Columbus Is Firing On All Cylinders Demographically, Economically, & Culturally

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

It's too bad they didn't put Missouri's state capitol and state university in the same city. They're close, but not quite close enough for them to gel into the same metropolis.

illinois has a similar arrangement.

champaign (UofI) and springfield are about 75 miles from each other. not remotely close enough to create that special state capital/flagship university synergy.

illinois also has chicago which automatically relegates everything else in illinois to 4th tier at best, so even if illinois had done the capital/university combo, it might not have been as effective as it's proved to be in other midwest states.

[mrnyc]

columbus most certainly did have a rep, at least in ohio, of drawing in ohio residents from the farmlands, small towns and those escaping the industrial legacy holocaust from metro cleveland, youngstown and the like, and it was true, because lets face it the clean suburban newness, that big college spin-off and the government seat related economy was economically bulletproof, but all that is definitely long outdated these days. columbus draws from all over more and more. its its own magnet now.

as far as actually living there, yes it was a sleepy albeit quirkier place not so long ago, much like its southern twin austin was, but that has vastly changed as well. there is plenty to see and do around there nowadays and its not just about high street anymore. and i'm always amazed at all the changes when i come through town occasionally, unlike the rest of ohio, where visual change always looks so much more gradual.

[photoLith]

I was just in Columbus last week after not visiting for almost 6 years. The transformation is incredible. There were so many new mid rises and a few new skyscrapers. Seems to be doing a hell of a lot better than Pittsburgh or Cleveland.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

It's too bad they didn't put Missouri's state capitol and state university in the same city. They're close, but not quite close enough for them to gel into the same metropolis.

At the same time, i'm not sure that i would want a combination like that leaching from KC and St. Louis, as those kinds of cities tend to draw heavily from statewide or semi-regionally. At least St. Louis is (barely) maintaining regional population growth right now..we shed enough people to KC and global Chicago as is.

[photoLith]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Cincy and Cleveland are far more interesting to urban enthusiasts.

Columbus feels like Indianapolis but worse downtown and better/more neighborhood infill.

Downtown Columbus pretty much sucks, downtown Cleveland and Pittsburgh have much nicer downtowns. But, Columbus neighborhoods are incredible, especially German Village and Victorian Village. Perfectly preserved urban neighborhoods.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ agreed on all counts.

if anything in the midwest is a mini-chicago, it's milwaukee, not indy.

but then, because of the great fire, chicago is much brickier than any of the non-river midwest cities (cincy & st. louis). so none of these analogies ever line up super neatly.


and yeah, columbus has some quality urbanism. german village may not quite rise to the level of cincy's OTR or anything, but it's absolutely the type of intact 19th century neighborhood that any urbanist would enjoy a stroll through.

also, at ~3 miles, the high street corridor through short north & OSU has got to be one of the longest, mostly cohesive, continuous urban retail streets in the midwest. i've never found anything in indy's neighborhoods on that level in terms of scale and scope.

Chicago urbanism is just on a different calibre from anything else in the Midwest. I think the difference may even be more pronounced than the great New York City neighbourhoods vs. other great urban neighbourhoods of cities in the Northeast (e.g. comparing the LES vs. the most vibrant parts of South Philly).

The energy and buzz of, say, Wicker Park, with its 3 and 4 storey Victorian commercial blocks packed with shops and apartments, pedestrian traffic and el trains, just doesn't have an equal in the other Midwestern cities.

There's big city urbanism and medium city urbanism. While medium city urbanism is certainly interesting in its own right - and I wouldn't even say it's worse in all respects - it's not a substitute for big city urbanism. The Midwest has a lot of examples of growing medium city urbanism but, unlike the Northeast or California, Chicago is the only city in the Midwest that possesses big city urbanism.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

At the same time, i'm not sure that i would want a combination like that leaching from KC and St. Louis, as those kinds of cities tend to draw heavily from statewide or semi-regionally. At least St. Louis is (barely) maintaining regional population growth right now..we shed enough people to KC and global Chicago as is.

yes unlike states like that ohio is lucky to be a place where urban, suburban and rural are equally matched across the state at all levels. a downside is that's why there is a lot of aggravating stasis sometimes. everything seems to be collapsing toward the center these days though with the ultra magnetic black hole of columbus booming.

[Vlajos]

^ probably true, and why I am still stratching my head with the Indy is a mini Chicago comment. Indy is like a big Rockford or something. It has virtually nothing that is urban at all. It's downtown is tiny and vacant. The vast majority of it housing stock is terribly built frame homes. It feels like a suburb.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by photoLith

Downtown Columbus pretty much sucks, downtown Cleveland and Pittsburgh have much nicer downtowns. But, Columbus neighborhoods are incredible, especially German Village and Victorian Village. Perfectly preserved urban neighborhoods.

aah but unlike those cities downtown is the great tabla rasa that columbus is in many ways lucky to have. downtown is held for the future.

they already did right by getting rid of that behemoth city center mall just before malls absolutely totally cratered and made it into a park in the center of downtown. that is quite a canvas to build around. and you can bet downtown will happen soon enough, the pressure is on.

[Crawford]

Indy doesn't feel like Chicago, IMO. It has a very different housing typology and much stronger hint of South. Maybe the downtown around that struggling mall has a vague mini-me feel, but the neighborhoods feel distinct.

Great Lakes cities have a different vibe than the Midwest metros straddling the rolling hills to the south. No question, though, that Columbus has far more interesting and solid neighborhoods than Indy (but downtown Cbus is kinda amazingly bad; downtown Indy is OK for a sprawltastic metro).

[Buckeye Native 001]

I grew up in Cincinnati but if I ever had to move back to Ohio (highly unlikely), my first choice would be Columbus. So much positive going on there right now.

How much is the Arena District contributing to downtown's renaissance, especially with talks of a new MLS stadium being constructed?

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Indy doesn't feel like Chicago, IMO. It has a very different housing typology and much stronger hint of South. Maybe the downtown around that struggling mall has a vague mini-me feel, but the neighborhoods feel distinct.

Great Lakes cities have a different vibe than the Midwest metros straddling the rolling hills to the south. No question, though, that Columbus has far more interesting and solid neighborhoods than Indy (but downtown Cbus is kinda amazingly bad; downtown Indy is OK for a sprawltastic metro).

yes, the highways and urban renewal era did downtown columbus no favors.

again tho, most boom cities would kill for the opportunities to almost totally remake their downtown's that columbus has. its basically an austin north style opportunity for downtown.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Indy doesn't feel like Chicago, IMO. It has a very different housing typology and much stronger hint of South. Maybe the downtown around that struggling mall has a vague mini-me feel, but the neighborhoods feel distinct.

Great Lakes cities have a different vibe than the Midwest metros straddling the rolling hills to the south. No question, though, that Columbus has far more interesting and solid neighborhoods than Indy (but downtown Cbus is kinda amazingly bad; downtown Indy is OK for a sprawltastic metro).

Indy feels very windswept flatland prairie midwestern to me and doesn't really have appreciable hills that roll well into the metro area, and doesn't have an array of polished, river valley sheltered upper class 19th century neighborhoods with magnolias and small setbacks like Louisville, Cincinnati, St. Louis so it doesn't fit the borderland archetype to me.

[aderwent]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

I grew up in Cincinnati but if I ever had to move back to Ohio (highly unlikely), my first choice would be Columbus. So much positive going on there right now.

How much is the Arena District contributing to downtown's renaissance, especially with talks of a new MLS stadium being constructed?

It has helped for sure. It bridges the gap between the Short North and Downtown. However, the entirety of downtown is seeing development. It's not centered near the Arena District. Most residential is going in south of Capitol Square in the River South neighborhood. Bizjournals have a decent "Crane Watch" map here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus...us-crane-watch

This map is kept up to date by local development enthusiasts:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...THQRcIlto&z=14

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

state capitol + flagship state university = success in the midwest.

Tying into the rural vs urban thread in this subforum, this needs to be the model for the US. We need more strong mid tier cities (mid-mid tier cities) instead of superstar cities. While SC + state flagship university is the best model, there are other permutations that can work.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Tying into the rural vs urban thread in this subforum, this needs to be the model for the US. We need more strong mid tier cities (mid-mid tier cities) instead of superstar cities. While SC + state flagship university is the best model, there are other permutations that can work.

Right, you can't really change the state capital situation. However, I would prefer a model of "states" that are 100% centered on individual cities and their actual regional economic organization. Example: say Cincinnati would be its own city-state with a hinterland that envelops areas that are in Kentucky and Indiana right now, and shed most of its immediate association with the current state of Ohio as drawn.

[TexasPlaya]

As a sports fan, I like how Indy transformed itself into a formidable sports mecca for tourism. They do well for hosting events for college basketball and the NFL that are yearly. I went to the NFL combine in 2016 and there were thousands of fans that make the trip plus all the NFL emoplpyees,media, and scouts . I stayed downtown and everything was convenient around the football stadium and convention center. It’s certainly no New Orleans in terms of fun food and drinks but I plan on making another trip.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

Right, you can't really change the state capital situation. However, I would prefer a model of "states" that are 100% centered on individual cities and their actual regional economic organization. Example: say Cincinnati would be its own city-state with a hinterland that envelops areas that are in Kentucky and Indiana right now, and shed most of its immediate association with the current state of Ohio as drawn.

I think education is the key. Not every place can have a flag ship university but there are plenty of ways of sharing the education wealth.

Also I agree with you on the city states view, perhaps organizing them more as a collection of counties.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

As a sports fan, I like how Indy transformed itself into a formidable sports mecca for tourism. They do well for hosting events for college basketball and the NFL that are yearly. I went to the NFL combine in 2016 and there were thousands of fans that make the trip plus all the NFL emoplpyees,media, and scouts . I stayed downtown and everything was convenient around the football stadium and convention center. It’s certainly no New Orleans in terms of fun food and drinks but I plan on making another trip.

Indy basically made a gamble to put all of it's eggs in the downtown basket (really doesn't have the level of legacy institutions of other older nearby regions) and I think it was 100% the right move for Indy. St. Louis is sort of the inverse of the Indy model...it has sunk large amounts of capital and attention/energy into completely rebuilding Forest Park (museums, zoo, trees, roads, pedestrian infrastructure), its antebellum Botanical Gardens, the Central West End, Washington University, and only recently dumped 1/3 of a billion dollars into the Arch, while its convention center languishes, the dome is in disrepair, etc. That's not to say that downtown hasn't received attention, it has, but it's only a piece of the pie whereas in Indy it's everything. Indy has been able to poach a lot of that convention and sports energy from St. Louis, and for good reason.

[goat314]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

Indy basically made a gamble to put all of it's eggs in the downtown basket (really doesn't have the level of legacy institutions of other older nearby regions) and I think it was 100% the right move for Indy. St. Louis is sort of the inverse of the Indy model...it has sunk large amounts of capital and attention/energy into completely rebuilding Forest Park (museums, zoo, trees, roads, pedestrian infrastructure), its antebellum Botanical Gardens, the Central West End, and only recently dumped 1/3 of a billion dollars into the Arch, while its convention center languishes, the dome is in disrepair, etc. That's not to say that downtown hasn't received attention, it has, but it's only a piece of the pie whereas in Indy it's everything. Indy has been able to poach a lot of that convention and sports energy from St. Louis, and for good reason.

Indy did the right thing unifying it's government like Nashville and Louisville. St. Louis is one of the only large midland metros that didn't do this and it's been to it's detriment. No doubt that St. Louis lost out to a lot of nearby metros because of it's corrupt government structure.