The next GVRD rapid transit line?

[SpongeG]

wow we really need to baby transit riders here

most city systems involve transfers etc.

some of the transfers in London are a good 5 minute walk between lines and you have to change levels etc etc

[mr.x]

awesome map Nutterbug. i love the orange line.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

Why not? I'm sure the people will eventually get used to it.

I completely disagree with this statement. Plannes of an urban modern network must keep in mind the easiness of a metro for commuters and tourists. "eventually people get used to it" is very naive. Talking about hte easiness of our SkyTrain system, I would only give a 6/10 because:

A) Trains going to different destinations
B) Inconsistant signage (expo vs. millennium)
C) Missing signage (Commerical Drive)
D) Bad Messages that do not explain Transfers (they could say something like, "The next station is Broadway. Connecting Commercial Drive Station SkyTrain Millennium Line and the 99-B Line).

If we were to add the orange line in that form, it will just make the network even more confusing... =S

Now my line is different from Nutterbug's approach. From the many studies TransLink has done, most of the commuters in the South of Fraser travel within the region. Thus, my line allows passengers from Guilford Town Centre (large bus hub in the future?) travelling to other parts of Surrey such as the Newton without having to make a transfer.

But otherwise, I would prefer Nutterbug's approach as it would look really nice on the map =)

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by deasine

I completely disagree with this statement. Plannes of an urban modern network must keep in mind the easiness of a metro for commuters and tourists. "eventually people get used to it" is very naive. Talking about hte easiness of our SkyTrain system, I would only give a 6/10 because:

A) Trains going to different destinations
B) Inconsistant signage (expo vs. millennium)
C) Missing signage (Commerical Drive)
D) Bad Messages that do not explain Transfers (they could say something like, "The next station is Broadway. Connecting Commercial Drive Station SkyTrain Millennium Line and the 99-B Line).

If we were to add the orange line in that form, it will just make the network even more confusing... =S

Is it really hard to remember which platform to stand on to catch a train to which destination?

If it's still a problem, and if backing in and out will be too much of a complication and time waster, then skip Columbia Stn. and have it join the M-Line at a new station near the old Woodlands site (where there's a long stretch without a station till Sapperton anyways).

Originally Posted by deasine

Now my line is different from Nutterbug's approach. From the many studies TransLink has done, most of the commuters in the South of Fraser travel within the region. Thus, my line allows passengers from Guilford Town Centre (large bus hub in the future?) travelling to other parts of Surrey such as the Newton without having to make a transfer.

Alleviating traffic on the bridges is also a priority, no?

[twoNeurons]

Tis true, but in reality, the way the system is set up right now, it just wouldn't work well. First of all can you imagine someone getting on at Columbia station with the first train going to Coquitlam, the next one going to Surrey Guildford, the next one going to Commercial Drive and the next one going to Surrey King George?

They would be better to built another platform or another line. Built it to go across the supposed allowance on the Port Mann for Transit to Coquitlam if you want a one-seat right... and serve POCO while you're at it.

Observe this Crude Map...

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by tintinium

Tis true, but in reality, the way the system is set up right now, it just wouldn't work well. First of all can you imagine someone getting on at Columbia station with the first train going to Coquitlam, the next one going to Surrey Guildford, the next one going to Commercial Drive and the next one going to Surrey King George?

They would be better to built another platform or another line. Built it to go across the supposed allowance on the Port Mann for Transit to Coquitlam if you want a one-seat right... and serve POCO while you're at it.

Observe this Crude Map...

BRAVO!! Clever idea. I've never thought about the looping of Evergreen Line v via Port Mann to Guildford/Surrey Central. Your proposal for the Evergreen Line looks like the shape of an ear.

Please send this idea to Malcolm Brodie to see what he thinks about this. Another good rationale for Evergreen Line to be Skytrain (good connectivity and integration with the Skytrain network connecting Coq and Surrey)

[twoNeurons]

Doesn't necessarily need to be Skytrain though. If the PMC is LRT, then an LRT extension would make a lot of sense, as a LOT of the route could follow ROWs without crossings... and it would T-Junction at Surrey Central.

No one's going to travel downtown from Surrey via PoCo so it would be rare that people would need to transfer... as much of the traffic would be between Coquitlam Poco and Surrey.

A person wouldn't take the "EAR" line to SFU for example... and if Coquitlamite wanted to go to anywhere in Surrey or White Rock it's 0 or 1 transfers, which there might be anyway if it were skytrain.

While you're at it, you'd have to run commuter rail out to Langley... to appease the rest of Metro Vancouver.

[officedweller]

I like the ear line - it is also independent of capacity on the Expo Line.

Since both the Guilford Line and the Evergreen Line are currently expected to be LRT - I don't see why it can't be LRT as it would make the Evergreen Line less of an orphan, create a network and could eventually link Pitt Meadow/Maple Ridge to Surrey Centre more directly than going through Port Moody - which serves the original intent of the "T-Line" in the Livable Region Strategic Plan.

I also think the Expo Line jog to Surrey Memorial Hospital makes sense, as there seems to be an open ROW in place.

[SpongeG]

how about a line that branches off to Guidlford and than over to Pitt meadows and back west to Coquitlam centre to hook up with the evergreen line and than the other branch goes to newton etc and over into langley township

[officedweller]

That's a bit circuitous and ignores the LRT convertability of the twinned Port Mann.

Ultimately, LRT systems with radial nodes at:
@ Coquitlam Town Centre (branches to Lougheed Town Cntre/Port Moody, to Pitt Meadows/Maple Ridge and to Burke Mountain); and
@ Surrey City Centre (with braches to Newton and to Guildford)
- linked by one line that crosses the Port Mann - would be best.
They could also share a maintenance yard.

Nice aerial of the area from 2004:

[G-Man]

I voted for the Tsawwassen Ferries, because well you asked what I wanted and that line would do the most for Victoria so there!

[deasine]

Nutterbug, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your version of the orange line is bad. Any expansion to our SkyTrain network is a good thing =)

I wouldn't mind the Evergreen Line if it will connect to Surrey...

Now good news regarding 'easiness' of our SkyTrain system. Either today or VERY RECENTLY, they have updated the SkyTrain system's computer narrator. At Broadway Station, it will say "The next station is, Broadway. Transfer point to the Millennium line" and at Commercial Drive Station, it will say "The next station is, Commercial Drive. Transfer point to the Expo line. Passengers to Downtown Vancouver, please change." I'm not sure about Waterfront and Columbia yet. Hopefully they will also say the entire station name soon, like "Stadium - Chinatown", etc. etc.

Edit: They are still updating some SkyTrains...

[Bert]

Originally Posted by tintinium

Doesn't necessarily need to be Skytrain though. If the PMC is LRT, then an LRT extension would make a lot of sense, as a LOT of the route could follow ROWs without crossings... and it would T-Junction at Surrey Central.

No one's going to travel downtown from Surrey via PoCo so it would be rare that people would need to transfer... as much of the traffic would be between Coquitlam Poco and Surrey.

A person wouldn't take the "EAR" line to SFU for example... and if Coquitlamite wanted to go to anywhere in Surrey or White Rock it's 0 or 1 transfers, which there might be anyway if it were skytrain.

While you're at it, you'd have to run commuter rail out to Langley... to appease the rest of Metro Vancouver.

Of all the routes so far, I like this ear line the best. But I wouldn't rule out Skytrain technology for it (I know you're not saying that). It would save a ten minute transfer for people going from Coquitlam to Vancouver as well as for people going from Vancouver toward Guildford if the Expo line were to split at Surrey Central.

What did you use to draw on the Google map, by the way? (EDIT: nevermind... I see it now: create a new map under the "My Maps" tab of Google Maps)

As for people worrying about complicated routes, I bet Translink could solve it for $20 million or so. They just need to install more TVs at each station (shared cost with the advertising company) and make some software so when the train announcement comes up, the screen highlights the route that the arriving train will be taking.

[deasine]

^Well they are planning to install TVs, not necessarly on the platforms though...

I just figured if the orange line goes to columbia, then to Coquitlam, it may slow the freqeuncy of trains unless it goes to another platform.

I swear messages on the SkyTrain have to be louder. And there should be some on the platforms annoucing the train entering the station, just like the MTR. Something like at Columbia, "The train to King George is now arriving. Passengers going to Surrey, please take this train."

I've been talking too much lately =S

[clooless]

Originally Posted by deasine

^Well they are planning to install TVs, not necessarly on the platforms though...

I just figured if the orange line goes to columbia, then to Coquitlam, it may slow the freqeuncy of trains unless it goes to another platform.

I swear messages on the SkyTrain have to be louder. And there should be some on the platforms annoucing the train entering the station, just like the MTR. Something like at Columbia, "The train to King George is now arriving. Passengers going to Surrey, please take this train."

I've been talking too much lately =S

If you think the Skytain announcements are inaudible you should hear the quality of the station announcements here on Calgary's C-Train; they're absolutely pathetic. One must have superhearing to understand the garbled mess that comes out of the speakers, if they're announced at all.

While the Skytrain announcements could be a touch louder, they're at least audible.

[fever]

I too like the Ear Line. I've cut it into two in this map, which includes pretty much anything that might be possible

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF...&t=k&z=10&om=1


One thing that I think Translink could do to make the Expo and M Lines more understandable is to choose one name for Commercial-Broadway. Having two names for the same station is confusing. Instead, the two lines could share a station name, like East Van Station or anything not a street name, and the platforms could be named after the cross street on the line.

[SpongeG]

there are two stations at broadway and commercial -how do you figure there is only one?

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by officedweller

That's a bit circuitous and ignores the LRT convertability of the twinned Port Mann.

Ultimately, LRT systems with radial nodes at:
@ Coquitlam Town Centre (branches to Lougheed Town Cntre/Port Moody, to Pitt Meadows/Maple Ridge and to Burke Mountain); and
@ Surrey City Centre (with braches to Newton and to Guildford)
- linked by one line that crosses the Port Mann - would be best.
They could also share a maintenance yard.

Nice aerial of the area from 2004:

thats sort of the point - a circular type line serving coquitlam and surrey - it would help cut down on traffic as there are a lot of people who only commute between the two areas and never even need to go into vancouver

[officedweller]

I meant that routing it across Port Mann is more direct between Coquitlam and Surrey than having all passengers pass through Pitt Meadows and Barnston Island (btw that's not Barnston in the pic, Barnston is further east). The travel time would be longer for everyone by doing your s-curve. Feeder lines would better reach the fringes.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

there are two stations at broadway and commercial -how do you figure there is only one?

In other cities, a transfer station usually only carries one name, even if the platforms are far apart. (i.e. Spadina Station in Toronto)
- and even Waterfront Station on the Canada Line and the Expo Line will have the same name - despite similar walking distances from the platforms and having to exit and re-enter fare paid zones, like Broadway & Commercial.