New Downtown Calgary Arena

[MichaelS]

I think it will depend where they get the "missing" $100 million from. If the province gives them some money, I would expect to hear pretty loud calls in Calgary asking for the same.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by lubicon

So it appears the City of Edmonton and the Oilers have come to an agreement on building/funding a new arena. Will this help act as a catalyst for a new arena in Calgary?

And the Government of Manitoba is making rumbles about somehow contributing financially to the Winnipeg bid for an NHL team. I think Calgary is sure to see something as a result, at least in terms of building.

As we've discussed ad naseum here, these arenas are used for far more than just NHL hockey. In fact, the NHL is a minor tenant in terms of days used. So the cities/provinces very likely SHOULD step up - to whatever degree we can all agree upon.

[Stang]

I think that the province and city will likely provide something, but they will be very careful with the optics. The perception of subsidizing millionaire players and owners won't fly here, but some funding could potentially be directed to a major sporting and cultural facility. Most people see the Flames as the only tenant, which isn't true, but they certainly are a major stakeholder and the catalyst for the new building.

The feds won't want to go anywhere near this one, I don't think, but the city could certainly see some trickle-down benefits through tourism, high profile concerts and events, etc.

Speaking of which, I wonder if it has been considered to incorporate a hotel or other revenue-generating business into the same project? A nice hotel in Victoria Park attached to a new building would help revitalize the area, be a hit among hockey fans, stampede goers, and even just regular tourists. Plus it could make a little bit of money that could help pay down the building's debt and eventually contribute to the profits.

Finally, do the Flames receive any money from parking at the Stampede grounds? Although I think that the grounds would be an ideal location, the lost revenue in that area alone must be quite substantial. I'd hate to see a new arena anywhere but downtown (or very close to downtown).

[Innersoul1]

Originally Posted by lubicon

So it appears the City of Edmonton and the Oilers have come to an agreement on building/funding a new arena. Will this help act as a catalyst for a new arena in Calgary?

Not likely. The agreement in Edmonton states that the city will provide something like $425 million to the construction of the arena. They will own the rink and associated lands. The Katz group would cover operational costs along with any imporvements that need to take place.

NO CHANCE that our city council would provide this kind of funding to the Flames. My understanding is that the Flames are hoping to privately fund the arena.

According to a TSN article that came out today the Alberta government has not commited to providing funds to Edmonton. I would assume that if Edmonton recieves provincial dollars then Calgary will too!

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Actually I would love to see the new arena and a new football stadium right there. Then we could have an arena district built up around the area.

Whats in an "Arena District?" Homeless people, large parking lots and freeways? No more wasting riverlands on this crap.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by kw5150

Whats in an "Arena District?" Homeless people, large parking lots and freeways? No more wasting riverlands on this crap.

I'd be ok with an 'Arena district', but only if done right, ie all parking in parkades, and either the arenas separated by retail/entertainment commercial, or side by side but with the parkade/arenas themselves having retail all around the at-grade circumference. Think a hockey, football, and maybe some other sort of stadium, each with a 'stampede entertainment district' type retail street between each one, plus hotels, etc.

[Innersoul1]

Originally Posted by Stang

I think that the province and city will likely provide something, but they will be very careful with the optics. The perception of subsidizing millionaire players and owners won't fly here, but some funding could potentially be directed to a major sporting and cultural facility. Most people see the Flames as the only tenant, which isn't true, but they certainly are a major stakeholder and the catalyst for the new building.

The feds won't want to go anywhere near this one, I don't think, but the city could certainly see some trickle-down benefits through tourism, high profile concerts and events, etc.

Speaking of which, I wonder if it has been considered to incorporate a hotel or other revenue-generating business into the same project? A nice hotel in Victoria Park attached to a new building would help revitalize the area, be a hit among hockey fans, stampede goers, and even just regular tourists. Plus it could make a little bit of money that could help pay down the building's debt and eventually contribute to the profits.

Finally, do the Flames receive any money from parking at the Stampede grounds? Although I think that the grounds would be an ideal location, the lost revenue in that area alone must be quite substantial. I'd hate to see a new arena anywhere but downtown (or very close to downtown).

I really like the idea of incorporating a hotel into the facility. Edmonton's proposal includes a hotel and casino. I like the addition of both but it certainly adds to the overall cost of the arena which I don't think the Flames are interested in.

Correct me if I am wrong but the Edmonton proposal is well over 500 million?

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by kw5150

Whats in an "Arena District?" Homeless people, large parking lots and freeways? No more wasting riverlands on this crap.

An arena district in the context I mentioned would have a football stadium and hockey arena side by side with some surface parking (out of site and off the main street) but most parking would be underground. There would be a hotel, possible convention centre and lots of retail and restaurants. This would not just be a game day destination, but a year round destination.

I give it about a 2% chance of ever happening, though it's nice to dream...

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

An arena district in the context I mentioned would have a football stadium and hockey arena side by side with some surface parking (out of site and off the main street) but most parking would be underground. There would be a hotel, possible convention centre and lots of retail and restaurants. This would not just be a game day destination, but a year round destination.

I give it about a 2% chance of ever happening, though it's nice to dream...

That is my main worry that we have all of these great ideas for Development Permit and then it all gets washed out in the end. There should also be no new surface parking being proposed anywhere near the river. Chances are this arena will be built somewhere in the suburbs from the rumors I have heard. No one wants to built and arena district type development in Calgary, just a lazy bunch of parking lots with a good freeway connection

[Stang]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

I really like the idea of incorporating a hotel into the facility. Edmonton's proposal includes a hotel and casino. I like the addition of both but it certainly adds to the overall cost of the arena which I don't think the Flames are interested in.

Although it would increase the initial construction costs, I'd think that in the long run it would turn the corner and start making money for the Flames. A casino would likely be out of the question as the Stampede has their own nearby, as would be convention space. But I'd like to see it loaded up with as many extra things as possible. Hotel, restaurants, bars, maybe a smaller concert/theatre venue for shows that attract the 500-2000 range of people, retail shops, etc. I know that the Flames don't want to get into all of these businesses themselves, but being a landlord would provide some revenue to help pay it down.

Maybe they should build an office and condo building over top of it and sell the residential units and lease the office units. I'm mostly joking, but it would certainly be a creative way to diversify their revenue streams.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by kw5150

Whats in an "Arena District?" Homeless people, large parking lots and freeways? No more wasting riverlands on this crap.

Don't forget the zombies. Anyone able to dig up that pic from the WLRT days?

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by kw5150

Chances are this arena will be built somewhere in the suburbs from the rumors I have heard. No one wants to built and arena district type development in Calgary, just a lazy bunch of parking lots with a good freeway connection

The Flames have always said that they want the new arena close to where they are now. I doubt it'll be in the suburbs.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by kw5150

That is my main worry that we have all of these great ideas for Development Permit and then it all gets washed out in the end. There should also be no new surface parking being proposed anywhere near the river. Chances are this arena will be built somewhere in the suburbs from the rumors I have heard. No one wants to built and arena district type development in Calgary, just a lazy bunch of parking lots with a good freeway connection

The Flames have always stated that they want the arena downtown and close to transit. I really doubt it will move to the 'burbs.

[Calgarian]

Wow, nearly identical posts...

[Innersoul1]

Originally Posted by kw5150

Whats in an "Arena District?" Homeless people, large parking lots and freeways? No more wasting riverlands on this crap.

This is a link to the "Arena District" in Glendale outside of the Jobbing.com Arena. It's one of the most famous arena districts in the NHL. BUT given that there is NOTHING else in Glendale, it also points to some of the reasons why the Coyotes are failing.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?safe=acti...=fr-2384026199

[Calgarian]

That's definitely not the model I'm advocating. a small arena district surrounded by an ocean of parking is just a horrible use of land.

[bigcanuck]

How about the Staples Center and Nokia Theatre area of L.A. (called L.A. Live)? Lots of restaurants, a courtyard, 2 world class hotels and not a whack of parking lots surrounding the area. Not immediately on the subway line though.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

That's definitely not the model I'm advocating. a small arena district surrounded by an ocean of parking is just a horrible use of land.

The parking is definitely because it's in the middle of nowhere, plus American sports facilities just have SOOO much more on average than we do. I've actually been to baseball games where you can park well over half a kilometer away, on contiguous asphalt.

Kansas City's parking lot is ENORMOUS. The Saddledome (or McMahon) has practically no parking by comparison.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by bigcanuck

How about the Staples Center and Nokia Theatre area of L.A. (called L.A. Live)? Lots of restaurants, a courtyard, 2 world class hotels and not a whack of parking lots surrounding the area. Not immediately on the subway line though.

There's plenty of surface parking by the Staples Center, but you're right, it's not the crazy flat blackness of the suburban rinks and stadiums. It helps that it's right next to downtown and surrounded by other buildings. Don't forget there are also 2 convention/conference centers on the property too.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by freeweed

The parking is definitely because it's in the middle of nowhere, plus American sports facilities just have SOOO much more on average than we do. I've actually been to baseball games where you can park well over half a kilometer away, on contiguous asphalt.

Oh absolutely the US facilities have more, the minimum size for an NFL stadium is around 80 000 people! that's McMahon (with extra seats), plus 2 Saddledomes!

The area around Staples Centre is more in line with what I was thinking.