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  #81  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 1:33 AM
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
This might be showing my own geographic misconceptions, but the differences of weather in Canada outside the Lower Mainland always seemed (seem?) so exaggerated to me. People from the Prairies, Ontario and the Atlantic all comparing where it's colder or where it snows more, when from a Vancouver perspective, it seems like these differences can't possibly be that great.

Like I said, this could be another misconception, but my perspective is that the average coastal BCer doesn't distinguish between the rest of the country; it's all just "cold."
Seems legit. Lots of Ontarians think the prairies, including Calgary is super cold all winter long and gets tonnes of snow. And lots think the entirety of BC has strictly coastal weather. And that includes me from not that long ago.
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  #82  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 1:48 AM
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This isn't about knowing population stats, though. If the woman being interviewed would have said that Canada's population was 20 million or even 10 million, then I think the interviewers (I wasn't involved) would have probably let it go. But when she said "50,000" it just revealed that she lacked even the most basic critical thinking skills.

If you're like me, you probably don't know anything about the fashion industry or textiles, but if you asked me to estimate the total length of all the tiny threads that are woven together to make my shirt and I said "three feet", I wouldn't blame you if you didn't hire me.
I agree. It is one thing to not be able to pinpoint Somalia exactly on a map.

It is another to think that Somalia is a European Slavic country that used to be lumped in with the Czechs.
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  #83  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 2:15 AM
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I agree. It is one thing to not be able to pinpoint Somalia exactly on a map.

It is another to think that Somalia is a European Slavic country that used to be lumped in with the Czechs.
I don't understand how people end up this way. I really don't. I never consciously studied or paid attention in geography. I would probably barely pass assigning the names of American states to their shapes. But I can put in a pin in a globe for any country or any significant city you want and be within a reasonable distance. I know Beijing is inland from Shanghai. I know Vienna is a few millimeters from the "east". I know where Papua New Guinea is. How do people not pick these sorts of things up over the course of their lives? Even just through osmosis? How do you avoid it? I couldn't if I tried. And with Trump these days, I'd like to know how to be warm and shallow like yesterday's beer. lol Seems happier.
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  #84  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 2:33 AM
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I don't understand how people end up this way. I really don't. I never consciously studied or paid attention in geography. I would probably barely pass assigning the names of American states to their shapes. But I can put in a pin in a globe for any country or any significant city you want and be within a reasonable distance. I know Beijing is inland from Shanghai. I know Vienna is a few millimeters from the "east". I know where Papua New Guinea is. How do people not pick these sorts of things up over the course of their lives? Even just through osmosis? How do you avoid it? I couldn't if I tried. And with Trump these days, I'd like to know how to be warm and shallow like yesterday's beer. lol Seems happier.
It's called not giving a shit. And quite contemptible TBQH.
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  #85  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 2:51 AM
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
This might be showing my own geographic misconceptions, but the differences of weather in Canada outside the Lower Mainland always seemed (seem?) so exaggerated to me. People from the Prairies, Ontario and the Atlantic all comparing where it's colder or where it snows more, when from a Vancouver perspective, it seems like these differences can't possibly be that great.
A lot of people in BC think this but it doesn't really make sense.

The mildest parts of mainland NS (Pubnico/Barrington/Charlesville area) have winters milder than Kelowna (with more sunshine and longer days), while northern NB is comparable to the area around Dawson Creek.

Snowfall varies by more than 4x around Atlantic Canada. Some places get less than 100 cm a year (again in the Kelowna range) and others get more than 400 cm a year. It is odd to think that going from 40 cm a year in Vancouver to 90 cm a year in Kelowna is beyond the pale but 90 cm to 450 cm doesn't matter.

Are there people who live in Vancouver and think that Kelowna is so bad in the winter they could never handle living there? Or that the difference between Kelowna and Vancouver is so extreme that Kelowna might as well be Edmonton? This doesn't seem like a common view to me.
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  #86  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 4:14 AM
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These misconceptions can be said for people from anywhere in the country.

How many people know that the driest town in Canada south of 60 is in BC? (Ashcroft)

How many people know that Victoria is actually drier than many cities in Ontario and Quebec and has the sunniest summer in Canada despite being the “wet coast?”

Heck, Signalhillhiker years ago though that St. John’s and Vancouver had the same climate (Old call back, but I do remember this conversation) and he still seems to forget about BC, especially the hot interior, and even southern Ontario, when generalizing about Canadian weather.

Also for the record, there are people in Vancouver (and more so in Victoria) who would not like winter in Kelowna, and also would not like summer their either. I know some people who hate Osoyoos because of the heat (I personally think they are nuts).

If I was to classify Canada climatically it would have 4 general zones.

First would be the south cost of BC, championed by Victoria. This is the least “Canadian” zone climatically.

Second Zone would be the hot interior valleys of BC and extreme Southern Ontario. I call this the “Canadian Special” in that summer is reliably hot and decently long. For the BC valleys spring is nice and early and for extreme Southern Ontario fall is nice and long. Overall with all weather factors considered throughout the year these two zones I would personally consider to be decent climates. Osoyoos being my personal choice.

The third is most broad, “Classic Canadian” For me, with all weather factors considered, this is the majority of Canada that is not listed in the two zones above. Obviously there are differences throughout this region, but overal to me it kind of feels the same with different trade offs that even out in the end.

Fourth is the tundra / far north / mountain tops.

Two spots that don’t fall into these categories are extreme Southern Coastal Nova Scotia and the North Coast of BC. I seriously don’t know where to place them, they are not zone one but can’t put them in zone two, three, or four either.

Now of course these are very rough categories and there will always be grey zones near their boundaries (and between seasons), but this is just my very broad general view of Canada.
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  #87  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 4:28 AM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
A lot of people in BC think this but it doesn't really make sense.

The mildest parts of mainland NS (Pubnico/Barrington/Charlesville area) have winters milder than Kelowna (with more sunshine and longer days), while northern NB is comparable to the area around Dawson Creek.

Snowfall varies by more than 4x around Atlantic Canada. Some places get less than 100 cm a year (again in the Kelowna range) and others get more than 400 cm a year. It is odd to think that going from 40 cm a year in Vancouver to 90 cm a year in Kelowna is beyond the pale but 90 cm to 450 cm doesn't matter.

Are there people who live in Vancouver and think that Kelowna is so bad in the winter they could never handle living there? Or that the difference between Kelowna and Vancouver is so extreme that Kelowna might as well be Edmonton? This doesn't seem like a common view to me.
I agree with everything you're saying, but perceptions are hard to shake sometimes. Not an excuse for sure, but at least an explanation.

As far as Kelowna's winters, I actually do know plenty of people that say they couldn't live there. Kelowna's winters are lumped into the "rest of Canada" category in my experience. But I take your point. A "not south coast" climate isn't a very useful category for a climate zone, even if I'll admit I'm guilty of it being a gut response for myself as well.
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  #88  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 4:30 AM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
This isn't about knowing population stats, though. If the woman being interviewed would have said that Canada's population was 20 million or even 10 million, then I think the interviewers (I wasn't involved) would have probably let it go. But when she said "50,000" it just revealed that she lacked even the most basic critical thinking skills.

If you're like me, you probably don't know anything about the fashion industry or textiles, but if you asked me to estimate the total length of all the tiny threads that are woven together to make my shirt and I said "three feet", I wouldn't blame you if you didn't hire me.
Yeah fair enough, that's a good point. I'm not saying the 50,000 thing is excusable, it's not, just that sometimes people on here can be a little unfair with people's more modest mistaken population estimates, or not recognizing skylines or other things like that. I can't place more than a handful of US skylines, or name more than a few Mexican states and I'm into this stuff. I don't think that's a big deal.
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  #89  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 5:01 AM
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
As far as Kelowna's winters, I actually do know plenty of people that say they couldn't live there. Kelowna's winters are lumped into the "rest of Canada" category in my experience. But I take your point. A "not south coast" climate isn't a very useful category for a climate zone, even if I'll admit I'm guilty of it being a gut response for myself as well.
Well, what can you say about personal preferences?

But one observation I can make is that Portland and Seattle these days are flooded with transplants from California. I notice the "wilting flower" phenomenon much more in BC than I do in the United States, including transplants or would-be transplants from areas that make Vancouver's weather look really crappy in comparison. Outside of maybe the far north there is nothing in Canada equivalent to a move from LA to Minneapolis.

Americans will talk about up and coming cities. It's not unusual for San Franciscans or Seattleites to muse about moving to Boise or Austin (admittedly because they are being pushed out by a broken housing market, but Vancouver is similar). In Vancouver it's more common to hear people talk about how the rest of Canada offers nothing of value (or nothing that could possibly make up for the huge drawbacks) and how leaving the basement apartment to move to Toronto or Montreal would result in death.

I think this is a not-so-great aspect of Canadian and BC/Vancouver culture.
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  #90  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 5:50 AM
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Well, what can you say about personal preferences?

But one observation I can make is that Portland and Seattle these days are flooded with transplants from California. I notice the "wilting flower" phenomenon much more in BC than I do in the United States, including transplants or would-be transplants from areas that make Vancouver's weather look really crappy in comparison. Outside of maybe the far north there is nothing in Canada equivalent to a move from LA to Minneapolis.

Americans will talk about up and coming cities. It's not unusual for San Franciscans or Seattleites to muse about moving to Boise or Austin (admittedly because they are being pushed out by a broken housing market, but Vancouver is similar). In Vancouver it's more common to hear people talk about how the rest of Canada offers nothing of value (or nothing that could possibly make up for the huge drawbacks) and how leaving the basement apartment to move to Toronto or Montreal would result in death.

I think this is a not-so-great aspect of Canadian and BC/Vancouver culture.
You like to compare the American experience with the Canadian one, but it's not a fair comparison. Of course, we could move to California, etc. for better weather, but it's only if we are willing to move outside our own country. Americans have much more choice than we do for comparable livable climates and large population centres, and that's a big difference. In the US, the climates of Seattle and Portland are nothing special, just a novelty for those who like rain and cooler summers, but in Canada we don't have a Florida or a Southern California to move to, so maybe BC (or according to many, possibly S. Ont.) is the best we have to offer in that regard.
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  #91  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 11:50 AM
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but in Canada we don't have a Florida or a Southern California to move to.
I'm still rooting for Canada to annex the Turks & Caicos.
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  #92  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 12:41 PM
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I'm surprised Atlantic Canada being perceived as north seems to be so common.
There's a bit of confusion about this within the Atlantic provinces too.

When I lived in Charlottetown, PEI for a year I had a few people say "wow, it must get pretty darn cold all the way up there during the winter". All the way up there? I could never tell if they were shocked or thought I was lying when I broke it to them that winter in St. John's was warmer than winter in Charlottetown.
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  #93  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 1:06 PM
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Not just farther north but also remote and cold/rugged, which is true compared to say the Mid-Atlantic US but not so much compared to where most Canadians live.

As others have mentioned it gets funny when you do a one day drive (8-12 hours) and on arrival people talk to you as if you came from the North Pole. It used to be pretty common in Montreal or Quebec City for people upon hearing I was from Halifax to say something like "I hear it's nice but you must get tired of shovelling all that snow!". It's possible they think of the Maritimes as being like a more extreme version of Gaspé, or they think of places like Edmundston as being representative of the region. That would be kinda like travelling to the Peace Country in BC from Alberta and thinking you visited a typical part of BC.
.
It's probably because TV weather networks seem to always have footage of Nor'Easters dumping 75-100 cm of snow on Halifax in a single storm. (You never see snowfalls of that magnitude in southern Quebec, or even southern Ontario.)

Of course what people don't realize is that there is often rain on the back end of the storm, which washes a lot of it away - sometimes all of it.
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  #94  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 1:09 PM
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Any time you live near water, the weather is a bit more... unpredictable and variable. And the Atlantic provinces have a lot of coastline. People familiar with lake effect storms in ON might understand. Geographically, Moncton and Halifax are not far apart (2.5hrs) but driving between them in the winter you often get wildly differing weather patterns (sunny and cold in Moncton, a raging blizzard on the Cobequid pass, rain and fog in Halifax).
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  #95  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 1:14 PM
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Moncton and Halifax are not far apart (2.5hrs) but driving between them in the winter you often get wildly differing weather patterns (sunny and cold in Moncton, a raging blizzard on the Cobequid pass, rain and fog in Halifax).
Maritime winter weather in a nutshell.
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  #96  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 2:09 PM
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50 kms east of London, you are in the worst of the snowbelt (snow squalls). 50 kms west of London, the ground is usually bare. Different climate for adjacent areas is not at all uncommon.
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  #97  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 3:25 PM
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It's probably because TV weather networks seem to always have footage of Nor'Easters dumping 75-100 cm of snow on Halifax in a single storm. (You never see snowfalls of that magnitude in southern Quebec, or even southern Ontario.)
This is another "misconception".

You can see snowfall records here.

The extreme all-time daily snowfall was 66 cm of snow in February 2004 (White Juan). January is 43 cm and December 47. These are all-time records.

Victoria's all-time record is 64.5 cm.

Halifax on average gets 0.79 days a year with 25 cm of snowfall or more and 6.2 days of 10 cm or more.

Believing 75-100 cm snowfalls are typical in Halifax is like believing -40 is the typical winter temperature in Montreal.
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  #98  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 3:34 PM
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You like to compare the American experience with the Canadian one, but it's not a fair comparison. Of course, we could move to California, etc. for better weather, but it's only if we are willing to move outside our own country. Americans have much more choice than we do for comparable livable climates and large population centres, and that's a big difference. In the US, the climates of Seattle and Portland are nothing special, just a novelty for those who like rain and cooler summers, but in Canada we don't have a Florida or a Southern California to move to, so maybe BC (or according to many, possibly S. Ont.) is the best we have to offer in that regard.
Sure, there are differences, but this doesn't relate very clearly to what I've observed. Or maybe you'd think it would make Americans worse since they are so spoiled. Why is anyone living in Minneapolis when they could be in Florida, Arizona, or California?

I am talking about how surprised I was that people from Hawaii and California make less of a big deal about weather in places like Seattle or New York than Vancouverites tend to make about weather in other provinces or maybe even Kelowna. Before talking to Californians much I expected them to be much more like British Columbians in outlook than they ended up seeming to me.

I suspect this has more to do with a difference in attitude than it does with any objective climatological characteristic that kicks in somewhere along the 300 km of highway between Kelowna and the Lower Mainland.
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  #99  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 3:48 PM
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I don't understand how people end up this way. I really don't. I never consciously studied or paid attention in geography. I would probably barely pass assigning the names of American states to their shapes. But I can put in a pin in a globe for any country or any significant city you want and be within a reasonable distance. I know Beijing is inland from Shanghai. I know Vienna is a few millimeters from the "east". I know where Papua New Guinea is. How do people not pick these sorts of things up over the course of their lives? Even just through osmosis? How do you avoid it? I couldn't if I tried. And with Trump these days, I'd like to know how to be warm and shallow like yesterday's beer. lol Seems happier.
I don't really sweat that that much. If people don't exactly know if Lithuania is above Estonia or Belarus that is not too much to sweat or if they mix up Benin and Burundi. Or can't locate Benin at all. Seriously. There's some tiny countries that are almosst never in the news here. Guyana versus Guinea?

I know most of this now, but I've made it one of my hobbies to read books from as many different countries as possible. Going to pick up a Burundi book at lunch maybe. Or maybe that will be Serbia instead or Croatia.

Ignorance like that is more a function of how good your news sources are. In this Internet age, ignorance is only going to get worse, not better. We have so much at our fingertips, but we are very much at risk of being isolationist in our sources.
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  #100  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 4:23 PM
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50 kms east of London, you are in the worst of the snowbelt (snow squalls). 50 kms west of London, the ground is usually bare. Different climate for adjacent areas is not at all uncommon.
Yup, that's what I'm talking about. Sarnia weather reminded me of the maritimes. LOL.
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