Winnipeg Jets

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by harls

I think it has less to do with 'largest' corporations and more to do with 'corporations that like to shell out cash for hockey games'.

Exactly, some of my young delusional Winnipeg forum comrades feel that Winnipeg based corporations will be jumping over each other to buy a box if and when the NHL returns. They also fail to realize that of those said 32 + 3=35, The Canadian Wheat Board, MB Hydro, MLCC, MPIC, Manitoba Lotteries, Manitoba Pork Marketing and the majority of the others won't be buying any type of box unless it's made of cardboard.

[Pegger5]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Exactly, some of my young delusional Winnipeg forum comrades feel that Winnipeg based corporations will be jumping over each other to buy a box if and when the NHL returns. They also fail to realize that of those said 32 + 3=35, The Canadian Wheat Board, MB Hydro, MLCC, MPIC, Manitoba Lotteries, Manitoba Pork Marketing and the majority of the others won't be buying any type of box unless it's made of cardboard.

I am most likely older and more experienced than you but I wont go there.

Do you not have a comment of why there is a waiting list for boxes today at MTS Centre and also how do you explain Ottawa selling out boxes??

Saying that, you would be surprised at what money they will spend on marketing for their companies and yes that may include rink board signage or yes, even boxes... Besides, you only named 6 companies of which have many high paid employees. If you use the same rules for Edmonton then you can eliminate EPCOR (owned by City of Edmonton) , ATB, Alberta Lotteries, WCB, National Energy Board etc.etc
http://www.financialpost.com/magazin...porations.html

It has become obvious to many on here that you think you are a realist but the fact is you may still be living or thinking about the Winnipeg economy in the early 90's..

Don't you think Chipman and Thomson would know the answer of corporate support before they buy a team? Can you answer that? or do you think they are dumb business men?

Maybe this will help in your research.
http://www.manitobabusinessmagazine.com/

[P&M40BELOW]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Exactly, some of my young delusional Winnipeg forum comrades feel that Winnipeg based corporations will be jumping over each other to buy a box if and when the NHL returns. They also fail to realize that of those said 32 + 3=35, The Canadian Wheat Board, MB Hydro, MLCC, MPIC, Manitoba Lotteries, Manitoba Pork Marketing and the majority of the others won't be buying any type of box unless it's made of cardboard.

The point is the people that would be acquiring a team have already decided that the support is there; and are moving forward. Maybe some people don't remember but at the time that the Jets left, most opinions were that Calgary and Edmonton wouldn't be far behind; In fact initially both held on by the skin of their teeth. If teams had actually left Calgary and Edmonton then I am sure those same cities would be having the same discussion today; wondering if they could once again support an NHL team. Edmonton is not so different from Winnipeg; in fact Winnipeg does have more head offices to support the boxes. Yes it's true that there is a substantial waiting list for boxes at the MTS Centre.

By the way I don't believe that ownership wants the "Jets" back. I believe that they will get an NHL team by way of expansion or relocation; but that team will be called the "Moose".

Go Moose!!

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by P&M40BELOW

The point is the people that would be acquiring a team have already decided that the support is there; and are moving forward. Maybe some people don't remember but at the time that the Jets left, most opinions were that Calgary and Edmonton wouldn't be far behind; In fact initially both held on by the skin of their teeth. If teams had actually left Calgary and Edmonton then I am sure those same cities would be having the same discussion today; wondering if they could once again support an NHL team. Edmonton is not so different from Winnipeg; in fact Winnipeg does have more head offices to support the boxes. Yes it's true that there is a substantial waiting list for boxes at the MTS Centre.

By the way I don't believe that ownership wants the "Jets" back. I believe that they will get an NHL team by way of expansion or relocation; but that team will be called the "Moose".

Go Moose!!

Do I have to tell you what one of the MAJOR reasons is that Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa still have hockey teams, it's because of the increase in value of the Canadian dollar. It was pretty tough to pay a US based salary on a $.62 Canadian dollar.

And do you think Winnipeg can sustain enough fan support with a city of only 750K and relatively low average salaries, that the cities of Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa all with over a million people and a lot higher average salaries get?

Saying that there is a waiting list for bargain basement priced boxes at the MTS Centre and the reality of selling those same boxes at the same price or higher (higher because of the small seating capacity of the MTS Centre) than what they go for in Calgary is questionable.

[jmt18325]

Winnipeg has household incomes slightly above average for Canada I think it was viking that posted that stats in the past...but don't let that stop your parade of doom.

[DowntownWpg]

Just a general comment... don't get your hopes up as long as Bettman is still around, you'll just set yourself up for heartbreak. Throughout his time as NHL commissioner, both during and post-Jets, Bettman has consistently played politics with or outright screwed Winnipeg. IMO, believing that Bettman has changed is merely wishful thinking.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

Winnipeg has household incomes slightly above average for Canada I think it was viking that posted that stats in the past...but don't let that stop your parade of doom.

Average household income of 154 Canadian cities ranked Winnipeg 74th in 2009. That same ranking had Calgary at 7th place, Edmonton at 21st and Ottawa at 22nd. Incidentally Hamilton was ranked 43rd.

[jmt18325]

Right...and we were still above average. The statistic also showed that we were below average in the past.

[ILYR]

There are now 10 teams with attendance (not necessarily paid) less than the MTS centre. They are:

(Taken from http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance)
Columbus 15004
Anaheim 14835
Florida 14489
Tampa Bay 14470
Carolina 14410
Colorado 14390
Atlanta 13511
Nashville 13409
NY Islanders 12485
Phoenix 9774

8 of them are the new southern expansion teams and are sitting at around 70-80% capacity (Phoenix 55% capacity).

The 6 Canadian teams:
Montreal 21273
Calgary 19289
Toronto 19240
Vancouver 18810
Ottawa 18023
Edmonton 16839

With the exception of Ottawa (97.6% capacity) all Canadian teams are at 100+% capacity.

[Keng]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Average household income of 154 Canadian cities ranked Winnipeg 74th in 2009. That same ranking had Calgary at 7th place, Edmonton at 21st and Ottawa at 22nd. Incidentally Hamilton was ranked 43rd.

Disposable income would be a much more useful figure, would it not?

[chrisallard5454]

here are some figures on Winnipeg's income compared to disposable income over the last 10 years. There is also a comparison to Manitoba and the rest of Canada.
Though I would not hold this info. to close to heart as it was produced by DestinationWinnipeg.

[chrisallard5454]

http://www.destinationwinnipeg.ca/up...canada_309.pdf

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Keng

Disposable income would be a much more useful figure, would it not?

Well since you put it out there here are the rankings for household discretionary income: Calgary 1st, Edmonton 7th, Ottawa 24th and Winnipeg 79th. Hamilton ranks 51st. Winnipeg actually ranks worse in this category than household income, nice try!

Don't think I'm down on the NHL returning because I'm not, it's just that the reality of Winnipeg's demographics economically would make it difficult.

[Keng]

I'm not trying anything, just voicing an opinion that cost of living is a factor. You're far to paranoid.

I would never try to convince someone with such a pessimistic and negative view on practically everything in this city. Call me a comrade, I guess.

[rrskylar]

Wo, wo, wo! Because I think the level of public funding ( my tax dollars) is far too great for the CMHR and what it's return will be and that I question whether the NHL can work in Winnipeg, I'm some sort of grim reaper, give me a frickin break. Keep drinking the pink Kool-aid Ken! I guess when confronted with facts some people turn to name calling and stereotyping!

[Keng]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Exactly, some of my young delusional Winnipeg forum comrades feel that Winnipeg based corporations will be jumping over each other to buy a box if and when the NHL returns. They also fail to realize that of those said 32 + 3=35, The Canadian Wheat Board, MB Hydro, MLCC, MPIC, Manitoba Lotteries, Manitoba Pork Marketing and the majority of the others won't be buying any type of box unless it's made of cardboard.

I don't even know what you are talking about! You seem to think I was trying to prove something to you.

My little post only stipulated, I believed disposable income was a more accurate assessment of the average Winnipeg families ability to afford the NHL; for all posters, I wasn't singling anybody out. For some reason you think I was targeting you. Not the case, in fact I think you're point is valid and concerns me as well as to whether the NHL can work in Winnipeg. You're views on the CMHR are irrelevant.

I only drink Guinness.

[feepa]

Originally Posted by ILYR

There are now 10 teams with attendance (not necessarily paid) less than the MTS centre. They are:

(Taken from http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance)
Columbus 15004
Anaheim 14835
Florida 14489
Tampa Bay 14470
Carolina 14410
Colorado 14390
Atlanta 13511
Nashville 13409
NY Islanders 12485
Phoenix 9774

Notice - these teams are all the teams that are... failing. (Save for Colorado who had years and years of sell outs until recently...)
So the failing mark seems to be about 15000 seats. You'd need something bigger than the MTS Center.

Also - there is quite the big price difference between a MB Moose Luxury Box and an NHL Luxury Box... but I'm sure some of you NHL geniuses in here realized that already?!!?

The reason Edmonton has the Oilers is because we have people with big pockets here who were willing together and buy the team. This didn't happen in Winnipeg. Lack of money, or lack of support for the team, or no sound business plans... Nobody was willing to take a risk in piss-poor Winnipeg.

Winnipeg won't be getting an NHL team any time soon. Put down the crack pipes

[Pegger5]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Well since you put it out there here are the rankings for household discretionary income: Calgary 1st, Edmonton 7th, Ottawa 24th and Winnipeg 79th. Hamilton ranks 51st. Winnipeg actually ranks worse in this category than household income, nice try!

Don't think I'm down on the NHL returning because I'm not, it's just that the reality of Winnipeg's demographics economically would make it difficult.

How about the highest debt ratio per capita. ALBERTA # 1 !!!

[Pegger5]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Well since you put it out there here are the rankings for household discretionary income: Calgary 1st, Edmonton 7th, Ottawa 24th and Winnipeg 79th. Hamilton ranks 51st. Winnipeg actually ranks worse in this category than household income, nice try!

Don't think I'm down on the NHL returning because I'm not, it's just that the reality of Winnipeg's demographics economically would make it difficult.

2009 source to that information you posted ??

For the last time people, it will be actual companies buying the tickets, not individuals (not alone anyway) Soo, the point of disposible income is irrelevent for being able to afford season tickets..

rrskylar---I am starting to think you don't pay taxes... not that much anyway... People that support a good thing will look for ways to make it happen not ways to make it NOT happen like yourself.. So of course you must believe Chipman is a dumbass business person

I was looking and can not seem to find a positve post from you... You just seem happy adding to your post count...

[Pegger5]

Originally Posted by feepa

Notice - these teams are all the teams that are... failing. (Save for Colorado who had years and years of sell outs until recently...)
So the failing mark seems to be about 15000 seats. You'd need something bigger than the MTS Center.

Also - there is quite the big price difference between a MB Moose Luxury Box and an NHL Luxury Box... but I'm sure some of you NHL geniuses in here realized that already?!!?

The reason Edmonton has the Oilers is because we have people with big pockets here who were willing together and buy the team. This didn't happen in Winnipeg. Lack of money, or lack of support for the team, or no sound business plans... Nobody was willing to take a risk in piss-poor Winnipeg.

Winnipeg won't be getting an NHL team any time soon. Put down the crack pipes

You must forget what really happened or you are that young.
The NHL would not allow multiple (more than 1) Owners when a local Wpg group tried to buy the team. (not without a 100 million endowment fund).
Bettman finally changed his mind on that rule when Calgary and Edmonton were about to leave thus you are lucky to still have your team.. Edmonton had to have over 30 owners to survive. If Winnipeg had that chance they would still have a team. Also, read this link about arena size:
http://blogs.reuters.com/summits/200...always-better/
Research my friend, Research ! Oh and get out of this thread unless you have some real facts.