The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind: ‘All of a Sudden the Money Stops Flowing’

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

This discussion can be summed up with this map:


The South and the West are the growth winners. The midwest and Northeast regions are stagnant, low growth. Are there some winners in those regions? Yes, of course, as there should be. I don't think anybody expects to see an across the board decline.

Assuming NYC's population decline proves to be an aberration and that current Upstate NY population trends continue, NYC (just the city, not including LI and the HV) will eventually represent 50% of the state's population! When you factor in the CSA counties, Greater NYC already represents about two-thirds of the state's population (which is equally impressive).

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Population growth has basically nothing to do with wealth, health or mobility.

Except in those metros that are clearly seen on the map, like Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Charleston, Nashville, Seattle, Portland, Boise, Salt Lake City -- etc.

[Steely Dan]

^ well one thing (that's pertinent to this website) that we can divorce from population growth is skyscraper construction.

Over the past two decades, stagnant Chicago has built 3x as many skyscrapers as the entire booming state of texas.

Hell, over that same time frame NYC has built more skyscrapers than the entire south!

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Except in those metros that are clearly seen on the map, like Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Charleston, Nashville, Seattle, Portland, Boise, Salt Lake City -- etc.

No, obviously not true.

Of those random listed metros, really only Seattle is particularly wealthy, healthy, and upwardly mobile. A few fit some of those criteria, like Raleigh-Durham. Most fit none. And Seattle wasn't particularly fast growing until recently, and is no one's idea of a Sunbelt city.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

No, obviously not true.

Of those random listed metros, really only Seattle is particularly wealthy, healthy, and upwardly mobile. A few fit some of those criteria, like Raleigh-Durham. Most fit none. And Seattle wasn't particularly fast growing until recently, and is no one's idea of a Sunbelt city.

Huh? Can't speak for all the sunbelt cities but the one I'm in is certainly upwardly mobile and healthy.

[mhays]

Seattle has grown fairly quickly in most decades. I'm referring to the broader area, like metro etc. The recent change is that growth has been at a high rate within city limits.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

This discussion can be summed up with this map:


The South and the West are the growth winners. The midwest and Northeast regions are stagnant, low growth. Are there some winners in those regions? Yes, of course, as there should be. I don't think anybody expects to see an across the board decline.

A few things that stand out from this map:
- Impact of low oil/gas prices on once-booming areas like Wyoming, North Dakota and western Oklahoma/Texas
- Impact of continued decline of coal-producing areas like Wyoming, West Virginia and eastern Kentucky
- Impact of continued decline in the Mississippi Delta region which is the poorest part of the U.S.
- Continued "emptying" of the semi-arid Great Plains region from Texas to North Dakota
- The "Texas Triangle" between DFW, Houston and Austin/San Antonio is evident due to the sprawly nature of these metros that spread across multiple counties
- Same for the Atlanta, Nashville, Raleigh/Durham and Washington DC metros
- Florida, Arizona and southern Nevada are growing fast again just like they did before the last recession..
- The healthiest metros in the Midwest are evident such as Columbus, Indianapolis, Des Moines, Kansas City and Minneapolis; everywhere else is pretty stagnant
- Colorado and Utah are impressive, they are even growing in their rural counties!

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by JManc

Huh? Can't speak for all the sunbelt cities but the one I'm in is certainly upwardly mobile and healthy.

Definitely same for Austin.

[YSL]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Except in those metros that are clearly seen on the map, like Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Charleston, Nashville, Seattle, Portland, Boise, Salt Lake City -- etc.

On what planet are Salt Lake City, Seattle and Portland sunbelt cities?

[L41A]

RIF



Where in the post stated that the cities listed was in the Sunbelt? Still an example of folk reading/listening to respond/retort.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by YSL

On what planet are Salt Lake City, Seattle and Portland sunbelt cities?

They're not a part of the Sun Belt, they're are a part of the West though.

When I posted the map here's what I said:

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

The South and the West are the growth winners. The midwest and Northeast regions are stagnant, low growth. Are there some winners in those regions? Yes, of course, as there should be. I don't think anybody expects to see an across the board decline.

[Buckeye Native 001]

I'm looking at that map on a phone, but the counties that make up the Columbus, OH metropolitan area appears to be the ones in Ohio showing significant population growth. Weren't Warren County, OH and Butler County, OH once the fastest growing counties in the state or has that changed?

[YSL]

Counties in the United States by per capita income

[subterranean]

[JManc]

These maps don't really paint an accurate picture. Based on my experience of living in Hillsborough county NH which is deep green, there was very little poverty. Looking at that map at face value, you would think it is richer than Suffolk county (Boston) but it sure as shit is not. Here in Harris county (Houston), it is slightly a 'lighter' shade of green than the surrounding counties but there is extreme wealth here...but extreme poverty as well. Unlike the surrounding counties.

[bnk]

Originally Posted by YSL

Counties in the United States by per capita income

That's a very telling map. I see where the wealth is concentrated.
Poor southerners, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and quit taking so much welfare from the Feds, Blue states subsidize and pay more in tax's than the red southern states.

[subterranean]

Poverty is not the best, but it's good. If it were based on local cost of living and not national, it would be better. Honestly the best you could do is take median family income and poverty rate and cross reference those to the geographic cost of living.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by bnk

That's a very telling map. I see where the wealth is concentrated.
Poor southerners, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and quit taking so much welfare from the Feds, Blue states subsidize and pay more in tax's than the red southern states.

Really? If you make 40k in Arkansas, you will be fine. How well would you be making 40k in NYC or California?

You have to look deeper into these numbers.

[YSL]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Really? If you make 40k in Arkansas, you will be fine. How well would you be making 40k in NYC or California?

You have to look deeper into these numbers.

This is probably the most relevant map in relation to the original post, and it backs up the article.

U.S. map by distressed zip codes



Study

https://eig.org/dci

[JManc]

Originally Posted by bnk

That's a very telling map. I see where the wealth is concentrated.
Poor southerners, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and quit taking so much welfare from the Feds, Blue states subsidize and pay more in tax's than the red southern states.

As is if money flow was unidirectional. I am sure my taxes go towards urban programs inner city Chicago and your taxes go to pay for someone on SSD in rural East Texas. And many of those poor folks in the south are marginalized voters without a voice and are predominately minority and/or disenfranchised. MS, for example, is 40% black yet a staunch republican state. You figure that one out. The poverty map reflects demographics in states like AL and MS too. The RGV region in Texas is overwhelmingly Hispanic and that is one of the most "blue" areas in the country but very poor.