Boise Transportation Thread

[jimthemanincda]

Originally Posted by City Of Trees

Again, completely agree.

Occasionally when I get into discussions on how the GOP dominates the legislature, I respond by saying that the real substantial divide is instead between urban and rural. I don't really want to derail further, but I'm sure I could tie that back to transportation if I wanted to.

I completely concur with you City of Trees. The issue is not so much Boise vs. the rest of the state, rather it is the urban areas (Boise, Cd'A, IF, and to a lesser extent Twin Falls and Pocatello) vs. rural areas. As Idaho becomes more urban, hopefully this will become less of an issue...the good thing is a huge amount of the state's growth is coming in the urban areas (see Idaho Department of Labor press release http://labor.idaho.gov/news/NewsRele...2/Default.aspx

[boi2socal]

Originally Posted by BOIguy

Only way for BOI to learn whether it is worthy of funds under this program is to apply. Spokane applied and was successful last year, so why not give it a try? It is a busier airport than BOI.

Well, Spokane has more traffic, but Boise has better service; Boise has a few more non stop destinations. Spokane has faced Southwest cuts as well, and I haven't seen any new routes out of there since this grant. Personally, I think grants and such are just more pork belly spending. In any case, I think Delta would bring back Atlanta or United to Houston. I'm curious how many people a day travel to NYC Area airports.

[BOIguy]

Yes, BOI has more nonstop markets, but GEG has 10% more passenger traffic. Southwest didn't reduce GEG service nearly as much as it did BOI's, either. GEG hasn't seen any airlines biting on its grant award for LAX service, and probably won't. It was so specific that I doubt any airline will be seriously interested in flying a 100-seat or larger plane on the route. The smarter option would have been to propose something like a CRJ-700. The grant funds are only used if a proposal is activated. Some of the awards are questionable, but many are solid opportunities that wouldn't be possible without the grant supporting the proposal. In this environment, BOI having grant funds to use in efforts to improve service to the South/Southeast will help the cause tremendously. I hope it happens! And, as for BOI-NYC traffic, think it's about 60-65 people per day on average.

[isangpogi]

Originally Posted by BOIguy

Yes, BOI has more nonstop markets, but GEG has 10% more passenger traffic. Southwest didn't reduce GEG service nearly as much as it did BOI's, either. GEG hasn't seen any airlines biting on its grant award for LAX service, and probably won't. It was so specific that I doubt any airline will be seriously interested in flying a 100-seat or larger plane on the route. The smarter option would have been to propose something like a CRJ-700. The grant funds are only used if a proposal is activated. Some of the awards are questionable, but many are solid opportunities that wouldn't be possible without the grant supporting the proposal. In this environment, BOI having grant funds to use in efforts to improve service to the South/Southeast will help the cause tremendously. I hope it happens! And, as for BOI-NYC traffic, think it's about 60-65 people per day on average.

I find that strange that GEG has more passengers than BOI, and a larger market when combining CdA and Spokane, but can't get a carrier to fly to Los Angeles. Also Spokane only has seasonal United Express service to Chicago while Boise flies two a day mainline. By far though, Seattle is the top destination with 15+ flights daily.

Air accessibility is all about being able to get to your destination quickly on a convenient schedule. I think Boise is very well connected for a city our size. Going east one can connect through MSP, ORD, SLC or DEN. Where we do struggle is with some short hops. Flying to Reno is now a pain, so is Idaho Falls, Montana and the Tri-Cities. We have nonstop access to large international gateways like LAX, SFO, SEA and ORD. We're really just missing that southeast link that the airport is going after aggressively, which would really open up Latin America, Africa, and the Middle East. After that it just becomes a slow process of getting those short nonstops back and continuing to solidify traffic on the routes we have.

[boi2socal]

Originally Posted by BOIguy

Yes, BOI has more nonstop markets, but GEG has 10% more passenger traffic. Southwest didn't reduce GEG service nearly as much as it did BOI's, either. GEG hasn't seen any airlines biting on its grant award for LAX service, and probably won't. It was so specific that I doubt any airline will be seriously interested in flying a 100-seat or larger plane on the route.

I haven't checked for awhile but I believe BOI and GEG basically have the same set of Southwest destinations and flights now. Alaska flew 737-900s on LAX-GEG for about a year. That's probably why they think they can get a 737 style flight, or hope to.

Boise's air service is much better distributed than GEGs. Boise gets flights to all major CA airports, except San Diego. I believe GEG only gets 4 flights combined, all to the Bay Area. Point is Boise is served well. Of course it could be better. I doubt those short routes will ever come back, they can be driven too easily to justify the expense for a leisure traveler, and I doubt there's much business between Boise and lets say Tri-Cities. I have a feeling that is why Delta's response to Southwest's SLC cuts was to also cut service. Now they're probably shuttling mostly biz travelers and connecting passengers.

[Boiseguy]

Originally Posted by isangpogi

I know I say this quite a bit but legislatively, Idaho is in a very tough spot. Here's why: The Boise metro area is about 600,000. Idaho's population is 1,500,000. The size of Boise makes it the major player but not quite a majority of the state. Furthermore, Idaho is essentially three zones. The Southwest is anchored by Boise. The Southeast is anchored by Salt Lake City and the North is anchored by Spokane. It's difficult to convince legislators whose constituents may only come to Boise a couple times in their lives to send money to maintain and improve infrastructure here.

I remember living in extremely fiscally conservative East Idaho when GARVEE was announced. People were very reluctant to go into debt to finance projects which were mostly in Boise. Gov Kempthorne had to toss in improvements in Sandpoint and Lava Hot Springs area to appease those in the far reaches of Idaho.

Compare this to states like Oregon, Washington and Utah whose largest cities truly are the hubs of activity for the entire state. It's much easier to drum up funding for a new freeway in SLC since even Utahns from St. George travel there often. Those states have a much stronger spirit of unity than Idaho has.

To me this is the biggest obstacle to progress in Idaho... Any thoughts?

The real issue is local option tax... in Washington state, each county sets their sales taxes. So that if ONE county wants to provide infrastructure they can bond for it locally...I don't know how the other states you've mentioned work, but I grew up in washington. I really feel this is how it should be. Let rural be rural and let urban be urban.. Seattle has a 9.9 sales tax.. while many counties in rural eastern washington have 6.5.. This is how it should be I feel.. it allows for local problems to be addressed by local resources... boise shouldn't have to ask idaho falls or sandpoint to help them fix boise problems.. and sand point and idaho falls shouldn't have to pay for fixing those boise problems.. and visa-versa

[isangpogi]

Originally Posted by Boiseguy

The real issue is local option tax... in Washington state, each county sets their sales taxes. So that if ONE county wants to provide infrastructure they can bond for it locally...I don't know how the other states you've mentioned work, but I grew up in washington. I really feel this is how it should be. Let rural be rural and let urban be urban.. Seattle has a 9.9 sales tax.. while many counties in rural eastern washington have 6.5.. This is how it should be I feel.. it allows for local problems to be addressed by local resources... boise shouldn't have to ask idaho falls or sandpoint to help them fix boise problems.. and sand point and idaho falls shouldn't have to pay for fixing those boise problems.. and visa-versa

Totally agree with you. Here's a revealing article about what Eugene has done with it's local option tax: http://www.newwest.net/topic/article...sit/C564/L564/. I don't understand what Idaho's hesitation to a local option tax is. Our super-conservative government whines when the Fed takes any power away from the states but our state government won't cede any authority to local jurisdictions. To me a local option tax would be perfect for our state because of its fractured nature. But the legislature wants to hold all the cards, not the fed and certainly not local government

[City Of Trees]

Originally Posted by isangpogi

Totally agree with you. Here's a revealing article about what Eugene has done with it's local option tax: http://www.newwest.net/topic/article...sit/C564/L564/. I don't understand what Idaho's hesitation to a local option tax is. Our super-conservative government whines when the Fed takes any power away from the states but our state government won't cede any authority to local jurisdictions. To me a local option tax would be perfect for our state because of its fractured nature. But the legislature wants to hold all the cards, not the fed and certainly not local government

*puts conspiracy hat on*

It always feels to me that the rest of the state wants to keep Boise down so that it doesn't grow into a city that dominates the rest of the state like it might in WA, OR, or UT.

[Cottonwood]

Blame it all on Rexburg.

[City Of Trees]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood

Blame it all on Rexburg.

That's always a safe fallback.

[City Of Trees]

This may seem minor to some but it appears that ACHD may be installing a traffic signal at 8th & River. That intersection has always been the difficult one in accessing the 8th St corridor to/from the Greenbelt because you come up to a 2 way stop against you, and at a two-way road in River. Having the ability to go through on a bike through a clear green light, or to walk across without have to reply on those beacons in the road, will be a big plus.

[Cottonwood]

http://www.ktvb.com/news/ACHD-New-bi...159899705.html

ACHD: New bike lanes should reduce conflict, accidents
by KTVB.COM
KTVB.COM
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 11:59 AM


BOISE -- Drivers and cyclists in Ada County should expect to see newly-painted bike lanes with different markings this summer.

Among the new designs are shared lane markings called "sharrows," along with solid-green bike lanes meant for use in heavily trafficked areas.

[isangpogi]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood

http://www.ktvb.com/news/ACHD-New-bi...159899705.html

ACHD: New bike lanes should reduce conflict, accidents
by KTVB.COM
KTVB.COM
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 11:59 AM


BOISE -- Drivers and cyclists in Ada County should expect to see newly-painted bike lanes with different markings this summer.

Among the new designs are shared lane markings called "sharrows," along with solid-green bike lanes meant for use in heavily trafficked areas.

I like the idea... I think that painting the lanes green will help drivers remember that the lane is a bike lane, not just a shoulder or a buffer between the right-turn lane and thru lanes...

[isangpogi]

If anyone is lamenting Frontier's departure from BOI, check out the crap they recently pulled. A little background first: Frontier bought out Midwest Airlines, who had a hub and a very loyal travel base in Milwaukee, WI. They recognized that service would decrease because of the merger but insisted that MKE would play an important role in the new Frontier Airlines. Fast forward to a few months ago and Frontier started dismantling its MKE hub. Only a few flights a day now remain. To ease some very hard feelings, Frontier worked out a deal to transfer frequent flier miles to Delta's SkyMiles program. Nice, right?

Well since Frontier started scaling down Milwaukee service, Southwest started to fill the void. Southwest now serves 15 destinations from MKE with several others still being operated by AirTran which will likely soon convert to Southwest. Southwest offered a deal where Wisconsin residents could donate their Frontier miles to charity and Southwest would match their donation with miles in the customers' rapid rewards account.

Frontier called Southwest on their move by SHUTTING DOWN the ability to donate points to charity... So who really loses here?? Good riddance to Frontier as far as I'm conerned, United and Southwest are certainly better ways to get to Denver from Boise.

[boisecynic]

Urban interchange for State/Veterans/36th?

ACHD is running a survey: http://www.achdidaho.org/Projects/Pu...?ProjectID=240

[boisecynic]

While we're on the subject of urban interchanges, here's a sweet historical document:

Capitol/University/Boise Ave. plans from 1993 aka by ACHD engineers as The CUB.

[isangpogi]

Utah is building flex lanes along a road that sounds a bit like our State Street. There is quite a big difference between inbound and outbound traffic during the rush hours. I wonder if something like this could be implemented on State Street. The UDOT plan still allows for a center turning lane. It's a little scary-looking and I'd be very worried about the possibility of head-on collisions while people got used to it. In the end though, it allows the street's capacity to be maximized with minimal cost.

The big hurdle though would be the fact that the off-peak direction would be cut down to just one lane while the peak direction would be three (figuring in a turn lane). This could be remedied by not allowing left turns during peak travel times and making people drive to the next signalized intersection to make a u-turn. It would be a pain but would be a case of inconveniencing a few for the good of many. Another solution would be to add just one more lane and use this flex system instead of adding a lane to each side...

Check out the video and info: http://www.udot.utah.gov/flexlanes/

[Cottonwood]

That might be a question for ACHD and VRT. I know that they have done several studies and proposals for the State Street redo. I just hope it doesn't turn out looking like a mini interstate such as the street you are referencing. I have been on that street before and think it is a race track for drivers gone mad.
Here is info regarding pedestrian improvements on State set to begin this year.

http://www.achdidaho.org/Projects/Me...NG_DISPLAY.pdf

http://www.achdidaho.org/Projects/Pu...?ProjectID=168

[Cottonwood]

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/0...greenbelt.html

Petition aims to open Greenbelt to bikes in Garden City
Published: July 18, 2012
By SVEN BERG — sberg@idahostatesman.com


Garden City Mayor John Evans and Gary Segers, founder of Citizens for an Open Greenbelt, said they expect to see the measure on Garden City residents’ ballots this fall. To move forward, COG needs 67 signatures from registered Garden City voters, city clerk Jim Krueger said.

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/0...greenbelt.html

Petition aims to open Greenbelt to bikes in Garden City
Published: July 18, 2012
By SVEN BERG — sberg@idahostatesman.com


Garden City Mayor John Evans and Gary Segers, founder of Citizens for an Open Greenbelt, said they expect to see the measure on Garden City residents’ ballots this fall. To move forward, COG needs 67 signatures from registered Garden City voters, city clerk Jim Krueger said.

i really hope they open that section to Bikes. I'd love to bike. I do it respectfully to pedestrians on the greenbelt. and i think it'd be just great to have the blocked off section open to bikes.