CHICAGO | General Developments

[aic4ever]

I would note, as well, that there are a good portion of the more well-to-do black people in the community, and I speak of Bronzeville now in particular, that want to see the community grow back into what it once was, but don't want white people moving in. That's not hearsay or speculation, that's personal experience talking. There are some folks that are more adamant about that than others, but it does seem to be something of a general sentiment, particularly in the GAP.

As much as nobody wants that to be the case, it is, and it's another impediment to further development. It's not one that I think will stop Bronzeville from developing, as there's getting to be WAY too much residential around and nowhere near enough food or retail to support it for that stuff to NOT be built by somebody, but it is a sentiment that's going to make for a tougher growth of the community than it ought to be.

[aic4ever]

Progress with storm water detention at Parkway Gardens.

• Video Link

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by aic4ever

I would note, as well, that there are a good portion of the more well-to-do black people in the community, and I speak of Bronzeville now in particular, that want to see the community grow back into what it once was, but don't want white people moving in..

^ What a bunch of crap.

Bronzeville will never return to 'what it was' because nowadays black people with the means will move to wherever they want to live. This is in stark contrast to 40 or 50 years ago when they didn't have those options.

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ Yeah, believe it or not society is actually gradually becoming more integrated and more blacks flee to the suburbs and more whites move back into the city. Sure there will always be some form of segregation, but gradually people are mixing.

[aic4ever]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ What a bunch of crap.

Bronzeville will never return to 'what it was' because nowadays black people with the means will move to wherever they want to live. This is in stark contrast to 40 or 50 years ago when they didn't have those options.

I'm just telling you what the sentiment is from some people. I'm not claiming it's reasonable.

There is a group of people that wants it to be the Black Metropolis again, and that don't look kindly on non-blacks moving into the neighborhood.

[Steely Dan]

*many off-topic posts deleted*

any other post that mentions the words "global warming", even in a passing reference, will be summarily deleted. this is not the thread for that "debate".

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ I'm wracking my brain for a good joke to make that references global warming, but I'm failing...



In regards to Bronzeville, people just need to get over it. By that I mean both races need to stop obsessing over whose "territory" is whose. It's fucking primitive behavior and completely contrary to the notion of Chicago becoming a truly strong and healthy community. The worst part is that the younger generation is mortified and embarrassed by the mistakes of generations passed, but it seems that certain areas (destitute black areas in the city and destitute white areas in the country) just can't resist continuing to play up such bullshit.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by aic4ever

Progress with storm water detention at Parkway Gardens.

• Video Link

Same folks that built the storm traps at UNO School i think.

[siunate2324]

surprised nobody put a link to curbed, but they have a cool article on a retail project adjacent to the UC. seems like finally there maybe some momentum to making that place a dynamic area.

[aic4ever]

Originally Posted by siunate2324

surprised nobody put a link to curbed, but they have a cool article on a retail project adjacent to the UC. seems like finally there maybe some momentum to making that place a dynamic area.

United Center Owners Pitch Retail Complex at Madison & Wood

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by siunate2324

surprised nobody put a link to curbed, but they have a cool article on a retail project adjacent to the UC. seems like finally there maybe some momentum to making that place a dynamic area.

Someone did. Several days ago.

Originally Posted by spyguy

Even though the Bulls might be done for the playoffs (let's hope not), at least Reinsdorf is finally set to take advantage of the excitement surrounding the Hawks/Bulls. LA Live Lite.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...s-retail-space

United Center plans retail space
By Ryan Ori and Micah Maidenberg

Not far from the Michael Jordan statue, the United Center's owners hope a $75 million to $85 million retail development soon will take flight.
Chicago Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf is leading a venture that plans to build 260,000 square feet of restaurants, bars, a team store and event space in the sprawling parking lot east of the arena, according to documents obtained by Crain's. Chicago Blackhawks owner Rocky Wirtz would be part of the venture, which could include team offices, parking, a terrace and a green roof.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by aic4ever

I would note, as well, that there are a good portion of the more well-to-do black people in the community, and I speak of Bronzeville now in particular, that want to see the community grow back into what it once was, but don't want white people moving in. That's not hearsay or speculation, that's personal experience talking. There are some folks that are more adamant about that than others, but it does seem to be something of a general sentiment, particularly in the GAP.

As much as nobody wants that to be the case, it is, and it's another impediment to further development. It's not one that I think will stop Bronzeville from developing, as there's getting to be WAY too much residential around and nowhere near enough food or retail to support it for that stuff to NOT be built by somebody, but it is a sentiment that's going to make for a tougher growth of the community than it ought to be.

Originally Posted by aic4ever

I'm just telling you what the sentiment is from some people. I'm not claiming it's reasonable.

There is a group of people that wants it to be the Black Metropolis again, and that don't look kindly on non-blacks moving into the neighborhood.

Yes, because, as we all know, one of the biggest obstacles to redevelopment of impoverished black neighborhoods is "reverse racism." And, in the absence of any credible studies or articles, we should take your word for it.

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

Yes, because, as we all know, one of the biggest obstacles to redevelopment of impoverished black neighborhoods is "reverse racism." And, in the absence of any credible studies or articles, we should take your word for it.

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

Settle down, it is definitely part of the problem and if you think it is not you have a very limited understanding of racial dynamics in America. A huge part of the problem with race is that white Americans so ostracized their African American neighbors that they began to completely isolate themselves physically, culturally, and socially even where/when they were not forced to do so by Whites. This continues to this day and the "race issue" is not just white people being afraid some scary black dude is going to rob them, but also a strong distrust of white people on the behalf of blacks. This carries over from the fact that blacks developed their own society and culture and now identify by it and oppose the destruction/dilution of this culture by whites. Bronzeville was one of THE capitals of this culture and it is only logical that blacks would resist allowing the capital of the heyday of black culture to be taken over by whites.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Settle down, it is definitely part of the problem and if you think it is not you have a very limited understanding of racial dynamics in America. A huge part of the problem with race is that white Americans so ostracized their African American neighbors that they began to completely isolate themselves physically, culturally, and socially even where/when they were not forced to do so by Whites. This continues to this day and the "race issue" is not just white people being afraid some scary black dude is going to rob them, but also a strong distrust of white people on the behalf of blacks. This carries over from the fact that blacks developed their own society and culture and now identify by it and oppose the destruction/dilution of this culture by whites. Bronzeville was one of THE capitals of this culture and it is only logical that blacks would resist allowing the capital of the heyday of black culture to be taken over by whites.

"Settle down" from you of all people? That's rich. If you agree with unsubstantiated claims that appeal to "personal experience" or other "conventional wisdom," then you have a very limited understanding of argument and persuasion.

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

"Settle down" from you of all people? That's rich. If you agree with unsubstantiated claims that appeal to "personal experience" or other "conventional wisdom," then you have a very limited understanding of argument and persuasion.

Well his claim about Bronzeville is true, I know for a fact that there are very vocal elements within the community that are resisting gentrification for exactly the reasons he listed.

What I said wasn't at all based on conventional wisdom, but rather a serious of college courses and books on US race issues and urban sociology. It's widely accepted by sociologists that a major contributing factor to longevity of the social issues around race is that African Americans were so marginalized that eventually they accepted this marginalization and formed their own cultural group in resistance to the marginalization. You can attack me personally all you want, but that doesn't make you any less wrong.

[untitledreality]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

Yes, because, as we all know, one of the biggest obstacles to redevelopment of impoverished black neighborhoods is "reverse racism."

I wasn't aware that racism had a 'reverse' to it. Racism is racism and unfortunately it does work in the way that aic4ever mentions in many urban areas. Im not buying his particular example, but I have seen/experienced it first hand.

[ChiPhi]

Earlier this year I was walking around a gentrifying area of Philly and a black man yelled "I hate white people" out of his car window after a white man stepped in front of his car (the light had turned red as the black man attempted to continue through the intersection instead of waiting for his turn). This sort of racism, I'm quite sure, predominates in Chicago as well (though a single event that happened to me in Philadelphia obviously cannot sum up the race woes of Chicago). Chicago is still one of the most segregated cities, if not the most segregated city in the country. Ironically, many of the most segregated cities nowadays tend to be northern or west.

I think that there are two types of anti-gentrification sentiment. The first has to do with a fear of rising values pushing out homeowners and renters who have lived in these areas for decades if not generations. The second has to do with a fear that a mix of races will dilute the black (or to a lesser extent Asian, Hispanic, Jewish) culture that has been fostered through generations of adversity. I can't say I agree with either of the objections to gentrification, but I think I can understand where people's feelings come from. I feel much worse for those that lose their physical home because of gentrification than I do for those who lose a sense of community. Communities come and go as identities are absorbed into the mainstream of America (Irish, German, and as we speak imo Asian and Jewish). Losing a home can be a lot harder and constitutes a real loss that I wish there were some mechanism to soften.

[aic4ever]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

Yes, because, as we all know, one of the biggest obstacles to redevelopment of impoverished black neighborhoods is "reverse racism." And, in the absence of any credible studies or articles, we should take your word for it.

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

First, Bronzeville is not impoverished. It's underdeveloped, but it's hardly impoverished. Median income is well above the citywide median income. And my observation wasn't about impoverished neighborhoods. It was about Bronzeville.

Second, you don't have to believe me if you don't want to. I live in Bronzeville. I go to the community meetings. I meet with people in the neighborhood for cocktails.

There are a handful of them that don't want white people around. I don't know why that would be hard to believe if you understand the history of this country and this city, but if you don't want to believe me, you don't have to. You also don't live in Bronzeville, and unless and until you do, you probably don't have a much better option than to take my word for it about what I've observed while living here.

It's an impediment to development because they are part of a very vocal minority that almost brings every sign of progress to a halt. The demolition of the Pickford Theater was nearly stopped by one man who complained loudly enough, even though there was nothing left of the building but a rusting shell that DeLasalle would have let fall in on itself before they fixed it up. His arguments that I sat and listened to were based entirely upon reviving the Black Metropolis with federal funds.

I'm not going to claim that some kind of "reverse racism" (whatever that means...racism is racism) is roadblocking growth in Bronzeville. Racial dynamics will be overcome by anyone persistent enough to overcome them by proving to the community that growth is in its best interests. But at the same time, ignoring it, or for some reason insisting it doesn't exist, doesn't help anything either.

[aic4ever]

Originally Posted by ChiPhi

Earlier this year I was walking around a gentrifying area of Philly and a black man yelled "I hate white people" out of his car window after a white man stepped in front of his car (the light had turned red as the black man attempted to continue through the intersection instead of waiting for his turn). This sort of racism, I'm quite sure, predominates in Chicago as well (though a single event that happened to me in Philadelphia obviously cannot sum up the race woes of Chicago). Chicago is still one of the most segregated cities, if not the most segregated city in the country. Ironically, many of the most segregated cities nowadays tend to be northern or west.

I think that there are two types of anti-gentrification sentiment. The first has to do with a fear of rising values pushing out homeowners and renters who have lived in these areas for decades if not generations. The second has to do with a fear that a mix of races will dilute the black (or to a lesser extent Asian, Hispanic, Jewish) culture that has been fostered through generations of adversity. I can't say I agree with either of the objections to gentrification, but I think I can understand where people's feelings come from. I feel much worse for those that lose their physical home because of gentrification than I do for those who lose a sense of community. Communities come and go as identities are absorbed into the mainstream of America (Irish, German, and as we speak imo Asian and Jewish). Losing a home can be a lot harder and constitutes a real loss that I wish there were some mechanism to soften.

This concern is expressed much more than anything else in Bronzeville in particular. There could be a mechanism to deal with this, but I would think it would have to be a very complex property value analysis that gave long term residents a kind of grandfather valuation so they don't get taxed out of their homes.

[denizen467]

Does anyone know just how expansive the bridge reconstruction at the end of Fullerton (across the lagoon, connecting to LSD) is supposed to be? They've chopped down tons of trees, fenced off lots of land, and narrowed down more of the LSD ramps than you'd expect. Are they trying to make this into more of a higher-speed interchange, or a higher-clearance bridge over the lagoon, or something like that?

Also, what about timetable?