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  #981  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2017, 5:27 AM
Marshal Marshal is offline
perhaps . . .
 
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Yes, Alex Fraser lanes are fine . . . but Metro has many examples to sample if you like driving on the lines: the worst: Patullo Bridge - of course, oldest and narrowest + a bend; Queensborough Bridge - tighter would be a problem; Oak Street Bridge - same. The lane widths of the downtown bridges are fine, but the lanes themselves keep disappearing.
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  #982  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2017, 4:56 PM
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Some pictures of the International Bridge under construction in Sault Ste. Marie from 1960 to 1962.












View more here: https://www.sootoday.com/great-stori...1960-62-735616
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  #983  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 8:07 PM
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Damn that's cool. Not many big steel bridges like that any more... at least not that I've seen.
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  #984  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 9:24 PM
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  #985  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 9:45 PM
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Design-wise, looks similar to the Trois-Rivières bridge, which was also built in the 1960s.
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  #986  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 12:01 PM
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Champlain update



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  #987  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 1:21 PM
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great shots. finally, some very long overdue bridge replacements for Montreal. Champlain has been moldering most of my lifetime.
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  #988  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 5:54 PM
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Almost seems wasteful to demolish the old one - if it gets closed to heavy traffic (semi trucks), maybe it could be kept as a second bridge with only moderate investments? Quebec's new (edit: 1970s... not actually that new) bridge is the one that gets most of the traffic by far, but the old bridge next to it helps relieve some of that pressure at rush hour.
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  #989  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Almost seems wasteful to demolish the old one - if it gets closed to heavy traffic (semi trucks), maybe it could be kept as a second bridge with only moderate investments? Quebec's new (edit: 1970s... not actually that new) bridge is the one that gets most of the traffic by far, but the old bridge next to it helps relieve some of that pressure at rush hour.
The engineering report "The Future of the Champlain Bridge Crossing" seems to indicate that the existing structure has serious deficiencies that cannot be exactly quantified. The costs of maintaining both the current bridge in the short term and constructing a new one were about equal to the cost of maintaining the existing one for 50 years.

After what happened in Minneapolis with the I-35W bridge in 2007, I'd imagine the federal government is seriously averse to the liability involved with keeping the old bridge, given its condition.
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  #990  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 6:23 PM
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Yeah, but that's because the current volumes of traffic on the Champlain, including tons of commercial trucking, have been way above the predicted original design parameters. It definitely couldn't continue to handle that safely in the long term, so it made more financial sense to build a new bridge. However, the addition of the new bridge, which will be the one getting all the heavy traffic, lowers the bar for the old one.
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  #991  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Yeah, but that's because the current volumes of traffic on the Champlain, including tons of commercial trucking, have been way above the predicted original design parameters. It definitely couldn't continue to handle that safely in the long term, so it made more financial sense to build a new bridge.
The report mentions that the bridge is into its exponential decay curve with respect to its conditions - even decreasing the load on it may not significantly lengthen the bridge's lifespan. While load is an important consideration for lifespan, issues such as corrosion from salt (which is independent of load) play a major factor as well.

There's a bunch of problems they list - girders, piers, crossbeams, quality of the concrete used. It doesn't seem that these are easily addressed. Sad to see it go, but you wouldn't catch me driving across it in 20 years if there was a new bridge next to it, traffic be damned.
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  #992  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 6:47 PM
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There's a bunch of problems they list - girders, piers, crossbeams, quality of the concrete used. It doesn't seem that these are easily addressed.
Again, most of that (what's acceptable structurally or not) is directly tied to the load the bridge has to bear.


Quote:
Sad to see it go, but you wouldn't catch me driving across it in 20 years if there was a new bridge next to it, traffic be damned.
I probably would. I very rarely use the old bridge to cross to Quebec City but the #1 reason for that by far is that it's extremely poorly connected to the freeway network, unlike the newer bridge. I would imagine they'll make sure to avoid that "mistake" if the old Champlain bridge is kept (which isn't in the plans, but you never know).

The big difference of course is that the Champlain currently has the freeway arriving right into it, which the old Quebec bridge obviously never had - so I don't think they could even possibly make that mistake if they tried.
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  #993  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 7:03 PM
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Again, most of that (what's acceptable structurally or not) is directly tied to the load the bridge has to bear.




I probably would. I very rarely use the old bridge to cross to Quebec City but the #1 reason for that by far is that it's extremely poorly connected to the freeway network, unlike the newer bridge. I would imagine they'll make sure to avoid that "mistake" if the old Champlain bridge is kept (which isn't in the plans, but you never know).

The big difference of course is that the Champlain currently has the freeway arriving right into it, which the old Quebec bridge obviously never had - so I don't think they could even possibly make that mistake if they tried.
I've no problems with old bridges in and of themselves. Plenty of old infrastructure works wonderfully well and if the engineering reports indicate that the bridges are in acceptable condition, I'll gladly use them (as you mention, the old Quebec Bridge).

When a structural engineering consulting firm is raising doubts about the condition of the bridge and the long-term viability of it, I grow concerned.

Would I drive across it today? Sure.

Would it be good for 20 years? Maybe - but given the liability of a catastrophic failure, what organization would run that risk? Especially when a publicly released engineering report has casted doubt on it.

I don't think there's much merit to saving it.

Future of the Champlain Bridge Crossing
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  #994  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2017, 1:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Boreal View Post
The Alex Fraser has the narrowest lanes of any spanning structure I have ever crossed. I recall feeling like I had maybe 1/16" on each side of the car. Perhaps the hyperbole is overstated.
They are only going to get narrower, as they will be fitting a new 7th lanes as a counter-flow lane over the bridge. It will be changing direction with a "zipper machine".

Another view of Alex Fraser Bridge.



Also Port Mann Bridge taking commuters above clouds.

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  #995  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2017, 5:12 AM
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Will the 7th lane being going ahead? Haven't heard much about that or the Hwy91-Hwy17 connector redesign.
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  #996  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2018, 7:42 PM
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  #997  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2018, 3:15 AM
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  #998  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2018, 4:04 AM
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The High Level and the new Walterdale are truly fantastic.
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  #999  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2018, 9:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobert View Post
Will the 7th lane being going ahead? Haven't heard much about that or the Hwy91-Hwy17 connector redesign.
Yes I believe it's going ahead. There is a new sign at the bridge saying it will start this spring
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  #1000  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 10:57 PM
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Meanwhile NW Ontarians are still waiting for the new overdue (twinned) Nipigon Bridge...
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