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  #61  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 4:31 PM
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^ chicago works like that too, with city limits clearly visible from above at night by the sharp decrease in the density of those orange sodium lamps as city changes to burb.


source: https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/04...-up-the-night/
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  #62  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 4:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encolpius View Post
I think LEDs are unspeakably awful.
Aren't they all filled with mercury too? Sometimes 'improvements' aren't an improvement at all.
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  #63  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 5:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Aren't they all filled with mercury too? Sometimes 'improvements' aren't an improvement at all.
You're thinking of CFLs. I absolutely hate those. They make everything look horrible, even food. And they take several minutes to get to full brightness. I have one CFL left in my apartment, and it's in a lamp that I rarely use. I should just get rid of it.

All my other bulbs in my apartment are LEDs. In the last several years, they've actually improved the look of LEDs. The light can totally mimic incandescents, and they can even be dimmed/brightened like incandescents. I actually haven't gotten a new light bulb in several years already because these lights last a long time.
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  #64  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by woodrow View Post
As to the increase in light pollution due to LED's, that is an unintended consequence. They use so much less power and are so replaced so infrequently that people worldwide are using MORE lighting at night.
Yeah, that was my understanding too. More developing nations are using LED street lighting that's powered by solar panels. Just do any youtube search on "driving in xxxx" (I've searched "driving in Liberia" and "driving in Port-au-Prince") and you'll see LED street light fixtures with solar panels on the top. So it's not that the LED street lights are shining more light up into the sky per se (in fact, they're better at aiming the light downward), but more and more areas of the world are using LED street lights.
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  #65  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 7:14 PM
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Everyone understands that it's NOT the LED bulb at issue...it's the color temperature of the LED bulbs that were selected, right? My entire house is fitted with LEDs at a warm white temp of 2700K. The issue is that they chose a super cool 5000K white bulb instead of something warmer and cozier - but that has nothing to do with the actual method of light (LED).
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  #66  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
Everyone understands that it's NOT the LED bulb at issue...it's the color temperature of the LED bulbs that were selected, right? My entire house is fitted with LEDs at a warm white temp of 2700K. The issue is that they chose a super cool 5000K white bulb instead of something warmer and cozier - but that has nothing to do with the actual method of light (LED).
Even a warm LED gives off a different light than an incandescent bulb. This is obvious.
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  #67  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 7:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
here's a side by side shot of the new and old lights at the end of our block where the alley opens to the street.

an old sodium street light is on the left and a new LED light they just put in our alley is on the right.

i will dearly miss the orange.

This photo makes me sad. . .

. . .
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  #68  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 8:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
Everyone understands that it's NOT the LED bulb at issue...it's the color temperature of the LED bulbs that were selected, right? My entire house is fitted with LEDs at a warm white temp of 2700K. The issue is that they chose a super cool 5000K white bulb instead of something warmer and cozier - but that has nothing to do with the actual method of light (LED).
well, in chicago's case, they're lamping the new fixtures with 3000K LED bulbs, so that's pretty warm for LEDs (and not too far off the 2700K you use in your home), but they still look so damn cold next to the old sodium lamps.

those old sodium lamps are just so damn orange that even a relatively warm light still looks really cold next to them.

for reference high pressure sodium is around 2200K and low pressure sodium is around 1700K.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; May 20, 2019 at 8:11 PM.
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  #69  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
well, in chicago's case, they're lamping the new fixtures with 3000K LED bulbs, so that's pretty warm for LEDs (and not too far off the 2700K you use in your home), but they still look so damn cold next to the old sodium lamps.

those old sodium lamps are just so damn orange that even a relatively warm light still looks really cold next to them.
Sure, but as Londonee and myself have pointed out, the "problem" here has nothing to do with the switch to LEDs but rather with the fact that Chicago decisionmakers feel that orange to white is an upgrade.

Here's a pic from my link from the first page of this thread.
That's LED lighting, selected by people with different tastes from current Chicago decisionmakers:


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  #70  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 8:13 PM
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^ i didn't know 2200K LED street lamps were a thing.

i really wish chicago would have gone with those.
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  #71  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Even a warm LED gives off a different light than an incandescent bulb. This is obvious.

true, but they can be basically indistinguishably good nonetheless. https://www.yujiintl.com/high-cri-led-lighting.html
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  #72  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ i didn't know 2200K LED street lamps were a thing.

i really wish chicago would have gone with those.
"BLINDINGLY WHITE = safety" and low bid or cost, probably.

my streetlights are still orange and fairly dim, thankfully. i live in a really dark sort of pocket neighborhood, you can see the light pollution at night billowing up around me over the trees from streets on three sides, it's weird.
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  #73  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 9:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ i didn't know 2200K LED street lamps were a thing.

i really wish chicago would have gone with those.
As I explained earlier, I couldn't help but know that, seeing how my hometown over the past few years has been switching the downtown lighting from the previous white-ish to these new orange LEDs to meet light pollution reduction targets given the presence of a "world-class" astrolab/telescope in our region.

Meanwhile, Chicago's doing the exact opposite - replacing orange by white. Which I guess makes sense, if light pollution isn't critical. Most people probably like it bright. Personally, this new orange glow felt weird at first (I've grown to like it, though).
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  #74  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encolpius View Post
Turning off street lights does not lead to more crime or accidents – study

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ccidents-study
So I was right!
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  #75  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
not sure how i feel about this. i've lived in st. louis city neighborhoods that were lit up very brightly, including alley lights which CAN be super annoying in your bedroom, and i've lived in st. louis county urban neighborhoods (with proper alleys, etc) which have a completely different lighting regime... kind of creepy at night since the streetlight density is about 1/2 of the city. however, there's less problems with light coming into bedrooms. my biggest complaint about less street-lighting is going for a walk at night, walking the dog, walking from the bar, not seeing pedestrians at night...

i think the solve here is to restrict upward light pollution and use LEDs in the proper light spectrum, which isn't happening.
If they did the cutoff time at about 10, that would give most people plenty of time to walk their dogs and stuff.
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  #76  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007 View Post
If they did the cutoff time at about 10, that would give most people plenty of time to walk their dogs and stuff.
It would also severely restrict freedom, essentially establishing a curfew. I sure as hell wouldn't be out with the street lights off, let alone women (who I think would have a lot to say about the topic of light colour overall).
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  #77  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 11:18 PM
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It would also severely restrict freedom, essentially establishing a curfew. I sure as hell wouldn't be out with the street lights off, let alone women (who I think would have a lot to say about the topic of light colour overall).
Were they restricting freedom before street lights were invented? It would just return things to a more natural state of affairs. Night is supposed to be dark.

There are still rural areas that have few, if any, street lights. Are people's freedom being restricted there?
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  #78  
Old Posted May 21, 2019, 12:09 AM
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I use warmer-temp LED lights in my house. I don't see the problem with LED in terms of colour temperature. I used warmer-temperature CFL bulbs years ago too.

I think cooler temperature light is actually preferable for streets. In workplaces, they use cooler temperature light to keep workers awake, alert and busy. Warm temperature light in contrast is sleepier, more comfortable, which is fitting for inside the home, but maybe not as fitting for the street where people drive their cars at night. It's not just an aesthetic issue but also potentially a safety issue.

Light Bulbs That Help You Sleep
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  #79  
Old Posted May 21, 2019, 12:33 AM
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Lack of streetlights at night=higher chance of stepping in puddles or dog shit when walking home. Maybe in places where nobody walks it's reasonable
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  #80  
Old Posted May 21, 2019, 2:03 AM
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Let me tell you, the stretches of streets in Johannesburg when the streetlights are out can get extremely terrifying. If not crime then cars blowing by well over the speed limit. At the best of times the lighting is far more subdued than in North America though.
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