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  #81  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2012, 2:46 PM
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One of my favourite things about this forum is coming on to read delung complain about every single project. It's always something. I don't think I've ever seen him say a single positive thing.

His perpetually negative outlook makes me feel so happy about my life.

Schadenfreude!
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  #82  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2012, 3:07 PM
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Dleung, I sincerely appreciate your consistency and your willingness to call them as you see 'em. I rarely agree with your assessments but the contrarian opinions make me further analyze and reflect upon why I think something you despise is okay. More often than not I come down on the side of 'good enough', bearing in mind the multitude of constraints under which developers and architects labour, and I've seen just how bad buildings can be when developers and their architects just don't care (or are not compelled to care by the municipality). I think our average is pretty good and I'm comfortable with most buildings being 'good enough'. I really would love every building to be a masterpiece, or something that we will come to view as timeless, like buildings from the Bueax Arts or Edwardian eras, but that's just not realistic.

We don't have cheap old world-trained stone masons lying around or immigrant labourers and iron workers who will work without safety equipment for little more than what a general labourer on a job site would make these days. Nor can we just cut down an old growth forest to harvest immense timber beams, nor put in plumbing and electricity and call it a day. Buildings are more complicated these days. Approvals do take longer. Integrated design teams are required for even simple C2 arterial mid-rise projects, let alone beasts like 1400 Howe Street.

I do wish that better quality materials would be the norm (stucco and painted concrete should be verboten) and I have a persistent sinking feeling when I see so much wood frame stuff go up. But those choices aren't surprising with land costing what it does, labour costing what it does, materials costing what they do, and the prevailing building forms and height being what they are, etc. It's not an excuse, it's an explanation.

What I care more about than each building's appearance is how they work together with the public realm and complete streets to create blocks, neighbourhoods, and a city of which I am proud, engaged, and comfortable. I think that the whole is far greater than the sum of the parts. A building on an arterial street is a candidate for success if it has; mixed uses, active building program at grade, visual interest for pedestrians, is built of resilient long-lasting materials, and has a massing and building expression that is simultaneously an honest representation of contemporary design, which changes over time, and is reflective of the values of our society, while still striving to be complementary to its surroundings.
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Last edited by SFUVancouver; Jun 12, 2012 at 11:17 PM. Reason: Some small additions and tweaking. Thanks rbostyle!
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  #83  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2012, 4:56 PM
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Most of the commentary I hear from laymen regarding the banality of our local architecture stems from a disregard or lack of understanding (or both) of the context in which these projects are being designed.

I'm not sure if everyone is aware that architecture is a business...
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  #84  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2012, 8:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFUVancouver View Post
Dleung, I sincerely appreciate your consistency and your willingness to call them as you see 'em. I rarely agree with your assessments but the contrarian opinions make me further analyze and reflect upon why I think something you despise is okay. More often than not I come down on the side of 'good enough', bearing in mind the multitude of constraints under which developers and architects labour, and I've seen just how bad buildings can be when developers and their architects just don't care. I think our average is pretty good and I'm comfortable with most buildings being 'good enough'. I really would love every building to be a masterpiece, or something that we now view as timeless, like buildings from the Bueax Arts or Edwardian eras, but that's just not realistic.

We don't have cheap old world-trained stone masons lying around or immigrant labourers and iron workers who will work without safety equipment for little more than what a general labourer on a job site would make these days. Nor can we just cut down an old growth forest to harvest immense timber beams, nor put in plumbing and electricity and call it a day. Buildings are more complicated these days. Approvals do take longer. Integrated design teams are required for even simple C2 arterial mid-rise projects, let alone beasts like 1400 Howe Street.

I do wish that better quality materials would be the norm (stucco and painted concrete should be verboten) and I have a persistent sinking feeling when I see so much wood frame stuff go up. But those choices aren't surprising with land costing what it does, labour costing what it does, materials costing what they do, and the prevailing building forms and height being what they are, etc. It's not an excuse, it's an explanation.

What I care more about than each building's appearance is how they work together with the public realm and complete streets to create blocks, neighbourhoods, and a city of which I am proud, engaged, and comfortable. I think that the whole is far greater than the sum of the parts. A building on an arterial street is a candidate for success if it has; mixed uses, active building program at grade, visual interest for pedestrians, is built of resilient long-lasting materials, and has a massing and building expression that is simultaneously an honest representation of contemporary design, which changes over time, and reflective of the values of our society while striving to be complementary to its surroundings.
This.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2012, 11:54 PM
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SFU, I'm surprised at how off-the-mark your response was, considering the apparent thought put into it, and the assessment that I've been "consistent". I'm not Hed Kandi. My criticisms have always been about the following:

1- low budget buildings should emphasize honesty and economy of form (clean slab is better than needlessly complex point towers with setbacks and pomo-grids to "add interest")
2- NO faux-historicism (makes me wonder why you brought up old-world stone-masons)
3- low-budget buildings should have the same density distributed as midrise and out of sight (unless it adheres to rule 1)

I've posted various examples of mid-market suburban condos in Toronto that are boring glass boxes, but look honest and better than most of the monstrosities in coquitlam/burnaby/surrey/etc. The issue isn't money or quality of materials; it's pretentiousness. I've dealt with an architect who insisted on adding an architectural prow on the corner of his mid-market box design (like typical skewed-perspective condo renders or a la hotel Georgia), and couldn't be convinced that it looks like shit. I like economical designs... not the same as "cheap".
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  #86  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2012, 2:32 AM
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I agree with most of your perspectives on fusing economy and architecture into a cohesive and sustainable design. You shouldn't have to sanitize yourself on this forum when you speak about the architectural ridiculousness of some Lower Mainland proposals.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 2:09 AM
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The area between TD bank and Thai House at the corner of Kingsway/McKay Avenue has been fenced off. Workers are digging holes in the ground as foundation for some wooden poles. My guess is a big sign will be erected to market the redevelopment project. I will try to take a picture when the work is done.
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  #88  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 6:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dleung View Post
SFU, I'm surprised at how off-the-mark your response was, considering the apparent thought put into it, and the assessment that I've been "consistent". I'm not Hed Kandi. My criticisms have always been about the following:

1- low budget buildings should emphasize honesty and economy of form (clean slab is better than needlessly complex point towers with setbacks and pomo-grids to "add interest")
2- NO faux-historicism (makes me wonder why you brought up old-world stone-masons)
3- low-budget buildings should have the same density distributed as midrise and out of sight (unless it adheres to rule 1)

I've posted various examples of mid-market suburban condos in Toronto that are boring glass boxes, but look honest and better than most of the monstrosities in coquitlam/burnaby/surrey/etc. The issue isn't money or quality of materials; it's pretentiousness. I've dealt with an architect who insisted on adding an architectural prow on the corner of his mid-market box design (like typical skewed-perspective condo renders or a la hotel Georgia), and couldn't be convinced that it looks like shit. I like economical designs... not the same as "cheap".
probably a misdiagnosis of a misdiagnosis. imo, the problem with vancouver is path-dependency, where there's a pretty clearly-defined route for developers to take, leading to an end result basically consistent with and reduplicative of pre-existing development. inflexible policy and unsophisticated market = incremental progress.
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  #89  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2012, 6:53 AM
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
See report starting at page 80 here.
There's supposed to be commercial space in the podiums.

https://burnaby.civicweb.net/Documen....aspx?ID=11836
According to this news article, the first phase will include retail at ground level, offices on the next two storeys.

The project approval is still pending, but workers are busy building a big sign at the corner of Kingsway/McKay Avenue.
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  #90  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2012, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waders View Post
The area between TD bank and Thai House at the corner of Kingsway/McKay Avenue has been fenced off. Workers are digging holes in the ground as foundation for some wooden poles. My guess is a big sign will be erected to market the redevelopment project. I will try to take a picture when the work is done.
Yes, it's partially up now, and it's the rendering from: http://www.stationsquare.ca/
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  #91  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2012, 6:39 PM
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Will the 57 storey be part of phase one?
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  #92  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2012, 12:58 AM
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The developers and the City should also focus on bridging the physical gap between the north and south sides of Kingsway. It is still a pain in the ass to walk across the 7-8 lane major thoroughfare whenever I want to have some value sushi at Sushi Garden. Having wider crosswalks is a good start, but more needs to be done to make it a great experience for visitors and residents alike.

But that is another story.
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  #93  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2012, 4:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Kwik-E-Mart View Post
The developers and the City should also focus on bridging the physical gap between the north and south sides of Kingsway. It is still a pain in the ass to walk across the 7-8 lane major thoroughfare whenever I want to have some value sushi at Sushi Garden. Having wider crosswalks is a good start, but more needs to be done to make it a great experience for visitors and residents alike.

But that is another story.
Well there is one elevated crosswalk and plans for a second. The first one still doesn't connect to Sears though, and that really irritates me.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2012, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by red-paladin View Post
Well there is one elevated crosswalk and plans for a second. The first one still doesn't connect to Sears though, and that really irritates me.
Well, when Sears eventually collapses and someone else moves into that space, I imagine they will open it up.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2012, 1:45 AM
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Boston Pizza will be closed permanently after June 31.
Notice has been posted at the location about the closure after 18 years in business due to redevelopment.
The only business left in that area would be Red Robin and TD Bank. I am not sure how they can remain when the demolition and construction starts.

Follows is a picture I took today. The big sign is getting a lot of attention. Quite a few people stopped and looked at it.

Last edited by Waders; Jun 19, 2012 at 2:38 AM.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2012, 2:28 AM
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Red Robin is apparently staying open until at least 2014 IIRC. The Save On Foods is staying open as well. Not sure where people are gonna park..
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  #97  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2012, 4:05 AM
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Originally Posted by GeeCee View Post
Red Robin is apparently staying open until at least 2014 IIRC. The Save On Foods is staying open as well. Not sure where people are gonna park..
According to the Burnaby council meeting minutes there, the first phase is to replace the Red Robin, Boston Pizza, and everything between kingsway and Save On, and build the new Save On and tower above it. Then Save On can move in there, and they'll demolish the old one. Meanwhile, the building at the south end is getting renovated.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2012, 4:46 AM
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Originally Posted by peterprinciple View Post


Looking at the renderings of both Station Square and Lough & Willindon is impressive, and the projects will make an impressive "paradigm shift" in the way that the metro skyline is perceived.

However, I really hope that, esp' in the case of Station Square, that the main fronting streets are made more "elegant and urbane" looking, to give a sleeker, more "metropolitan" feeling the area.

I'd love to imagine it one day culminating in something like Westwood Blvd in LA, although that'll never happen.
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  #99  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2012, 4:57 AM
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The surface parking for metropolis fronting kingsway should get filled in and be mire interactive with kingsway the amount of patking lost isn't too bad, they could retain some spots make it like park royal's village
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  #100  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2012, 5:26 AM
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The surface parking for metropolis fronting kingsway should get filled in and be mire interactive with kingsway the amount of patking lost isn't too bad, they could retain some spots make it like park royal's village
yeah! Something like that would do well there.
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