[Bedford] Bedford Waterfront Phase II | Proposed

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by planarchy

Not likely. You are comparing a plan designed by Halifax-based Ekistics who is probably better at designing golf courses than urban waterfronts with an awarding winning design by Rotterdam-based West 8 - easily one of the top landscape architecture and urbanism design and research firms in the world. The two plans are worlds apart. The Bedford waterfront design is overly artificial and seems to be completely disconnected with both the physical territory as well as with any sort of notion of housing demand and economic factors.

The Toronto proposal is going to have an elevated Expressway running through it. I will place my bets on the Ekistics Bedford proposal.

Lets check back in 10 years time when they are both nearing completion.

[planarchy]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

The Toronto proposal is going to have an elevated Expressway running through it. I will place my bets on the Ekistics Bedford proposal.

Lets check back in 10 years time when they are both nearing completion.

I doubt Bedford will look much different in 10 years. Do you really think we will any of this in Bedford anytime soon?

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by planarchy

Not likely. You are comparing a plan designed by Halifax-based Ekistics who is probably better at designing golf courses than urban waterfronts with an awarding winning design by Rotterdam-based West 8 - easily one of the top landscape architecture and urbanism design and research firms in the world. The two plans are worlds apart. The Bedford waterfront design is overly artificial and seems to be completely disconnected with both the physical territory as well as with any sort of notion of housing demand and economic factors.

My difficulty with this plan is the articifialness of it too - there doesn't seem to be a lot of major parks (although I may be misinterpreting the scale from the drawings). It seems to me that this plan brings the waterfront to the condo/land owners and not to the people so much. When I think about the waterfront downtown, the one spot that I think about the most is the one lone green spot on the Halifax side at the waterfront - by the ferry terminal. While I enjoy the boardwalk, there aren't enough parks.

Now, while this plan has an ambious park around the Cove (which I like) the actual portion that is at waters edge doesn't have enough green at all. It seems very artificial for the portion ('the island') against the basin. While there is a nice park near one of the Marinas and the plaza off the middle point of the island is okay - there should be more of a park there. While I'm willing to be flexible with my views; I would still like to see more park space along the waterfront - so you don't just sit on the boardwalk, but you can sit in a nice grassy area and reflect or kids can play or your could picnic and watch the water.

[fenwick16]

This could easily be solved by combining two low rise condos into one midrise condo. Instead of 2 six story condos, have one 12 story condo and then additional green space. The problem is that the Bedford residents will then complain about the buildings being too high.

A big problem is that people state that there should be more density to prevent sprawl, more green space and lower buildings. These can't all be accomplished. I am sure in the Toronto proposal you will see 30 storey condo buildings (or higher). So it is easier to accomplish the goal of more green space in Toronto area proposals since they can build higher. It is the same in Calgary, people accept taller buildings.

Suburbs in the Toronto area regularly have detached homes on 30 - 40 foot wide lots (in the neighbourhood that I live in far outside Toronto, a 40 foot wide lot was sold as a "wide" lot). Typically lots are 100 feet deep. If you look at Toronto area housing developments you will actually see far less green space than you will see in Halifax area suburbs. So in the Toronto areas when developers can't build high, buildings are crammed together even more so than in the Halifax area.

[Jonovision]

I just wanted to clarify a bit. My point in bringing the Toronto proposal to light was the fact that it looks like it will be able to achieve a very nice balance. Good high density developments that are in fitting with Toronto mixed with a wonderful open waterfront and what could become one of the great urban parks of the world. And the large park is not only for the people who live nearby, but it is reconstructing habitat that used to be there before the industrial watefront was built. It's giving a good balance between urban and nature. Something our bedford proposal totally lacks. The small bit of parkland is entirely for the human benefit and not the wildlife of the bedford basin.

[fenwick16]

I wish that I could agree with Jonovision and Planarchy for the sake of diplomacy. However, this looks like a great development with a marina, an island, a pond (which will become home to various wildlife species such as ducks, fish, etc), a ferry terminal and even a train terminal. Regarding the comment that it looks artificial; I think that this development stands out because it is not the typical low rise brick buildings that would blend in with other neighbouring buildings, but can't we have something a bit different?

On top of everything that I mentioned above, it is on the Bedford Basin with its marine wildlife. What more could anyone hope for? (other than the whole thing being parkland, but the HRM already has lots of parkland, it also needs residential land). I am sure that once this development is completed, there will be a lot more wildlife within a 1 mile radius than there will be within a 1 mile radius of the Toronto proposal.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I don't know about the economics of this plan given other planned communities in inland Beford locations. That being said, it is ambitious and would truly give beford a distinct look from its current state.

The nature arguments are a joke... I know the Bedford Basin more intimately than I would like to know it (been a sailor my whole life and know alot about it through scientists).

Trust me, the eco system will be fine... its been through much worse.

[Dmajackson]

Just a photo showing how much rock has been arriving lately.

[fenwick16]

Maybe they should just fill in the entire Bedford Basin (just leave enough for the Container Terminal). It would certainly alleviate some traffic issues in the HRM and maybe eliminate the need for a third Harbour Bridge. Plus it would create a lot of additional real estate. (I wasn't being completely serious - just filling in the shallow portions is a consideration though)

Since Halifax and Dartmouth seem to be so strongly against development, the new centre of growth could be Bedford/Sackville.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Maybe they should just fill in the entire Bedford Basin (just leave enough for the Container Terminal). It would certainly alleviate some traffic issues in the HRM and maybe eliminate the need for a third Harbour Bridge. Plus it would create a lot of additional real estate.

Since Halifax and Dartmouth seem to be so strongly against development, the new centre of growth could be Bedford/Sackville.

The Bedford Basin is massive and slowly becoming cleaner... I think its a beautiful natural setting and that the infilling for this bedford project be pretty much the full extent...

Development of any height is pretty much equally hated everywhere in the HRM where there is alot of family homes.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

The Bedford Basin is massive and slowly becoming cleaner... I think its a beautiful natural setting and that the infilling for this bedford project be pretty much the full extent...

Development of any height is pretty much equally hated everywhere in the HRM where there is alot of family homes.

Yes I agree that the Bedford Basin should not be filled in. I was just reacting to the amount of fill in the image posted.

[Dmajackson]

This picture covers a bigger area than it looks;

[Dmajackson]

The Bedford Waterfront Plan is heading to NWPAC tomorrow night as an added item. The document is an interesting read and the plan does look good (there are some changes that sohuld be included but I'd support this). Of note is HRM is applying to the province to establish another group similar to the Design Review Committee for DT Halifax for the plan area.

Bedford Waterfront Design Study

[Dmajackson]

MCHUGH: Opposition to Bedford waterfront work heats up
September 17, 2012 - 4:01am BY ED MCHUGH BUZZ FROM THE 'BURBS

ONE OF THE subjects I teach is marketing and we explore perception versus reality. I offer the viewpoint that perception is reality.

Once consumers hold opinions about your product or organization, it is very difficult to change. I will add that the most powerful form of marketing is word of mouth, especially in today’s linked world.

There has been a perception held by many Bedford residents that the Waterfront Development Corp. Ltd. is not communicative or responsive to their needs. Accurate or not, I have heard that view expressed by many in recent years but the volume is increasing

...

Read More: Ed McHugh's column (www.thechronicleherald.ca)

Normally I don't post opinion pieces but Ed is right that the movement has been increasing it's efforts. The two extremes seem to be high-density urban style development versus no development with existing fill to become parkland. I seem to sit (as always) in between these extremes. I support protecting the reef but I don't think it should all be parkland. From the existing Waterfront Drive to Crosby "Island" should be developed with high-density uses focusing on public transit. From the high point on Crosby "Island" to the south should be left as is with only infilling where needed for the Bedford Basin Trail. I'd focus the highest density in Mill Cove Plaza provided it has good connections to the waterfront.

[Keith P.]

Part of the problem here is that the NIMBY group protesting the infill leveraged the municipal election campaign to get a lot of attention for their cause and of course both the incumbent and all the candidates pandered to them, since nobody except the developer is in favor of development in these parts. So you have Tim Outhit saying that maybe dumping pyritic slate into salt water isn't all that great a way to get rid of the stuff - even though it has been determined for years that this is the one way to dispose of the stuff - and calling for new studies on the subject. Ridiculous.

[someone123]

I think part of the problem in Bedford is that the waterfront has very few amenities and shows few signs of the kind of progress that matters to people. It's basically some small condos and an enormous pile of construction waste that has been slowly growing for a decade or so. Bedford has grown by leaps and bounds. It's understandable that people look at the waterfront there and wonder what's going on.

If part of the fill had been developed into some nice mixed condos and shops with good public waterfront areas the optics would be a lot better. Looks at the stuff planned for King's Wharf; they're even looking at putting in an artificial beach.

[halifaxboyns]

Looks like this project is officially in an holding pattern.
I'm not surprised about the comments about density though - Bedford isn't well known for it's massive condo buildings. Change like this isn't easy, but everyone is going to need to brace for it.

WDC puts Bedford waterfront project on hold
Chronicle Herald Story

[halifaxboyns]

Speaking of nimby, when I found this I ended up hurting my head banging it on my desk...
Link

[worldlyhaligonian]

What is wrong with these people... this isn't the great barrier reef.

I love the part where it says "is this your vision for the Bedford waterfront"... Yes... In fact I want taller and higher densities.

[Dmajackson]

Future of Mill Cove properties focus of three public sessions
January 25, 2013 - 7:30pm BY BILL POWER BUSINESS REPORTER

More than a quarter-century ago, officials with the former Town of Bedford launched an ambitious landfill project in the Mill Cove area. It was never finished.

Now, everybody in Halifax Regional Municipality is being invited to consider the potential of this prime waterfront location and three other smaller tracts of undeveloped land in the area.

...

Open houses are scheduled to run from 7 to 9 p.m. next Thursday and on Feb. 28 and March 28 at Dockside Condominiums, 210 Waterfront Dr. in Bedford.

...

(bpower@herald.ca)

Read More: thechronicleherald.ca