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  #141  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2012, 12:21 AM
Spire Spire is offline
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
This is occurring right now. Will anyone be there to take pictures?
It's your lucky day! I was there, and took some photos, and a video as well (embedded below). A very impressive terminal, and almost all of the people I overheard were saying similar things.

Video Link
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  #142  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2012, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Spire View Post
It's your lucky day! I was there, and took some photos, and a video as well (embedded below). A very impressive terminal, and almost all of the people I overheard were saying similar things.

Video Link
Quite impressive video work, really steady hand!! This terminal looks really impressive, if they can use this as a blue print and set this up in Clayton Park, it would be awesome and a great time saver as the design has already been created and built!!
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  #143  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2012, 1:06 AM
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It is good to see so many pictures. It looks like the terminal could be easily expanded if ever needed.
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  #144  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2012, 3:20 AM
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Isn't there supposed to be some commercial space in there?
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  #145  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2012, 3:52 AM
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There is a photo there of a 'kiosk to come'.
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  #146  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2012, 4:08 AM
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The photos and videos are great - well done! I'm glad to see that Metro Transit is stepping up the quality of terminals. I agree, if this is going to be the blueprint for the Lacewood Terminal then the future looks good for Transit users and it becoming more attractive.

I spent the weekend in Vancouver and I can tell you that when compared to the Millennium/Expo line Skytrain stations versus the Canada Line, the newer Canada Line stations are much better and nicer. I also like the landscaping treatment - it looks pretty good. But mainly what I like is the fact that Metro Transit used it like a party and gave an opportunity to check it out. That's what we need to do more off in HRM and that's great!
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  #147  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2012, 3:10 PM
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Very nice.

The fences upstairs arent nearly as intrusive as I feared.
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  #148  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2012, 12:57 AM
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Excellent facility. I wonder if you can buy a Metro Pass there?
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  #149  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2012, 1:09 AM
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It didnt take long, but the criticism the facility has begun.

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/bus...-inefficiences

I dont agree with his argument that the facility was overbuilt and too expensive.

He did make a few good points however, namely that Alderney Landing would have been a better location for the terminal given its closeness to the ferries and train tracks for future LRT use.
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  #150  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2012, 2:43 AM
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I don't know about Alderney Landing. Inter-modal connections are one area where Metro Transit could improve a lot but the Alderney ferry terminal is not well-located with respect to the road network. Building a terminal there would mean a detour for a lot of trips, and the ferry itself is not as attractive to people situated farther out in the suburbs. The Dartmouth LRT is probably a pipe dream given how low density that area is and given how the Bedford rail project has failed to materialize.

The #1 issue with Halifax transit is that Metro Transit needs to nail down one or two fast (dedicated ROW), reliable, high-frequency (2-5 minute frequency) routes. Those are the routes the rest of the system should be built around.
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  #151  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2012, 2:59 AM
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Originally Posted by teddifax View Post
Quite impressive video work, really steady hand!!
Thanks! You can thank YouTube's camera stabilization tool for the steady hand though: the original video was a disaster of shakycam!

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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I don't know about Alderney Landing. Inter-modal connections are one area where Metro Transit could improve a lot but the Alderney ferry terminal is not well-located with respect to the road network. Building a terminal there would mean a detour for a lot of trips, and the ferry itself is not as attractive to people situated farther out in the suburbs.
Agree entirely. I live north of the bridge in Dartmouth, and it would be a huge inconvenience to my daily commute to have to detour to downtown Dartmouth each day before heading over the bridge.

A few years back, Metro Transit estimated that it would cost an additional $550,000 a year in operational expenses to detour buses to Alderney Gate. In addition, there is no land to build a suitable terminal around there as well.

http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...00518cai11.pdf

Quote:
The #1 issue with Halifax transit is that Metro Transit needs to nail down one or two fast (dedicated ROW), reliable, high-frequency (2-5 minute frequency) routes. Those are the routes the rest of the system should be built around.
Again, I agree entirely. The Portland St corridor is a step in the right direction, but we can take it further. Route 1 would be a good place to start: run it every 5 minutes, build some bus only lanes or (gasp!) make Barrington St and Spring Garden Road accessible to bus and delivery trucks only, as was suggested by the consultants, and we would truly start to approach great transit on the Peninsula.

Last edited by Spire; Oct 2, 2012 at 3:09 AM.
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  #152  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2012, 3:40 AM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I don't know about Alderney Landing. Inter-modal connections are one area where Metro Transit could improve a lot but the Alderney ferry terminal is not well-located with respect to the road network. Building a terminal there would mean a detour for a lot of trips, and the ferry itself is not as attractive to people situated farther out in the suburbs. The Dartmouth LRT is probably a pipe dream given how low density that area is and given how the Bedford rail project has failed to materialize.

The #1 issue with Halifax transit is that Metro Transit needs to nail down one or two fast (dedicated ROW), reliable, high-frequency (2-5 minute frequency) routes. Those are the routes the rest of the system should be built around.
I agree that the traffic flow in the landing area isn't optimal, and I dont even know if that is a problem that could be solved. High frequency "feeder" routes are another excellent idea.

I guess I like the concept of a true intermodal station combining rail (sooner rather than later I hope), buses and ferry. How this would play out in reality however remains to be seen.
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  #153  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2012, 7:07 PM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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The bridge terminal is in a perfect location for a transit hub. Any bus routes going from Halifax to Dartmouth have to pass by the bridge terminal. Similarly any bus routes running north to south in Dartmouth also likely have to run by this location. It's a natural transfer point BECAUSE it's located by the bridge. Roger Taylor's piece is written by someone who doesn't understand transit routing in general, and Halifax's transit needs in particular. He makes the common mistake of putting too much importance on a transit technology (wouldn't it be amazing if everyone rode the ferry!) instead of how that technology fits into the system.

Bridge Terminal serves 23,000 riders/day vs. maybe 3,000 riders/day for the ferry. The ferry is bound to be a niche service because there's only three stations. Unless your origin and destination are within walking distance of the terminals you'll likely require a transfer on at least one end of your ferry trip, or a park and ride lot. There simply isn't enough space to do a big park and ride at Alderney. Connections to the ferry should be improved massively but I think it makes more sense to look for a high speed network that connects major hubs and destinations within the network: the bridge terminal is naturally one of these hubs, but the ferry is less so.

EDIT: Thanks for the video Teddifax. Is the real time Go-Time up and running? Or do those big boards simply show scheduled bus times?
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  #154  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2012, 8:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly View Post
EDIT: Thanks for the video Teddifax. Is the real time Go-Time up and running? Or do those big boards simply show scheduled bus times?
Actually, it was my video, but no worries.

And yes, the real time Go-Time is up and running! There are a few routes (such as the Airport MetroX) that are only displaying scheduled times, but the vast majority are real time. Now if only some people would actually go inside and take a look instead of loudly complaining that they don't know when their bus is coming, as I witnessed today!
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  #155  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2012, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Spire View Post
Actually, it was my video, but no worries.

And yes, the real time Go-Time is up and running! There are a few routes (such as the Airport MetroX) that are only displaying scheduled times, but the vast majority are real time. Now if only some people would actually go inside and take a look instead of loudly complaining that they don't know when their bus is coming, as I witnessed today!
I messaged him back to let him know it wasn't my video!
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  #156  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2012, 11:23 AM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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Originally Posted by Spire View Post
Actually, it was my video, but no worries.

And yes, the real time Go-Time is up and running! There are a few routes (such as the Airport MetroX) that are only displaying scheduled times, but the vast majority are real time. Now if only some people would actually go inside and take a look instead of loudly complaining that they don't know when their bus is coming, as I witnessed today!
I'll change my citation. Thanks Spire.

Nice to see Go Time up and running.
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  #157  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2012, 6:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly View Post
Bridge Terminal serves 23,000 riders/day vs. maybe 3,000 riders/day for the ferry.
The nice thing about the ferry is that it means that 5,000-10,000 people could comfortably move into downtown Dartmouth and have a nice commute to Halifax that does not involve putting more burden on the road network. With King's Wharf and some of the other proposals we are finally seeing a scale of development there that will actually make a difference. Regional plans have called for more density in downtown Dartmouth for years but then the community council (effectively 2 people) tends to fight them. It is the same in the residential areas of the Peninsula.

Because of the lower density and the difficulty of getting over the bridges I think it makes sense to have a variety of services in Dartmouth. A big LRT network is not viable there because of the small population and naturally lower transit market share. The MetroLink and ferry services are quite decent. MetroX meanwhile is about as good as it will get in the far-flung suburbs like Tantallon. People need to realize that they are making trade-offs when they choose to move 40 minutes out of the city. They get more square footage and a bigger lot but the downside is that they will have poorer municipal services because they are more difficult to provide to low-density areas. A lot of HRM tensions exist because people don't accept this simple and seemingly obvious reality.

I think the Halifax-Bedford area is the most under-served right now. The level of service there is low compared to the current demand and the level of suitability for transit-oriented development.

Last edited by someone123; Oct 3, 2012 at 6:25 PM.
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  #158  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2012, 12:24 PM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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The nice thing about the ferry is that it means that 5,000-10,000 people could comfortably move into downtown Dartmouth and have a nice commute to Halifax that does not involve putting more burden on the road network. With King's Wharf and some of the other proposals we are finally seeing a scale of development there that will actually make a difference. Regional plans have called for more density in downtown Dartmouth for years but then the community council (effectively 2 people) tends to fight them. It is the same in the residential areas of the Peninsula.

Because of the lower density and the difficulty of getting over the bridges I think it makes sense to have a variety of services in Dartmouth. A big LRT network is not viable there because of the small population and naturally lower transit market share. The MetroLink and ferry services are quite decent. MetroX meanwhile is about as good as it will get in the far-flung suburbs like Tantallon. People need to realize that they are making trade-offs when they choose to move 40 minutes out of the city. They get more square footage and a bigger lot but the downside is that they will have poorer municipal services because they are more difficult to provide to low-density areas. A lot of HRM tensions exist because people don't accept this simple and seemingly obvious reality.

I think the Halifax-Bedford area is the most under-served right now. The level of service there is low compared to the current demand and the level of suitability for transit-oriented development.
I don't mean the ferry isn't important - it is. Just that there's limitations.

My very limited transit experience in Dartmouth is it's decent to get to downtown Halifax, and not great to get anywhere else. But that's what you get when almost every route ends in the same damn places: Bridge Terminal or downtown Halifax.

I think Bedford definitely has the worst service. Sackville doesn't seem great either, although the link boosts things a bit if you are heading downtown. Unfortunately the possibility of good transit service in Bedford has been forever compromised by a horrible road network. There should have been a road running straight from Hammonds Plains to Larry Uteck running below Paper Mill. That way you could actually run a bus in a straight line through those new areas of development. Instead you see a number of slow, low frequency routes with low ridership (80, 81, 90). Unfortunately this is most of Metro Transit's system.
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  #159  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2012, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly View Post
I think Bedford definitely has the worst service. Sackville doesn't seem great either, although the link boosts things a bit if you are heading downtown. Unfortunately the possibility of good transit service in Bedford has been forever compromised by a horrible road network. There should have been a road running straight from Hammonds Plains to Larry Uteck running below Paper Mill. That way you could actually run a bus in a straight line through those new areas of development. Instead you see a number of slow, low frequency routes with low ridership (80, 81, 90). Unfortunately this is most of Metro Transit's system.
Agreed for the most part.

Service in Sackville is adequate mainly because of the MetroLink and it's two express counterparts (84, 85). What is missing in the area is a frequent service for Sackville Drive (currently only the 80 serves most of it), direct service to its lower-class areas (ie Leaside), and a BRT from Cobequid Terminal (possible "184"?).

As for Bedford it is in a whole other ball-league. It provides most of the ridership on the "80" (Sackville goes DT via Dartmouth) but that is almost all of its service. There is a definite need for a proper express service but one simple SHORT-TERM solution is rerouting the "87". If it were to go through Sunnyside/East Bedford it would provide a connection to the MetroLink in Burnside along with all the connections at the Bridge Terminal. Pressure would reduce from the "80" north of Sunnyside. This was recommended by the 5-year plan consultants and it was the original plan back when the route was created but Metro Transit has since dismissed it because it would slow down service on that route.

As for the road layout in Bedford it will get better. Within a year or so Oceanview - The Ravines (via Nine Mile), Hemlock Ravines - The Ravines (via Starboard), within 5 years Bedford South - Bedford West (via Kearney Lake Connector), and eventually Bedford South - Hammonds Plains (via Nine Mile in Papermill West). This will end up extending the 81 and 90 and introducing many more routes. Ultimately MetroLink will have to be introduced to The Ravines and West Bedford via a run on Highway 102.
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  #160  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2012, 8:08 PM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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As for the road layout in Bedford it will get better. Within a year or so Oceanview - The Ravines (via Nine Mile), Hemlock Ravines - The Ravines (via Starboard), within 5 years Bedford South - Bedford West (via Kearney Lake Connector), and eventually Bedford South - Hammonds Plains (via Nine Mile in Papermill West). This will end up extending the 81 and 90 and introducing many more routes. Ultimately MetroLink will have to be introduced to The Ravines and West Bedford via a run on Highway 102.
That's good to hear that the connections between subdivisions will improve. I think a Link-type route for Bedford is a necessity, whether on 102 or Bedford Highway is the question. The 102 is probably a better route, but how much time would be lost pulling on/off the highway a few times?
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