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  #8421  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 12:02 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Elon says that he has "oral agreement" for a hyperloop linking Washington to New York with a Philly stop. Exciting stuff! People question whether this can come to frutiion, but I wouldn't bet against this guy.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/20/1...a-baltimore-dc
The only bet I would make is that it won't be economically feasible.

Remember how awesome the Concorde was? NY to London in an hour?!! Sign me up! Oh, it's going to cost $10k? I'll take a nap and fly coach.

The Acela is already prohibitively expensive for the masses. How much will this cost? This will be nothing more than a new Concorde, shuffling a few mega rich hipsters up and down the east coast on near-empty shuttles in vacuum tubes. If it ever even gets done.

It's a cool idea though.
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  #8422  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 1:04 PM
Nova08 Nova08 is offline
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Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
The only bet I would make is that it won't be economically feasible.

Remember how awesome the Concorde was? NY to London in an hour?!! Sign me up! Oh, it's going to cost $10k? I'll take a nap and fly coach.

The Acela is already prohibitively expensive for the masses. How much will this cost? This will be nothing more than a new Concorde, shuffling a few mega rich hipsters up and down the east coast on near-empty shuttles in vacuum tubes. If it ever even gets done.

It's a cool idea though.
Set aside cost to ride, how about cost to build.

The cost of the new and refurb the current rail Hudson tunnels was recently reported as high as $10+ billion. Not apples:apples, but in the same ball partk I'd love to know the cost of a tunnel from NY-Philly, let alone NY-DC. Tunneling under multiple cities, multiple rivers, multiple subway lines. We have to be looking at hundreds of billions.

What about the tens of millions of people along the path, I'm sure they'll be a few NIMBY's that come out for this one.
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  #8423  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 1:55 PM
McBane McBane is offline
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But in the long run, what are the cost savings if we don't have to worry about pollution, road maintenance, traffic, etc.
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  #8424  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 2:08 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
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But in the long run, what are the cost savings if we don't have to worry about pollution, road maintenance, traffic, etc.
Fake news.
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  #8425  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 2:53 PM
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Urbanthusiat Urbanthusiat is offline
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Probably what happened:



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  #8426  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 3:26 PM
allovertown allovertown is offline
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Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
The only bet I would make is that it won't be economically feasible.

Remember how awesome the Concorde was? NY to London in an hour?!! Sign me up! Oh, it's going to cost $10k? I'll take a nap and fly coach.

The Acela is already prohibitively expensive for the masses. How much will this cost? This will be nothing more than a new Concorde, shuffling a few mega rich hipsters up and down the east coast on near-empty shuttles in vacuum tubes. If it ever even gets done.

It's a cool idea though.
The difference is the Concorde was prohibitively expensive to run each and every time it flew, thus costs could never really fall. With a project like this, the enormous cost will be the actual creation of the infrastructure, once complete the cost to operate it will be a minuscule fraction of the cost to create this thing.

They would have no incentive to price so many people out of the service so that it is mostly unused. This project is incredibly unlikely to be built, but if it is, there is no reason to expect a 10K price tag. It would have to be priced to compete with acela.
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  #8427  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 6:24 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
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The difference is the Concorde was prohibitively expensive to run each and every time it flew, thus costs could never really fall. With a project like this, the enormous cost will be the actual creation of the infrastructure, once complete the cost to operate it will be a minuscule fraction of the cost to create this thing.

They would have no incentive to price so many people out of the service so that it is mostly unused. This project is incredibly unlikely to be built, but if it is, there is no reason to expect a 10K price tag. It would have to be priced to compete with acela.
I hear ya.

The Acela is almost double what regular Amtrak is and it gets you to NYC about 15 minutes quicker. I would expect that they would price this far more than Acela if the est. travel time was 15 minutes.

No question about the cost to build. Unless The Boring Company just turns that thing on and it automatically lays finished pneumatic tubes, you're talking hundreds of billions, much of that federal and state money. Even still, the engineering and planning would cost serious dough.

I would think that they would rather just update the rails - the far more conventional and proven system - if they were going to commit that kind of scratch.
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  #8428  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 6:26 PM
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Parkway Parkway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allovertown View Post
The difference is the Concorde was prohibitively expensive to run each and every time it flew, thus costs could never really fall. With a project like this, the enormous cost will be the actual creation of the infrastructure, once complete the cost to operate it will be a minuscule fraction of the cost to create this thing.

They would have no incentive to price so many people out of the service so that it is mostly unused. This project is incredibly unlikely to be built, but if it is, there is no reason to expect a 10K price tag. It would have to be priced to compete with acela.
My fear is that Musk's plan is to shift public money away from the NEC and into his hyperloop plan. He doesn't have to compete with Acela if it doesn't exist. Musk has proposed a number of pie in the sky plans in an effort to shift investment in California away from public transportation. If he wants to do this with private money then I'm all for it.
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  #8429  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 6:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Parkway View Post
My fear is that Musk's plan is to shift public money away from the NEC and into his hyperloop plan. He doesn't have to compete with Acela if it doesn't exist. Musk has proposed a number of pie in the sky plans in an effort to shift investment in California away from public transportation. If he wants to do this with private money then I'm all for it.
If it proves technologically feasible and economically viable and affordable for passengers and cargo in the longterm (both are far from proven at this time), divert as much public money from Acela to help with upfront costs as you want. We don't travel in horse n buggy's anymore either.
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  #8430  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 7:31 PM
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If it proves technologically feasible and economically viable and affordable for passengers and cargo in the longterm (both are far from proven at this time), divert as much public money from Acela to help with upfront costs as you want. We don't travel in horse n buggy's anymore either.
Upgrading the existing NEC benefits both commuters and inter-city travelers whereas hyperloop only benefits intercity travelers. The technology itself is poorly suited for commuter operations.
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  #8431  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 8:02 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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Originally Posted by Parkway View Post
Upgrading the existing NEC benefits both commuters and inter-city travelers whereas hyperloop only benefits intercity travelers. The technology itself is poorly suited for commuter operations.
right. Acela isn't faster because there is no national commitment to make it faster. It's that simple. Invest the necessary billions and we could have better service.
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  #8432  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 10:16 PM
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Knight Hospitaller Knight Hospitaller is offline
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Originally Posted by Parkway View Post
My fear is that Musk's plan is to shift public money away from the NEC and into his hyperloop plan. He doesn't have to compete with Acela if it doesn't exist. Musk has proposed a number of pie in the sky plans in an effort to shift investment in California away from public transportation. If he wants to do this with private money then I'm all for it.
He can't sell his cars without public money (he's sold zero in Australia where he gets no subsidy). He won't do this without public money.
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  #8433  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2017, 11:55 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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Upgrading the existing NEC benefits both commuters and inter-city travelers whereas hyperloop only benefits intercity travelers. The technology itself is poorly suited for commuter operations.
That's true. But if hyperloop proves viable and economical, spending billions on faster Acela that will still be subpar and much slower is a waste of money. Hyperloop for premium intercity travel and normal rail as a lower cost alternative and for commuters will do just fine.
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  #8434  
Old Posted Yesterday, 2:47 AM
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Another crane has gone up in North Philly!

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