Interprovincial bridge crossing discussion

[Dado]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The city needs to step up and solve its own problems instead of depending on the NCC to study a bunch of issues indefinitely. Having the City exploring the idea of a tunnel under King Eds would be a good start.

Although I would much prefer a King Eds tunnel for now, which would not only take nearly every truck off of downtown streets giving us the chance to finally return King Eds as a grand boulevard, it might bring the issue of the Quebec government backing down from any financial commitment since the tunnel would only be on the Ottawa side. Another issue would be the trucks containing hazardous waste (as McC has mentioned a few times before).

Watson may be on to something about "economies of scale" and such. Tunnels could also be bored for an LRT connection to the M-C bridge from the Confederation Line tunnel.

The thing is we keep doing individual project studies with different project proponents rather than taking a holistic approach to downtown transportation issues and sorting out a bunch of disparate problems in one study.

As for Kettle Island, if a bridge is the only option offered to us, it would likely be the best option for the Ontario side with an Aviation Expressway (fully grade separated with on/off ramps at Rockliffe, Montreal, Ogilvie), already surrounded by a buffer zone of woods, connecting directly to the 417/174 interchange. But for the Quebec side, there is no solution to the mess that would be la Monté Paiment with all its strip malls, apartments and traffic lights.

The other two options (Upper and Lower Duck) are great for Quebec, but would require a major overhaul of the split and highway 174 to a 6+ lane provincial highway.

I don't know if Kettle Island would come out on top if a downtown truck tunnel were also built. I have enough familiarity with the ranking process to know that the ability of the Kettle Island location to "draw off" some (but by no means all) downtown truck traffic was a significant factor in its winning out. With a downtown truck tunnel, that factor would cease to be meaningful.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Dado

Watson may be on to something about "economies of scale" and such. Tunnels could also be bored for an LRT connection to the M-C bridge from the Confederation Line tunnel.

Extremely doubtful unless Watson gets Gatineau on board to have our LRT run somewhere on their turf and also the feds who own the bridge.

[eternallyme]

Any downtown tunnel does not need the NCC either, since it falls entirely in the City of Ottawa.

The tunnel's south portal would be at the Waller curve just south of Laurier Avenue where the temporary Transitway section is to be built. Some greenspace would be required to widen Nicholas to 6 lanes, with a widening to 8 lanes approaching the curve (luckily, more space is available there). The outer lanes would come in/out of downtown, the inner lanes into the tunnel. It would be all-electronic toll (no cash), a possible toll is $3.00 for cars and $2.00/axle for trucks.

The tunnel would dig deep to clear the LRT lines (both the main line and a future Rideau Street line) then basically run dead straight, roughly under Dalhousie Street, for about 1.6 km. It would rise back to the surface with a tunnel at the Boteler/Dalhousie ramp (which would be closed) requiring some land from the embassies surrounding (but not the whole properties). Ramps would be built to keep traffic flowing to King Edward though, and a new ramp to Boteler further east would be built to allow traffic to access Sussex and the Byward Market (less directly).

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Any downtown tunnel does not need the NCC either, since it falls entirely in the City of Ottawa.

The tunnel's south portal would be at the Waller curve just south of Laurier Avenue where the temporary Transitway section is to be built. Some greenspace would be required to widen Nicholas to 6 lanes, with a widening to 8 lanes approaching the curve (luckily, more space is available there). The outer lanes would come in/out of downtown, the inner lanes into the tunnel. It would be all-electronic toll (no cash), a possible toll is $3.00 for cars and $2.00/axle for trucks.

The tunnel would dig deep to clear the LRT lines (both the main line and a future Rideau Street line) then basically run dead straight, roughly under Dalhousie Street, for about 1.6 km. It would rise back to the surface with a tunnel at the Boteler/Dalhousie ramp (which would be closed) requiring some land from the embassies surrounding (but not the whole properties). Ramps would be built to keep traffic flowing to King Edward though, and a new ramp to Boteler further east would be built to allow traffic to access Sussex and the Byward Market (less directly).

A tunnel still needs federal cash so the NCC would have to be onboard. I don't think the toll numbers could come close to paying for a tunnel on their own.

IF you build the tunnel you outline you will still need to do something to increase capacity on the 5 and 50 on the Gatineau side if you want Quebec and Gatineau to pay. They won't agree to something that only takes trucks out of downtown ottawa and doesn't increase Gatineau to Ottawa commuting capacity.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Any downtown tunnel does not need the NCC either, since it falls entirely in the City of Ottawa.

For starters, any such tunnel would connect to the M-C Bridge, so the NCC is already involved.

A tunnel would likely touch upon lands that the NCC either owns or has covenants on, again involving them. For instance your own proposal requires some greenspace along Nicholas.

In addition, the MTO would likely be involved one way or another as well.

I'm afraid that whether we like it or not, all three levels of government on the Ontario side would be involved. The saving grace is that the Quebec side governments probably could be excluded if there was no substantial change in traffic levels on that side.