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  #81  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2016, 6:13 AM
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Canada is more conservative or more liberal in different parts of the country depending on what metrics you use.
During Federal election last year the Block Quebeqois & Niqab debate that was front & centre in Quebec but doesn't register as an issue in all other more accepting parts of the country is an example of this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/10...n_8277626.html

The Liberal Party of Canada with Trudeau has gained some traction in The Prairies with Conservatives losing more, but Conservatives gaining some in Ontario. NDP with even more of a left platform was voted the provincial party for leading Alberta.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gren...2016-1.3741159
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  #82  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2016, 1:44 PM
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Let's all make fun of them because of their wholesome family values and their lack of enthusiasm for owning a condo downtown
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It's SSP Canada 101. No one wants to be labelled as conservative and no one wants to be similar to the Americans.
True that.

"Hey, I heard they don't like people who are not like themselves! Let's make fun of them and look down on them!"

Plus ca change...
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  #83  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2016, 4:07 PM
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On SSP Canada no one wants their city labelled "business oriented" either.
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  #84  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2016, 4:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
London is in no way, shape, or form a Bible Belt. In fact the city has consistently had amongst the most liberal policy firsts in the country like the city funded HALO which started in 1972..........years ahead of most cities.
London is conservative in it's lifestyle but not politically or socially. London has always been a bastion of Liberal support both federally and provincially.

London being an old wealth city still has that mentality in the social, political, and economic sphere. Much like Forest Hill, Kerrisdale, or the West Island, or Conneticut in the US, the population is more staid and reserved in lifestyle but socially progressive.

There is a HUGE difference between older conservativism and the nouveau riche form. The older conservative maybe religious but they go to the United Church and the newer "converted" ones go to the Pentacostal.
You've been gone for awhile. It is very churchy for a big city. Much more than every other city that I have lived in. And until recently we had 3 Conservative MPs and one NDP MP. Check your facts, please.
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  #85  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2016, 4:52 PM
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The most conservative place I know from experience is actually the Ottawa valley. It has plenty of the evangelical types, and I know people who went to some pretty intense churches.

That being said I don't think it pervades the local psyche anywhere in Canada. Some of the most left-wing people I know are also from the valley.
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  #86  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2016, 5:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post
Canada is more conservative or more liberal in different parts of the country depending on what metrics you use.
During Federal election last year the Block Quebeqois & Niqab debate that was front & centre in Quebec but doesn't register as an issue in all other more accepting parts of the country is an example of this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/10...n_8277626.html
Well, I think most people in the Arab world would point out you've got this reversed:

niqab = conservative
unveiled women = liberal
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  #87  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2016, 8:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post
Canada is more conservative or more liberal in different parts of the country depending on what metrics you use.
During Federal election last year the Block Quebeqois & Niqab debate that was front & centre in Quebec but doesn't register as an issue in all other more accepting parts of the country is an example of this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/10...n_8277626.html

The Liberal Party of Canada with Trudeau has gained some traction in The Prairies with Conservatives losing more, but Conservatives gaining some in Ontario. NDP with even more of a left platform was voted the provincial party for leading Alberta.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gren...2016-1.3741159
The niqab was only a real issue in Quebec among select types of people who are very much in the minority. The media there made a big deal about it more than anything. The mega Liberal gains in Quebec are evidence that trying to make a big deal about the niqab backfired.
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  #88  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2016, 12:35 AM
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Well, I think most people in the Arab world would point out you've got this reversed:

niqab = conservative
unveiled women = liberal
most people in the Arab world would not want women to have the choice either, doesn't make it right.

Bloc Quebeqois & Arab World = wants to control women's choice
women choosing to wear or not wear niqab = liberal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco101

The niqab was only a real issue in Quebec among select types of people who are very much in the minority. The media there made a big deal about it more than anything. The mega Liberal gains in Quebec are evidence that trying to make a big deal about the niqab backfired.
The niqab debate during election campaign took Tom Mulcair & NDP from first place to third place in his home province of Quebec within days of his voicing his support of women's choice. There is more than just a minority group in Quebec that are not liberal enough to believe women should not have the right to choose.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2251072/ni...observers-say/
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  #89  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2016, 2:04 AM
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The niqab was only a real issue in Quebec among select types of people who are very much in the minority. The media there made a big deal about it more than anything. The mega Liberal gains in Quebec are evidence that trying to make a big deal about the niqab backfired.
The Liberal gains were primarily concentrated in and around Greater Montreal, where the niqab issue was never an asset anyway. But in the rest of Quebec, it killed Mulcair and drove the ABC voters to Trudeau in a heartbeat. All it confirmed was that Quebec was not a distinct society politically (it wasn't too distinct from other regions).
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  #90  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2016, 2:41 AM
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Misreading the niqab debate in Quebec for the 38654236th time.
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  #91  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2016, 5:20 AM
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You've been gone for awhile. It is very churchy for a big city. Much more than every other city that I have lived in. And until recently we had 3 Conservative MPs and one NDP MP. Check your facts, please.
The Harper got the London seats for the same reason he got many in Toronto...........the centre-left had their votes split. London was always a Liberal bastion. It was London's Liberal Peterson who put an end to Tory rule in the 80s. I have never in my life seen any billboards or had anyone confront me about religious issues which I certainly have in the Fraser Valley, Okanagan, Alberta, and even the Ottawa Valley.
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  #92  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2016, 5:54 AM
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The Harper got the London seats for the same reason he got many in Toronto...........the centre-left had their votes split. London was always a Liberal bastion. It was London's Liberal Peterson who put an end to Tory rule in the 80s. I have never in my life seen any billboards or had anyone confront me about religious issues which I certainly have in the Fraser Valley, Okanagan, Alberta, and even the Ottawa Valley.
I lived in London for a couple of years and found it to be quite conservative. But I do have to mention that being from left-wing Timmins makes much of Southern Ontario seem that way.

I also attended an evangelical church in London for a short time. I was invited by some friends. It was the first time in my life that I met socially far-right types of people. It really turned me off from going to that church. It was 1995 and I remember having conversations with people I met there about the PC Premier at the time, Mike Harris, the Quebec referendum and various social issues. I don't think anyone had ever challenged the views of some of the people who attended that church.
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  #93  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2016, 6:14 AM
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Let's all make fun of them because of their wholesome family values and their lack of enthusiasm for owning a condo downtown
I don't consider forcing women to make choices about their bodies based on the writings scribbled thousands of years ago by semi-nomadic middle eastern tribes as "wholesome".

All religion is really just superstition. Humankind would be better of without it's corrosive and divisive influence.
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  #94  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2016, 2:39 PM
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I disagree with rural Ontario.

Having been raised in SWO {admittedly in much more liberal London for much of it} I have been to all areas of SWO. I can say that I never say any place that I would say is Bible Belt. Socially Conservative definitely but not Bible Belt.
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Originally Posted by niwell View Post
The most conservative place I know from experience is actually the Ottawa valley. It has plenty of the evangelical types, and I know people who went to some pretty intense churches.

That being said I don't think it pervades the local psyche anywhere in Canada. Some of the most left-wing people I know are also from the valley.
I grew up as a Catholic in Southwestern Ontario, and while I didn't really notice it until I moved, Catholics are far more conservative in Eastern Ontario than in the Southwest. The reality hit me less than three months after I moved to Kingston: there were actually discussions about how modestly Catholic women should dress, something you'd never hear about in a church in London, or Toronto. The format of the services was also much different; whereas in London the priest might tell a joke or two in the sermon or mention the previous night's hockey game, the priests in Kingston droned on and on about theoretical philosophical stuff that the average Christian (or anyone for that matter) wouldn't even understand. Not surprisingly, the two churches I used to go to in Kingston were routinely at least half empty. (One of them, I would not be surprised to see close in the next 10 years; the local archdiocese already closed another church a couple years ago.)

The attitude towards alcohol among Catholics was also vastly different between the two regions. Church social events in London normally included wine or beer in some capacity, while in Kingston that never happened except at the Portuguese church. Abstaining from meat on Fridays - a tradition that was common prior to the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s - is still a big thing for Catholics in Kingston, something that had long ago disappeared in SW Ontario.

In some ways I found Catholicism in Ottawa even more conservative than in Kingston, though I only visited it a few times and didn't actually live there. That was where I came across a guy who believed he needed to help end Ottawa's gay pride parade. And Ottawa's archbishop doesn't allow eulogies at funerals, which is a pretty standard part of funerals everywhere. I also met someone there openly talked on Facebook about how the Catholic church needs to become more exclusive and not welcome people with differing viewpoints, and how the lives of the unborn were more important than any other lives in the world.

Also telling is that Pope Francis - known for being more liberal than his two immediate predecessors - is a lot more controversial among Catholics I've met in Eastern Ontario than in other areas. One has even openly talked about him being an antipope on Facebook, though he did not directly use the term 'antipope'. I haven't heard any opposition to Francis among the Catholics I know in Toronto or London.

As for my own beliefs - there was a time I was heavily committed to going to church, and went every Sunday. I began scaling back as I approached age 30 as I found the church doesn't respond very well to the needs of unmarried young people who aren't university students, and some of the conservative stuff I came across in Kingston and Ottawa was a real turnoff.
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Last edited by manny_santos; Nov 7, 2016 at 3:23 AM.
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  #95  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2016, 3:58 PM
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Misreading the niqab debate in Quebec for the 38654236th time.
Letting TWU discriminate against gays = liberal.
"Forcing" the Charter on TWU = conservative.
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  #96  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2016, 6:05 PM
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I grew up as a Catholic in Southwestern Ontario, and while I didn't really notice it until I moved, Catholics are far more conservative in Eastern Ontario than in the Southwest. The reality hit me less than three months after I moved to Kingston: there were actually discussions about how modestly Catholic women should dress, something you'd never hear about in a church in London, or Toronto. The format of the services was also much different; whereas in London the priest might tell a joke or two in the sermon or mention the previous night's hockey game, the priests in Kingston droned on and on about theoretical philosophical stuff that the average Christian (or anyone for that matter) wouldn't even understand. Not surprisingly, the two churches I used to go to in Kingston were routinely at least half empty. (One of them, I would not be surprised to see close in the next 10 years; the local archdiocese already closed another church a couple years ago.)

The attitude towards alcohol among Catholics was also vastly different between the two regions. Church social events in London normally included wine or beer in some capacity, while in Kingston that never happened except at the Portuguese church. Abstaining from meat on Fridays - a tradition that was common prior to the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s - is still a big thing for Catholics in Kingston, something that had long ago disappeared in SW Ontario.

In some ways I found Catholicism in Ottawa even more conservative than in Kingston, though I only visited it a few times and didn't actually live there. That was where I came across a guy who believed he needed to help end Ottawa's gay pride parade. And Ottawa's archbishop doesn't allow eulogies at funerals, which is a pretty standard part of funerals everywhere. I also met someone there openly talked on Facebook about the Catholic church needs to become more exclusive and not welcome people with differing viewpoints, and how the lives of the unborn were more important than any other lives in the world.

Also telling is that Pope Francis - known for being more liberal than his two immediate predecessors - is a lot more controversial among Catholics I've met in Eastern Ontario than in other areas. One has even openly talked about him being an antipope on Facebook, though he did not directly use the term 'antipope'. I haven't heard any opposition to Francis among the Catholics I know in Toronto or London.

As for my own beliefs - there was a time I was heavily committed to going to church, and went every Sunday. I began scaling back as I approached age 30 as I found the church doesn't respond very well to the needs of unmarried young people who aren't university students, and some of the conservative stuff I came across in Kingston and Ottawa was a real turnoff.
Interesting. Perhaps Eastern Ontario is the "Opus Dei" capital of Canada?
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  #97  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2016, 6:09 PM
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According to VoteCompass, SW Ontario is more conservative than Eastern Ontario on such issues as gay marriage and abortion. On the other hand, Eastern Ontario takes the more "conservative" position on the military and the war in Afghanistan.

SW Ontario has more of a history of ambivalence or even negative views toward the military and monarchy.
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  #98  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2016, 11:03 PM
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Here's Nova Scotia and New Brunswick (I prefer census divisions with names over numbered ones!):

Census divisions:

Shelburne NS 45.6%
Carleton NB 45%
Charlotte NB 39.6%
Annapolis NS 38.5%
Queens NB 36.4%
Kings NS 32.2%
Albert NB 30.4%
Digby NS 28.7%
Yarmouth NS 28.5%
Queens NS 27.3%
York NB 25.6%
Kings NB 23.4%
Cumberland NS 22.7%
Colchester NS 20.1%

Federal ridings:

New Brunswick Southwest NB 31%
West Nova NS 31%
Fundy Royal NB 30.1%
Kings-Hants NS 24.7%
Fredericton NB 22.7%
Cumberland-Colchester NS 21.1%
South Shore-St. Margaret's NS 20.9%
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  #99  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2016, 1:07 AM
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Here's Nova Scotia and New Brunswick (I prefer census divisions with names over numbered ones!):

Census divisions:

Shelburne NS 45.6%
Carleton NB 45%
Charlotte NB 39.6%
Annapolis NS 38.5%
Queens NB 36.4%
Kings NS 32.2%
Albert NB 30.4%
Digby NS 28.7%
Yarmouth NS 28.5%
Queens NS 27.3%
York NB 25.6%
Kings NB 23.4%
Cumberland NS 22.7%
Colchester NS 20.1%

Federal ridings:

New Brunswick Southwest NB 31%
West Nova NS 31%
Fundy Royal NB 30.1%
Kings-Hants NS 24.7%
Fredericton NB 22.7%
Cumberland-Colchester NS 21.1%
South Shore-St. Margaret's NS 20.9%
What are these percentages?
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  #100  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2016, 1:26 AM
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The Harper got the London seats for the same reason he got many in Toronto...........the centre-left had their votes split. London was always a Liberal bastion. It was London's Liberal Peterson who put an end to Tory rule in the 80s. I have never in my life seen any billboards or had anyone confront me about religious issues which I certainly have in the Fraser Valley, Okanagan, Alberta, and even the Ottawa Valley.
In London, only one of the seats is still Conservative, and that seat - Elgin-Middlesex-London - is safe for them. But that one is mostly rural and only includes a small part of the city (the rural areas surrounding London are very conservative).

I believe, if the Conservatives took an overall Donald Trump position including on trade, they would be very dominant in the southwest. On trade and some economic policies, that region takes the NDP position but they are right of Harper on social and cultural policies. But protectionist policies would not be popular among their Alberta base (or in Quebec, for that matter).
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