates in the US are actually way DOWN from 1980s levels, but they're still shockingly high by first world standards and a lot of that crime is very concentrated in the inner cities. Let's see your shiny white Canadian self get out at the PATCO City Hall station in Camden late at night for instance and see how safe you feel.
This has to be the root cause of it. Even in the Bay Area, typically one of the less violent and segregated American cities, you often hear about people getting robbed, stabbed or shot on trains or at train stations. I get the train every day to work here in Sydney and out to party on the weekends (yes I also have a car at home) and despite the presence of drunk idiots on a friday and saturday night we just don't have this 'transit=danger' thought process that clearly is well-established in America.
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  #86  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 2:56 AM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by Mister F View Post
Wealth has absolutely nothing to do with transit ridership and urban density.
And back in the real world, wealth has everything to do with both.

This thread has basically degenerated to a few Canadian forumers desperately trying to prove that Canadians are just "better". The "we're different, really; we're like Europe!" crowd.

They have vast wealth, apparently, but happily choose to live in a dilapidated Scarborough commieblock and take an hour bus ride to the Loblaws. What sacrifice! Pity those McMansion-dwelling, SUV-riding barbarians to the south. If only they knew the joy of waiting for a bus in pitch-black -6C on glorious Hurontario Road!
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  #87  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 3:06 AM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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But when comparing wealth, perhaps you'd like to compare how many Sak's full-line stores are in Toronto vs Chicago. (hint Toronto has 3x as many), and more Nordstroms, and Holt Renfrews and they aren't all surviving on tourists.
I love this post. I have no doubt it's 100% garbage but it's a prime example of the worst of SSP and dopey homer trolling. Who gives a shit about how many tacky mall stores are in a given metro and what does it have to do with suburban bus ridership? Are all the bus riders in Mississauga headed to Saks to buy Birkin bags?

Toronto has 3 Nordstroms, BTW. Exact same as Detroit! The downtown Toronto Saks is just a small section of Hudson's Bay (basically a Macy's). It's actually much smaller and less impressive than the Detroit Saks. ¡Qué horror!
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  #88  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 4:12 AM
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Sun belt is posting from 2005 I think.

In the real world multifamily construction, much of which infill is at all time highs. Sprawl markets in the sun belt like Phoenix are in the doldrums while New York City has 70000 units under construction.
Do you have actual numbers? The U.S. has added 200 million people since the break out of WW2. The U.S. is forecast to add another 70 million in 30 years.

It's true that cities are seeing reinvestment and some population growth, however the bulk of all the population growth has been and will be outside of central city cores.

Most of the newcomers to the core, are affluent and are less likely to ride public transit even though they have the most access to it.
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  #89  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 4:13 AM
Northern Light Northern Light is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I love this post. I have no doubt it's 100% garbage but it's a prime example of the worst of SSP and dopey homer trolling. Who gives a shit about how many tacky mall stores are in a given metro and what does it have to do with suburban bus ridership? Are all the bus riders in Mississauga headed to Saks to buy Birkin bags?

Toronto has 3 Nordstroms, BTW. Exact same as Detroit! The downtown Toronto Saks is just a small section of Hudson's Bay (basically a Macy's). It's actually much smaller and less impressive than the Detroit Saks. ¡Qué horror!
You are just a despicable human being.

Your reality is an imaginary one in which your opinions are vaguely connected to facts, and in which you are well respected.

This is not the world anyone else lives in.

You are a troll.

You're disliked and disrespected by people of all nationalities, including Americans, because you are a smug, obnoxious individual whose arrogance blinds him to his ignorance about almost everything.

At no point did I or anyone else say 'Canadians' or Torontonians are better than anyone else.

What we did was trash your non-facts which made no sense and have no basis in any reality whatsoever.

That you continually seek to embarrass yourself here, and do so w/great frequency speaks to your inability to exercise self-discipline when obviously put in your place by people far more knowledgeable and less lazy than you (again of all backgrounds, including Americans).

Just stop.

Its not funny, it never was, it ruins the experience for all of us who come here to have intelligent discussions and exchange thoughtful ideas.

You just come here to exhibit hatred and ignorance and to make a fool of yourself.

Mission Accomplished, Solider! You're dismissed.
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  #90  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 4:31 AM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
You are just a despicable human being.
C'mon, stay on topic! It's been quite educational, so far!

I was ready to be regaled with a list of Brampton Walmarts, undoutedly at least 7.5x as many as in LA, and all patronized by deliriously happy and obscenely wealthy bus riders.

Just like Vienna, really!
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  #91  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 4:45 AM
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  #92  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 4:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
This thread has basically degenerated to a few Canadian forumers desperately trying to prove that Canadians are just "better". !
A quick look at google maps will confirm this.
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  #93  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 1:10 PM
Mister F Mister F is offline
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Oh I stand corrected, it’s so obvious now that foreign investment has had near zero impact on urban development in Vancouver and Toronto!
I never claimed anything of the sort.

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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
And back in the real world, wealth has everything to do with both.
What I meant by that is that some of the most densely populated, transit-oriented cities in the world are also some of the richest. That also applies within the United States. That's the real world.

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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
This thread has basically degenerated to a few Canadian forumers desperately trying to prove that Canadians are just "better". The "we're different, really; we're like Europe!" crowd.
Once again I remind you that the article explicitly contrasting Toronto to American cities was posted in the international section of this forum by an American. If you don't want to read posts by Canadians, I suggest that you try the US section.
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  #94  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 1:18 PM
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^ There is an inverse relationship between wealth and transit use within those cities, however. Most of these very wealthy cities also have huge income disparities. Working class Londoners rely on the tube and bus, wealthy Londoners are more likely to take taxis or Ubers.

But, built environment has a lot to do with it as well. If I am going from place to place in my part of London, especially if I’m not alone, I am more likely to use a taxi or Uber. If I’m going 5+ miles across central London, I’ll usually take the tube because it’s much faster than sitting in traffic. NYC is the same. But NYc is probably the only city in North America where the subway has the advantage not just of lower cost, but of faster travel times.
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  #95  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 3:35 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by Mister F View Post
What I meant by that is that some of the most densely populated, transit-oriented cities in the world are also some of the richest. That also applies within the United States. That's the real world.
But within those regions, transit usage and property size is highly correlated with wealth. Even in the NYC region, the least representative NA city, wealthy areas tend to have higher car usage and more land.

And even in Manhattan, highest car ownership % is in wealthiest neighborhood.
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Originally Posted by Mister F View Post
Once again I remind you that the article explicitly contrasting Toronto to American cities was posted in the international section of this forum by an American.
I have no issues with the article, or postings by anyone of any nationality. I provided a long list of reasons why Toronto sprawl has higher transit usage compared to U.S. sprawl equivalents, which resulted in a few silly responses.
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  #96  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 3:59 PM
cannedairspray cannedairspray is offline
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No, there is a better way to shop for food. I’m not going to pretend that it’s entirely subjective to avoid offending snowflakes.

There is a “better” way to shop for food because there are “better” foods, and those fresh, natural foods don’t last long on the shelf or in the fridge. Generally speaking, people who shop more frequently are eating more real foods, and people who come home with 10 bags of groceries every 2 weeks are stocking their pantry with processed foods.

Obviously there are exceptions and we don’t need to go into every last example; but the modern suburban American approach to food shopping is both a product and a partial cause of the modern American diet, which is not good.
Look man, I agree with you, but that's not at all objectively correct. It's hysterical to me because, to get meta, there's a subjectively "better way" to post on internet forums, which in my opinion is to just say factual shit. But there's another "better way" which is just to say goofy funny shit, which is I guess what you're going for. I can't really argue it, just point it out.

If you're going to fidelity, you're failing. But for funsies and laughs? Your posts are doing great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
The funny thing is that Canada and the United States had very similar transit useage up to 1945. Then something fundamentally changed that resulted in a crash in the US between 1945 and 1960. Perhaps, it was post-war wealth, but most western countries had an increase in wealth since World War II. The same pressures existed world wide as far as growing access to cars. But every other country did not wreck their transit systems. So, what were the real causes?
There's two issues, in my opinion. One is that the the US economy and infrastructure wasn't destroyed after the war. That's the definitive, number one reason why the US dominated the 20th century. Everything else is peripheral. So with that in mind, it could explain the difference in mass transit versus personal transit. Or help to.

The other issue is race. That's why the great migration really took effect and really made lots of white people feel uncomfortable. What other country had such a thing then? If there's one, they certainly weren't westernized.
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  #97  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 4:06 PM
cannedairspray cannedairspray is offline
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Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
You are just a despicable human being


Jesus Christ, this is fantastic. When you got mad at me about politics, it sorta made sense. Now you're yelling at someone about...the differences between Chicago and Toronto. Fucking yes, 10023 should like this style of posting, it's hilarious.
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  #98  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 4:49 PM
Northern Light Northern Light is offline
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Originally Posted by cannedairspray View Post


Jesus Christ, this is fantastic. When you got mad at me about politics, it sorta made sense. Now you're yelling at someone about...the differences between Chicago and Toronto. Fucking yes, 10023 should like this style of posting, it's hilarious.
I get mad at you for not having a conscience, which I don't think you do.

Your 'might is right' doctrine is not intellectually or ethically sound.

I get mad at Crawford because he gets his facts completely wrong (non-facts), does no research, makes statements that are not only demonstrably false, but even he know it, before he clicks submit. He also does so, like a good troll just to offend others, and not to contribute to a positive discussion.
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  #99  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 5:12 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
I get mad at Crawford because he gets his facts completely wrong (non-facts),
On the contrary, I presented obvious trans-national distinctions that adequately explain the differences in sprawl ridership. No one has challenged these points; just silly homerish uber-Canadian trolling in an effort to argue that more Syrians riding buses in Mississauga means Canada=Switzerland.

Canada is somewhat poorer than U.S., especially during postwar era.

Canada has a much higher proportion of immigrants.

Canada doesn't have the black-white issues of the U.S.

Canada has much more limited auto infrastructure.
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  #100  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 5:56 PM
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the canada us boarder is the stupidest boarder. its like heres a long line where you can build a few cities on. no wonder there pissed
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