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  #41  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2019, 9:28 PM
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Chicago likes to pretend it doesn't look up to anyone, but it should look up to Toronto I think. If you turn Chicago on its side you get Toronto, kind of.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2019, 10:13 PM
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Halifax has always had some trouble finding a suitable role model because it's the largest urban area within a 1000km drive (Portland ME has a larger "metro" area) and most of the largest urban areas after that a so much larger they aren't useful comparisons (Boston, Montreal, NYC, etc.) Quebec City is the one exception, but there isn't much talk about learning from it since the perception is that main way it's further ahead is in terms of its historic architectural legacy which we can't really do much about. It seems that either cities are in the right size range but don't offer lesson we find useful, or are too big or too foreign (sometimes overseas) for us to feel comfortable making comparisons to.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2019, 10:35 PM
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I think Miami looks up to New York ( being known as one of the “sixth boroughs” due to transplants), Chicago ( similar design/ layout and Northern influence like with NYC), and Los Angeles ( southernmost metropolis on the coast, celebrity vibes, car-centric lifestyle, etc).


What Miami should be looking up to since its birth are Havana, Nassau, Singapore, Rio, Sydney, and other close urban tropical/ subtropical cities. Maybe even some of the other cities in the eastern Mediterranean like Beirut and Tel Aviv could have served as good models. But more realistically now, LA, New Orleans, and SF ( to a lesser extent) are good models since they share some architectural and urban layout similarities with the densest parts of Miami like South Beach and Little Havana and are not traditional northern pre war cities like New York, Boston, or Chicago.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
What Miami should be looking up to since its birth are Havana, Nassau, Singapore, Rio, Sydney, and other close urban tropical/ subtropical cities. Maybe even some of the other cities in the eastern Mediterranean like Beirut and Tel Aviv could have served as good models. But more realistically now, LA, New Orleans, and SF ( to a lesser extent) are good models since they share some architectural and urban layout similarities with the densest parts of Miami like South Beach and Little Havana and are not traditional northern pre war cities like New York, Boston, or Chicago.
Almost everybody thinks San Francisco more closely resembles those "traditional northern pre war cities" than almost anywhere in the post-war "sun belt" (except for the fact it has palm trees). In fact, the city was established in 1776 making it as old as many eastern cities, boomed in the 1849 gold rush and was as much or more of a major American city in the early 20th century as now. Most foreigners touring the US came to San Francisco at the turn of the 20th century and it probably ranked then with Chicago, Philadelphia and Boston in the second tier below NY.

So I don't think a semi-tropical beach town like Miami has much to compare with. In San Francisco, you need to wear a wet suit to get in the ocean and property on the beach is some of the least expensive in town because it's so cold and foggy. The city is totally oriented toward the enclosed waters of the Bay.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 12:30 AM
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^^^ I guess I should have been more specific. As to what Miami should emulate from SF would be more so the architecture and layout of the Sunset District. May not be the same type of weather there but it’s very dense and relatively new by most American standards. Parts of the Sunset also reminds me of parts of LA. Probably two of the best examples of urban design in the US which doesn’t have the same architecture as the Northeast or Midwest.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 12:40 AM
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Los Angeles:

1. New York City
2. Tokyo / Toronto / Seattle
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  #47  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Detroit looks (up) to Chicago, mostly. Sometimes Toronto.

NYC looks to Paris, London or LA, depending on context. But doesn't look up.
In what way does Paris serve as a model for NYC? I totally understand London and even LA (kinda sorta), but not the French capital. Paris, however amazing and iconic it may be, seems quite stuck in its past--like a much bigger and more important Rome. It feels considerably less dynamic and cosmopolitan than its 'Big Four' counterparts. NYC has the High Line and Hudson Yards; London has the Eye, Shard, and Gherkin. What does Paris have that symbolizes contemporary zeitgeist?
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  #48  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 1:04 AM
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Boston civic leadership frequently "sense-checks" ideas with their San Francisco counterparts, as the Bay Area tends to act a little faster than we do on largely the same issues. It's not so much a "looking up to" as it is a "checking in with a peer who is a bit ahead."

Boston also looks to Baltimore on how to better utilize a big post-industrial East Coast seaport. The Inner Harbor is a model often held up when talking about our emerging Seaport District. So are Rotterdam and Melbourne. IMO Boston should be looking exactly at the Rotterdams and Melbournes and Sydneys of the world - great models to follow in terms of adding (semi)affordable housing to already dense, mature regions with knowledge-based economies seeing continual moderate growth.

Boston definitely does not look up to New York (don't take that to be a negative though - Bostonians by and large like NYC a lot, just not the sports teams); avoiding the "Manhattanization" of Boston is usually first on every politician's bucket list, Dem or Republican.

Providence looks to Boston for almost everything when it comes to "what to do right" and looks to Hartford for almost everything when it comes to "what not to do / what to avoid".

Portland, in turn, looks to Providence as a model. The one in ME, of course.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 1:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Boston definitely does not look up to New York (don't take that to be a negative though - Bostonians by and large like NYC a lot, just not the sports teams); avoiding the "Manhattanization" of Boston is usually first on every politician's bucket list, Dem or Republican.
I know it's just a meme and all, but I find it hard to imagine A, "Manhattanization" NYC given the street layout. Even with more density it would look much more like a lot of the European cities that have similar haphazard layouts, certainly not Manhattan.

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  #50  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 3:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Montreal looks up to New York and Paris. Always has.

And looks to Quebec City condescendingly.

In retrospect it probably should have paid more attention to Toronto.

Since at least 40 years, Montréal :
1) looks up to Toronto. Not even 1 subject can be brought without the conversation going towards what Toronto's doing, or on how Toronto's doing better or worse. It's almost schizophrenic IMO.
2) should look up to Melbourne / Barcelona / Hamburg / Boston...
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  #51  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 3:03 AM
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San Antonio, Texas, definitely can't help but be compared against Austin, especially as that younger city has surpassed the older and larger San Antonio in many metrics within the past decade. The relationship might be akin to an older, poorer, overweight sibling seeing the younger, prettier, smarter, taller, and happier sister now attracting all the popular attention, leaving a complicated mix of both admiration and jealousy as the social position shifts away. Residents might tell themselves that we still have a more historic core and that being wealthier just brings more arrogant coastal yuppies, gentrification, and traffic, but what has really happened are decisions made over many decades embracing diffusive sprawl have diluted and forfeited opportunities such that now those with means, skills, and drive instead relocate north. There will remain fondness for families left behind and nostalgia for fun times in San Antonio, but serious educational, business, and career advancement is by necessity found elsewhere and most conveniently in Austin. San Antonio still hasn't fully looked into the mirror and faced why it has fallen behind its younger sister, but sometimes she peeks into her hot sibling's closet and wonders if she could someday wear the same dresses. The hope now is for San Antonio to somehow piggyback onto Austin's recent success, either through direct commuter rail linkages, a shared regional airports or sports complexes, or urban growth into a twin-city like Dallas-Ft. Worth, but Austin has realized it now no longer needs such hand holding, especially with an urban backwater version of a social wallflower.

Far bigger sisters Dallas and Houston don't quite get that same family love-hate, for they are simply rivals and are never discussed as role models. San Antonio's current size peers in the U.S. are probably Tampa, Orlando, or Cleveland, but its peers and references as a colonial heritage and preservationist city are often cited as New Orleans, Savannah, or Charleston. Mark Twain once equated San Antonio with Boston, New Orleans, and San Francisco for uniqueness on the American grand tour, but the city definitely is no longer in that league.

San Antonio's actual Sister City and Friendship City agreements include Monterrey, Guadalajara, Kumamoto, Suzhou, and most recently Darmstadt. These are all cities either larger or more economically and educationally advanced than San Antonio, and they have much to offer not only in cultural connections and economic opportunities, but in basic urban design and planning. Naturally, however, the dominant international influence comes from Mexico, the city's former mother country. In the Spanish and Mexican colonial eras, Mexico City, Monterrey, and Veracruz were the principal cities to which San Antonio turned, and in a later modern era, the luxury Aztec Eagle still directly connected San Antonio to Mexico City via Monterrey by rail. During the Obama years there was talk of someday rekindling such a link with high-speed rail to Monterrey and eventually to Mexico City, Mexico's top two wealthiest and most urban cities, but that probably won't happen now for a very long time. Laredo may be the nearest border port of entry, but the strength of economic ties saw that NAFTA was ceremonially signed in San Antonio. San Antonio's Riverwalk and river boats actually draw design inspiration directly from Xochimilco and as a curious sign of the historical shift in outlook from south to north after Texas was broken away from Mexico and annexed into the U.S., San Antonio's Spanish colonial plazas shifted from looking like those of Old Mexico into looking like courthouse squares of the Old South, and with modern redesigns they are starting to once again draw inspiration from the famous public squares of current Mexico.

That's a bit of urban planning whiplash: Austin...Mexico City...Austin...Mexico City...
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  #52  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 4:40 AM
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This has got to be the dumbest thread I've read. Someone has too much time on their hands.

Or maybe you're just new to this forum and you haven't made time to understand what this page and website is all about.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 4:44 AM
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Kansas City?? It's been known as the city of Fountains and Boulevards, so maybe it's trying to model itself after Paris. Also, with the famous Country Club Plaza, it's trying to model itself after Seville, Spain.


What it should model itself after?? I don't know. Probably an American city... Minneapolis maybe, Milwaukee?
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  #54  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 5:56 AM
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Pittsburgh looks up to Pittsburgh because most people that live here have never traveled and think that the only thing to aspire to is being the best Steelers or Penguins fan you can possibly be. Its rather depressing.

I think we should look to Columbus, OH for inspiration. I would like for it to become like Philly but it will never be like Philly unfortunately. We could also learn a thing or two transportation wise from Cleveland.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 6:06 AM
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Denver > Seattle
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  #56  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 6:24 AM
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I don’t think Houston looks up to Chicago but when I look at Chicago, I see what Houston wants to be.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 6:40 AM
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I don’t think Houston looks up to Chicago but when I look at Chicago, I see what Houston wants to be.
Didn't you guys get a baby bean?
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  #58  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 6:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
I think Miami looks up to New York ( being known as one of the “sixth boroughs” due to transplants), Chicago ( similar design/ layout and Northern influence like with NYC), and Los Angeles ( southernmost metropolis on the coast, celebrity vibes, car-centric lifestyle, etc).


What Miami should be looking up to since its birth are Havana, Nassau, Singapore, Rio, Sydney, and other close urban tropical/ subtropical cities. Maybe even some of the other cities in the eastern Mediterranean like Beirut and Tel Aviv could have served as good models. But more realistically now, LA, New Orleans, and SF ( to a lesser extent) are good models since they share some architectural and urban layout similarities with the densest parts of Miami like South Beach and Little Havana and are not traditional northern pre war cities like New York, Boston, or Chicago.
I agree with your assessment considering Miami was laid out by Henry Flagler, a New Yorker. I also agree about the Chicago comparison and parts of Little Havana at street level could pass for some neighborhoods in LA too.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 6:54 AM
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Minneapolis used to look up to Seattle but now that we see how it has turned out for them in socio-economic terms nobody wants to follow them down that road. Culturally it wants to have the funky vibe of Portland ten or fifteen years ago but is a little bit too uptight to pull it off. It also keeps an eye on Denver, but as a peer, not in the sense that it wants to copy anything from it. Minneapolis is in the Midwest, and of the Midwest, but most of the cities it really cares about are in the west.

I think the Minneapolis 2040 plan came from a realization that no city in the US has a good development model that keeps cities both dynamic and affordable, so we need to figure this out on our own.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2019, 7:10 AM
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Didn't you guys get a baby bean?
The bullet...it was designed by the same artist.
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