Roads/Bridges projects/issues

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The biggest fear is that long-term delays in building LRT into Riverside South may turn the right of way into the next Byron Avenue linear park. If this happens, it will no longer be possible to run rail into Riverside South, which will mean our transit investment has been totally lost. One also has to fear about the Barrhaven portion of this transit corridor where housing development is further advanced.

For starters, these corridors should never be allowed to turn into bloody stupid linear parks. Their status as transit corridors should be well-advertised with signage (kept up to date as the decades of thumb-twiddling and inertia drag on), and by mandatory notices, which should be required by provincial law, at ever land transaction involving properties adjoining, and within X distance, of the transit corridor.

[lrt's friend]

I think I just explained why the train 'should' turn. It is called maximizing your effectiveness, which means maximizing your ridership, which means maximizing your revenue. I also pointed out in a previous post that this also allows us to minimize other costs by minimizing the number of passengers that need to access the train in other ways. We also have to remember than we are working around airport and Greenbelt land and we are not doing anybody a favour by building more of the line through that land where nobody lives or works or shops. Get to where development is going to be built on the most direct route possible. This is exactly what was planned, plus putting a maintenance yard away from complaining residents, unlike the often advocated Walkley Yards which now is right in the midst of residential development thanks to stupid decisions made by council and our planners some years ago.

As far as curvy-wurvy in general, this is a big problem when you are trying to wedge rapid transit into already built up areas. Also because of the general geography of Ottawa with all the waterways and because most of the usuable rail corridors are no longer available for this purpose. If you look at other cities, the only way to follow straight lines is to follow rail corridors or build subways under straight streets, or build streetcars along those straight streets. The rail corridors are mostly gone and built over. Subways are far too expensive for a city this size and streetcars would be too slow to get the job done. Also, many of our major streets are too narrow to accomodate both streetcars and regular traffic without sharing the right of way, which is 19th century thinking.

The comment about Hurdman to St. Laurent is understandable but what is the solution? You want a straight route. How would that have ever been possible? How much expropriation and demolision were we going to need to build a straight route?

Another factor affecting Ottawa's ability to build straight lines is density. It may not be dense compared to Toronto or Montreal or New York but if you look at Dallas or Salt Lake City which are both building a lot of LRT lines, you will notice the striking lack of density. This makes it difficult to provide effective transit but when building LRT, there is lots of room along rail lines, expressways and very wide boulevards to lay track.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This is exactly what was planned, plus putting a maintenance yard away from complaining residents, unlike the often advocated Walkley Yards which now is right in the midst of residential development thanks to stupid decisions made by council and our planners some years ago.

Fuggem. Yards was there first.

As far as curvy-wurvy in general, this is a big problem when you are trying to wedge rapid transit into already built up areas.

That's the thing: I'm not thinking about the already built-up areas. I'm looking at the map of the paper "community" that has yet to be built. Curvy-wurvy all.

Subways are far too expensive for a city this size

I am unconvinced of that, not in the places where they might be required, and really, that's a limited part of an unnecessarily sprawling city.

and streetcars would be too slow to get the job done. Also, many of our major streets are too narrow to accomodate both streetcars and regular traffic without sharing the right of way, which is 19th century thinking.

19th-century thinking is better than 20th-century thinking. What's inherently bad about street rail transit, sharing the ROW with mixed traffic? I fail to see any problem with this whatsoever, at least not for the purposes and in the corridors where it makes sense.

But, hey, having ruled out subways and street-running, care to share what's left? Magic Flying Airbuses?

The comment about Hurdman to St. Laurent is understandable but what is the solution? You want a straight route. How would that have ever been possible? How much expropriation and demolision were we going to need to build a straight route?

No more than is going to be required to do the re-alignement proposed by the LRT. If the Hurdman Station had been placed slightly further north than it was, and the Train problem had been avoided from the start by running the alignment then that is proposed for LRT now, the entire Hurdman-Train meander could have been relegated to a gentle dog-leg of just a few degrees. Whose property would had to have been expropriated?

This makes it difficult to provide effective transit but when building LRT, there is lots of room along rail lines, expressways and very wide boulevards to lay track.

Expressway ROWs are terrible choices for transit lines, if you want your transit investment to pay off in TOD.

Not that Ottawa planners would know TOD from their left hemorrhoids, of course, but at least some portions of the Transitway that don't closely follow the Queensway could theoretically lead to more TOD even if the experience to date has been pathetic.

[Dado]

I've posted my replies in the Future of Transit thread where this discussion more properly belongs:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...40075&page=235

[Dado]

Oh yes, in actual roads news, has anyone else been along the new Terry Fox extension/link up in Kanata? It's been open for awhile now.

It's just a two-lane single carriageway road right now but they've cleared and blasted out enough forest to make it a six-lane dual carriageway with wide boulevards, sidewalks and bike paths on both sides.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Dado

Oh yes, in actual roads news, has anyone else been along the new Terry Fox extension/link up in Kanata? It's been open for awhile now.

It's just a two-lane single carriageway road right now but they've cleared and blasted out enough forest to make it a six-lane dual carriageway with wide boulevards, sidewalks and bike paths on both sides.

Yes, I drove along it one evening this week. It certainly is an efficient way to get across Kanata North now. However, I didn't see any turtles crossing, as I expect they all would be doing right at the turtle crossing sign ;-) And yes, I also noticed just how wide the corridor actually is, and was wondering how long it will be before they twin the road.

[Acajack]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=121216&page=5

[Cre47]

There are already thinking on twinning the Lachute-Mirabel section (or at least doing studies).

[Cre47]

Bank Street Widening EA

http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa...20Widening.htm

[DarkArconio]

Driving through Arnprior on the 417/17 this weekend, noticed the set of lights have been removed. There are now two single through lanes, no passing lanes. Final parts to finish appear to be the on and off ramps on the south of the new interchange, rehab of the old madawaska river bridge (including approaches), and the division street overpass.

[waterloowarrior]

trim road widening/realignment drawings and ppt
http://ottawa.ca/residents/construct...fo_doc_en.html

Project Overview
The City of Ottawa is undertaking the preliminary and detailed design for the widening and realignment of Trim Road. The limits of this project are:

Trim Road - OR 174 to Innes Road
Frank Kenny Road - Trim Road to 1.4km south of Innes Road
St. Joseph Boulevard – OR 174 off ramp to Trim Road
Old Montreal Road – Trim Road to Dairy Drive.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

trim road widening/realignment drawings and ppt
http://ottawa.ca/residents/construct...fo_doc_en.html

Project Overview
The City of Ottawa is undertaking the preliminary and detailed design for the widening and realignment of Trim Road. The limits of this project are:

Trim Road - OR 174 to Innes Road
Frank Kenny Road - Trim Road to 1.4km south of Innes Road
St. Joseph Boulevard – OR 174 off ramp to Trim Road
Old Montreal Road – Trim Road to Dairy Drive.

They should add a 174/Trim interchange to the project, and a direct ramp to the Trim Park and Ride for buses would be nice as well.

[Lakche]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

They should add a 174/Trim interchange to the project, and a direct ramp to the Trim Park and Ride for buses would be nice as well.

There's no way the city could come up with the budget for that... It would be awesome if they did, but I doubt it... :<

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Lakche

There's no way the city could come up with the budget for that... It would be awesome if they did, but I doubt it... :<

Here is my idea for that interchange:



The interchange is a Parclo-AB2, basically the only design possible due to land use constraints in the NE and SE quads (a directional ramp might be possible in the SE quad for S->E movements). I lined up the ramps to have 4-legged intersections. To fit the Transitway (ultimately LRT, but a long time away, they would most likely extend to Place d'Orleans first) without impacting that flood retention pond, the SW quad ramp is oversized.

The bus ramp is initially eastbound only. If a full Transitway is constructed in the area, then the ramp becomes part of the Transitway.

I have no idea where they would place a Transitway though around Place d'Orleans where the ROW narrows, they would likely have to have an underground section there or redesign the street network and use what is now Place d'Orleans Drive.

[MaxHeadroom]

I've seen a possible plan of that interchange and the entire Frank Kenny realignment on some obscure Ottawa base-map somewhere in past years, and it didn't look like that. The transitway was shown extending east underneath Trim and running along the north side of the park and ride.

An interchange could be placed there, even a proper A4 since the maintenance yard in the northwest and the park-and-ride is city-owned, but with doubts as to the ability to extend the freeway anywhere past that point, why bother?

[waterloowarrior]

HWY. 417 Highway 417 Expansion from the Junction at Highway 7 Easterly to Eagleson Road, Including Advanced Traffic Management System for Highway 417 from Highway 7 Junction to Highway 416 Junction - 15.8 km

Awarded to Thomas Cavanagh Construction - $77.7 million

project website
http://www.highway417expansion.com/h...n/eng/home.asp


Description of the Undertaking
This Detail Design project involves the expansion of Highway 417 from Eagleson Road westerly to Highway 7, including the rehabilitation and widening of existing structures.

The main components of the project include:

• Widening of Highway 417 from Eagleson Road to Palladium Drive into the median to provide 2 additional lanes in each direction (1 lane in each direction will be a High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lane);
• Widening of Highway 417 from Palladium Drive to Highway 7 into the median to provide 1 additional lane in each direction;
• Widening and rehabilitation of the existing Carp River bridges (eastbound and westbound) to provide 2 additional lanes per direction;
• Rehabilitation of the Eagleson Road Bridge and the Huntmar Road Bridge;
• Rehabilitation and minor widening of the Carp Road Bridge at the north abutment to create three full lanes on the bridge;
• Construction of related drainage works (culvert replacement, lining and extensions, storm water management facilities etc.);
• Temporary closures of ramps at the Eagleson Road and Castlefrank Road interchanges to allow for required rehabilitation and repair works.
• Highmast illumination and signage improvements;
• Installation of an Advanced Traffic Management System from Highway 7 to Highway 416; and
• Resurfacing/rehabilitation of existing lanes from Eagleson Road to Highway 7 and existing ramps at Terry Fox Drive, Palladium Drive and Carp Road.

[waterloowarrior]

website for 417 east widening

http://queenswayexpansioneast.com/home/




The Ministry of Transportation (MTO) has retained McCormick Rankin Corporation (MRC) to complete the detail design for the expansion of Highway 417 from Nicholas Street to Ottawa Road 174 (GWP 4091-07-00 & GWP 4320-06-00). The project involves the following components:

• Widening Highway 417 by 1 lane in each direction, including utility relocation, construction of related drainage works, roadside protection and retaining walls;
• Widening and rehabilitation of the Southeast Transitway, Rideau River (Hurdman) and St. Laurent Boulevard Bridges;
• Removal and replacement of the Lees Avenue, Vanier Parkway and Belfast Road bridges using rapid replacement construction techniques, including preparation and reinstatement of construction staging areas;
• Realignment of Ottawa Road 174 to St. Laurent Boulevard Ramp, including a new concrete barrier to preclude the movement from Highway 417 westbound to St. Laurent Boulevard northbound;
• Conversion of the St. Laurent Boulevard northbound to Highway 417 eastbound on-ramp to ‘Transit use only’;
• Improvements to illumination and signage;
• Replacement of noise barriers and relocation of utilities impacted by widening;
• Advanced Traffic Management System (ATMS);
• Temporary ramp and road closures; and
• Transit Priority Measures between Nicholas Street and Blair Road.

[Lakche]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

HWY. 417 Highway 417 Expansion from the Junction at Highway 7 Easterly to Eagleson Road, Including Advanced Traffic Management System for Highway 417 from Highway 7 Junction to Highway 416 Junction - 15.8 km

What exactly is an "Advanced Traffic Management System"?

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by Lakche

What exactly is an "Advanced Traffic Management System"?

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/tra.../compass.shtml

[DarkArconio]

In other words, cameras are installed that allow faster emergency service response and electronic sign boards are placed over the highway. Doesn't seem that advanced...