NEW YORK | 200 Greenwich - 2 WTC | 1,270 FT | 80 FLOORS | ON HOLD

[wilfredo267]

l'm just reminded how beautiful Maki's tower turned out despite the initial criticism from people and cant help feeling that when this tower is complete it will end up surprising people as well.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Dwils01

I really like this new building but it still doesn't compete with the other proposal for tower 2.

The four diamonds was one of my favourite buildings design that I've seen in a very long time.

Brings home my point. Exactly what do you know about the Foster design that was vastly superior to this one beyond the diamond summit everyone liked? Then put on a rational thinking cap, look at the new version, and tell me which one people would rather work in. Don't even bother with that second part.

Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham

@ Henry Melcher

This is a much more substantial tower, more equal in stature to the Freedom Tower. Now Im trying to figure out if 125 is in the model.

Originally Posted by NYC2ATX

So. I'm quoting myself because this got lost in 7 pages of whining and I'm just kind of surprised at all of you. Half of these comments are just "f**k this complex" "everything is ruined" "it's a disgrace" blah blah, your attitudes are a disgrace. Really, I've never seen such a bunch of dismissive, stubborn, ungrateful and closed-minded people in my life.

The diamond design was 8 years old. It had no promise of tenants and was really just a concept, albeit a beloved one, and something that was going to remain on our computer screens for an indefinite amount of time until some company magically came along needing exactly that type of space in exactly that layout. Slim odds...especially when you consider that this complex houses almost no financial companies this time around. With the likes of Conde Nast and GroupM setting up house, it should really be called the World Media Center or something.

The notion of a new WTC complex was conjured up with the idea of resurrecting the former glory of the old towers, but those buildings were designed in a different time, for a market that doesn't exist anymore. Finance companies are shrinking space, going paperless, computerizing and automating everything. Nobody was going to come along to scoop up the diamond design and NewsCorp/Fox is going to give us a real building and a finished complex that does something greater than resurrect the glory of the old twins, but gives us a brand new glory with buildings that are relevant in the 21st Century...without any missing pieces.

So guys, stop bellyaching for a second, and maybe think about what you're actually upset about. After all, a nice building that actually gets built is better than a beautiful building in a photo slapped on some fences surrounding a dormant site that may never wake up.

I don't know about you, but I'm ready for this saga to enter its final chapter and have the city healed again once and for all.

I agree. But all likely to fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. More people will come around when the initial shock and anger over losing Foster's design passes.

Originally Posted by Enigmatism415

This actually looks so so so much better. Can you PLEASE send this in to the powers that be?

The powers that be know FAR more about what they are doing and need to do than you. And I'm glad for that, because we will now have this tower getting built, and now, not at some theoretical point in the future.

Originally Posted by qwho

Bottom line, this doesn't fit with the rest of the site. It just doesn't, and if they can't see that, they are blind.

Also proved my point about some of you not looking. Because one criticism can be that it blends in too much. That's not a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Dale

I'm not sure if this is allowed, but I rather like it. And the thing I like most about is that it appears to be moving forward. Good God! it's been a long time since 2001.

Yes it has! Just ignore the whiners, they'd rather have a huge chunk of the WTC cut off forever. But let them vent. I want the site rebuilt, the city whole, and we're getting a great tower in the process!

[Hypothalamus]

It's a sustainably innovative design, and tries to compliment the setbacks exhibited on 3 and 4 WTC. To be honest, I think this will turn out better than the pictures; BIG is new to designing/rendering supertall structures, hence collaborating with Heatherwood, and it's hard to image cantilevers that prominent from Tribeca and further uptown, as currently depicted. That being said, the base needs some work and should be better integrated with FiDi's existing urban fabric, like 3 & 4 WTC are.

The model looks better than the renderings; the architectural elements are much more subtle.

[Kurtz]

Originally Posted by NYguy

^ BTW, getting into politics is automatic deletion. Don't do it.





I am absolutely serious. I would question if you guys are blind or just hurt over the loss of the Foster design. I expected outrage over the design change. And I liked Foster's design as well. But I am much more practical over what the site has become. And if Foster's tower had lost it's diamond shaped summit, what else can you show me that was far superior to this sesign?

When the dust settles, and reality sinks in, I think a lot of you will look back over some of these statements and realize just how silly they are. In the meantime, carry on. Let's see who can outdo who in level of ridiculousness...

Full agree with nyguy.
Plus the 4 wtc is one of most beautiful building in the world and don't underrate it.

About the dimond norman foster design, well if we really want to be honest would have taken the stage to the other towers on the one hand, while on the other views had nothing special. Ok very nice the foster tower , but I prefer the new version of Bjarke Ingels, more elegant

[Enigmatism415]

Originally Posted by NYguy

The powers that be know FAR more about what they are doing and need to do than you. And I'm glad for that, because we will now have this tower getting built, and now, not at some theoretical point in the future.

No career, degree, or portfolio warrants aesthetic hegemony. Following building codes and the laws of physics is one thing, but the artistic aspect is subjective. I, and clearly many others, believe this tower to be aesthetically inappropriate for the complex. I was actually rather ambivalent about Foster's design, so you can't accuse me of being blinded by my love for it; it has nothing to do with Foster's design.

The problem that I have with the tower truly comes down to the narrowing form seen from the east and west. The north-south narrowing of the trunk as it approaches the top does not offset the east-west narrowing of the trunk as it approaches the base. The appearance of floors without anything directly underneath them is aesthetically abhorrent when its sibling towers do not share this feature. This tower has an obligation to fit in with the WTC complex, not TriBeCa of all places. As it is, the average visitor will likely presume that this tower represents a project separate from the WTC. 2WTC was crucial because it was to be the tower that tied the complex together and discouraged people from saying 'Freedom Tower (and Ground Zero)' when 'World Trade Center' would be far more appropriate.

[Enigmatism415]

Originally Posted by winlinmac001

I can't wait for this thing to be built, What do they call this again? Oh yeah, the PAC.

This.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by JR Ewing

If you think that Wilshire Grand, Salesforce, and that idiotic Wanda tower are superior to this, then that simply validates your New York bias.

Pot calling the kettle black. You just hate anything that's not in NY (or London I suppose). All of those buildings you listed including the "idiotic" Wanda tower are gorgeous at least for me.

Granted I do like height and size and the new 2WTC has both, but it doesn't really fit from many angles. It will look similar to the old twins from some so that's a plus but the cantilever, while a feat of engineering is over the top.

In due time it'll probably grow on me. We have to live with it no matter what...

[Kurtz]

http://sustainablecitiescollective.c...office-tenants
Well from this side massive to put in shame the 1 wtc, if the rendering ratio btw the two towers is correct

[winlinmac001]

This architect would have been great for the performing arts center, since he was kissing Tribeca's a$$.

Each news channel should get their own box in this tower, would be interesting

[drumz0rz]

Originally Posted by scalziand

Don't forget WTC5, which doesn't even have tentative plans at this point. Only when a tower rises on that site will I consider the WTC to be completed.

Why?

130 Liberty Street was never related to the WTC other than when it got punched in the face on 9/11.

They refer to it as '5 WTC' in promotional materials however considering there has never really been a proposal for the site in the 13.5 years I suspect that when something is eventually built there, it won't be connected to the WTC and will take a street name. Do any controlling interests (Silverstein, Durst, PA NY/NJ) even have control over that site?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by drumz0rz

Why?
Do any controlling interests (Silverstein, Durst, PA NY/NJ) even have control over that site?

The PA owns the 5 WTC site and plans to sell as soon as the site is prepped (they're still doing work below the site).

Given that it will almost certainly be a condo/hotel, I could see it with an official name other than 5 WTC, but the PA will still have the right to dictate the specifics, and there's probably a ton of "brand value" having a WTC hotel/condo tower, so I assume the name will be incorporated in some format.

[JR Ewing]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Pot calling the kettle black. You just hate anything that's not in NY (or London I suppose). All of those buildings you listed including the "idiotic" Wanda tower are gorgeous at least for me.

Granted I do like height and size and the new 2WTC has both, but it doesn't really fit from many angles. It will look similar to the old twins from some so that's a plus but the cantilever, while a feat of engineering is over the top.

In due time it'll probably grow on me. We have to live with it no matter what...

Please, Jay. Go share your doom and gloom about the Capital of the World on SSC.

[rlw777]

Originally Posted by JR Ewing

If you think that Wilshire Grand, Salesforce, and that idiotic Wanda tower are superior to this, then that simply validates your New York bias.

hard to call someones critique of a building a bias against New York when they were happy with the previous design. I mean either your logic is nonsense or I'm feeding the troll here.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by JR Ewing

Please, Jay. Go share your doom and gloom about the Capital of the World on SSC.

Yea okay dude, in the meantime kindly stop trolling everywhere (both here and SSC). Provide information, that's fine but the rest is just annoying.

[Skyguy_7]

Boy, this poor thread took a real nose dive in the last 36 hours. Everything I hate about SSC has made its way over here. Besides, cmon, it's hard to argue that it doesn't fit well, if not better than Foster's design, from this view. The building is massive and will be awe-inspiring from all angles.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by Skyguy_7

Hard to argue that it doesn't fit well, if not better than Foster's design, from this view.

It does from that view but not so much from the North and East.

While driving into NYC from the freeway it might just look like the old twin towers again which is pretty awesome but I'm sold on the crazy boxes and tapering.

[JR Ewing]

Originally Posted by rlw777

hard to call someones critique of a building a bias against New York when they were happy with the previous design. I mean either your logic is nonsense or I'm feeding the troll here.

Most people aren't saying that they preferred the old design; they're further stating that the new one is horrific. People are entitled to their opinions, but that's absurd. Any city would love to have this magnificent tower, which, by the way, is much better than Salesforce, Wanda Chi., or Wilshire.

[Enigmatism415]

Preferable Amendment Options (Original / Option A / Option AB / Option B):

[Skyguy_7]

Originally Posted by nyc_alex

I'm not crazy about the tower but I don't hate it. I did love Foster's design though so I'm sad to see it go.

It is indeed a shame to see Foster's go, but there area plenty of opportunities elsewhere in NYC for something just as magnificent. I think this revision's best chance of "making sense" in the downtown skyline will be when viewed with 56 Leonard in the picture. Those two will certainly make a unique team.

[Michagain]

Hmmm, that's the design, eh?

Great! Love it. Build it. Now. (well, hurry up and get leases financed and signed!)

It's big, brash, brutal, and uncomfortable. But it does all four well. From most angles this will help the whole WTC come alive, architecturally. Now we have a taller, more powerful building that anchors 1WTC very nice and seemingly restores the skyline for real.

It's big, bold, and evokes a different sense of power. 2WTC looks like a big machine of stacked components, a weird next-generation version of one of the old twin towers.

The flat top pulls it into the rest of complex, nicely-cladded flat tops suggest (to me) a more serious, confident projection of the city in the skyline.

Edit: Removed naughty reference to a freedom tower.