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  #81  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2010, 3:08 PM
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Because I love renderings, I stared at this one for a while trying to figure how well it plays with the ESB, and no harm's done, either version.
I think it's as much a companion to the ESB as the Chrysler...(rendering is slightly condensed so the towes look a little closer)








It's worth noting that a few smaller towers are left out of the rendering, and a large future tower (Penn East) that's been in the 900 to 1200 ft range...



It would appear in this frame, just to the left of 1 Penn Plaza...




The boxy version may be gone, but I still think I'm leaning towards door #2...




Large version of the multi tenant tower...




Large version of the single tenant tower...




Single


Multi






A best case scenario of construction...


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Last edited by NYguy; Feb 10, 2010 at 3:27 PM.
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  #82  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2010, 5:48 PM
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Is this project going ahead?
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  #83  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2010, 5:52 PM
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Is this project going ahead?
If they can get financing, yes. If not, no. Common sense to the rescue.
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  #84  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2010, 6:45 PM
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No one has yet mentioned how similar both proposals are with Goldman Sach's Jersey City Tower:

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  #85  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2010, 6:51 PM
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On Feb. 8, Vornado began the city's land-use review process, the seven-month cavalcade of criticisms, recommendations and demands from residents and officials, which is the most significant public approval needed to demolish the hotel and build a new tower in its place. [u][b][color=blue]The reason for the review's start, according to statements Vornado representatives have made to government officials and others, is not because demolition of the Hotel Pennsylvania is imminent. Rather, the firm wants to be ready to pull the trigger should it ever find another tenant, saving itself the uncertainty and time requirements that come with public approval.
I try to remain optimistic about NY projects... but I'm not getting my hopes up too much, as this has to go through the same bureaucratic public review (ULURP) as the Tower Verre. I wouldn't be surprised if its approved with a dramatically lower height.

Regardless, I really like the design however, and have my fingers crossed that it will get approved!!
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  #86  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2010, 7:04 PM
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I’ve been waiting for news on this one to pick up. Of course the design is fantastic and it’s self evident how great it would look in the skyline. As previously mentioned this one has quite a ways to go, but I’m optimistic to the fact that Vornado will get things done. They seem pretty driven to see this one through, and that’s been from the start.
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  #87  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2010, 10:58 PM
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No one has yet mentioned how similar both proposals are with Goldman Sach's Jersey City Tower:
Well it is the same architect...
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  #88  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2010, 11:41 PM
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This building is amazing, it looks great next to ESB. But Im sure the NIMBY's will kill this one and if not the height will probably be reduced to like 700ft. I swear, people living in NYC just want the skyline to stall and remain like it was in the 40's. Its a city people, things change.
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  #89  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2010, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by photolitherland View Post
This building is amazing, it looks great next to ESB. But Im sure the NIMBY's will kill this one and if not the height will probably be reduced to like 700ft. I swear, people living in NYC just want the skyline to stall and remain like it was in the 40's. Its a city people, things change.

Sometimes I wonder, is it actually possible to build 1000 foot buildings in NY? They might as well just make a law saying their can't be instead of teasing us. I can't stand all the tease projects in NY... Either make a height limit or stop bitching about high buildings, seriously.


I know I'm gonna piss a lot of people off by saying this but a tower this size won't be allowed, we've already seen this scenario many times and it always ends up the same way. I'm not trying to be a downer, just a little slice of realism for everyone.

And if it does actually get built, that little teeny chance, that's great and thank god.
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  #90  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2010, 1:13 AM
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^There kinda are heightlimits already in NYC, in this case it's 581' as seen in the as-of-right render. That anything taller/bigger than as-of-right gets built in NYC says that the limits aren't absolute though. Which IMO is a good thing, but I'd rather the as-of-right envelope was made bigger.


I like the design of both the singletenant and the multitenant versions, the singeltenant one looking slighty better with the wall on the 7th av side going all the way to the top. Otoh I prefer the multitenant one because it is taller and has more retail (perfect location for that right next to Penn).

A design question: are the gashes on the sides based on straight lines from [whatever floor it starts on] to the edge of the roof? Looks like it to me.
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  #91  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2010, 1:21 AM
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There are no height limits in New York outside of historical districts. There are envelope limits, and because this building exceeds the envelope limits, it will need a zoning variance in order to be built. Because Vornado, the company behind this, has more money than God, getting a zoning variance shouldn't be an issue.
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  #92  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2010, 1:36 AM
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Ah, but that's what I ment. The envelope limits and variance possibilities makes for (varied) height limits that can be over-ruled with realative ease (relative to most other height limits). My point is that one is not allowed to just build however tall one wants too.
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  #93  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2010, 1:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
I know I'm gonna piss a lot of people off by saying this but a tower this size won't be allowed, we've already seen this scenario many times and it always ends up the same way. I'm not trying to be a downer, just a little slice of realism for everyone.
This isn't really true.

The NIMBY complaints are always in areas with residents, especially rich residents.

This neighborhood has no residents whatsoever (rich or otherwise) so is not likely to see too many NIMBY complaints.

In fully commercial neighborhoods, there usually isn't tremendous opposition to very tall buildings, and they are usually approved (yes, there is always some complaining, but not enough to affect the project).

I fully expect this tower to be built as-is, and relatively soon. It it wasn't for the global economic collapse, it would probably already be rising.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned on this thread, but Merrill Lynch signed a tenative agreement to anchor this tower back in late 2007. They wanted the full 3 million square feet. They backed out when the recession arrived.

Oh, and this tower would bring huge benefits to the City. Vornado is offering to basically rebuild the subway pedestrian tunnels that connect the Times Square station all the way down to Penn Station, and then east almost all the way to Fifth Avenue.

These tunnels were sealed off in the 1970's, due to the city's economic crisis.
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  #94  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2010, 2:00 AM
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Well it is the same architect...
It doesn't matter if it is the same architect. If it is the same architect then he isn't doing his job well.
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  #95  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2010, 2:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Sometimes I wonder, is it actually possible to build 1000 foot buildings in NY? They might as well just make a law saying their can't be instead of teasing us. I can't stand all the tease projects in NY... Either make a height limit or stop bitching about high buildings, seriously.


I know I'm gonna piss a lot of people off by saying this but a tower this size won't be allowed, we've already seen this scenario many times and it always ends up the same way. I'm not trying to be a downer, just a little slice of realism for everyone.

And if it does actually get built, that little teeny chance, that's great and thank god.
Approved and U/C buildings over 1000 feet in NYC:
Tour de Verre
Manhattan West development
World Product Center
Extell's 2 developments by the park
Girasole
Tower across the street from Girasole
80 South Street
WTC
A bunch in Hudson Yards
And the NY Times tower was built only a few years ago at over 1000 feet

Plus there are many more approved or U/C 800+ foot towers.

We're all sad about 200 feet getting lopped off the Tour de Verre, but there's no reason to start bad-mouthing all NY development because a few isolated incidents. There will always be people fighting against slightly darker streets and castrated views, but they don't always (rarely) win.

And anyways, this tower is not in a relatively high population area, so this one should face little opposition. The only possible issue is people who want to preserve the old Pennsylvania Hotel, but it's such a terrible hotel that it will be almost impossible to defend.

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Originally Posted by evanmack View Post
It doesn't matter if it is the same architect. If it is the same architect then he isn't doing his job well.

They look nothing alike other than the fact that they use (completely different colored) glass. What do you mean by this?
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  #96  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2010, 2:56 AM
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I fully expect this tower to be built as-is, and relatively soon. It it wasn't for the global economic collapse, it would probably already be rising.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned on this thread, but Merrill Lynch signed a tenative agreement to anchor this tower back in late 2007. They wanted the full 3 million square feet. They backed out when the recession arrived.

Oh, and this tower would bring huge benefits to the City. Vornado is offering to basically rebuild the subway pedestrian tunnels that connect the Times Square station all the way down to Penn Station, and then east almost all the way to Fifth Avenue.

These tunnels were sealed off in the 1970's, due to the city's economic crisis.

And the version they were planning for Merrill was approaching 4 msf, which is why Silverstein was also increasing his Tower 3 at the WTC. The approval for this tower is similar to the Tower Verre in process only, meaning it has to go through the 7 month approval process. Because Vornado also owns the Manhattan Mall (and a lot of other property in the immediate area) they are seeking a zoning change on both sites that would give the project an extra 270,000 sf. They are also seeking a zoning change that would allow for that podium/base, which doesn't meet the streetwall guidelines. At last check, the podium was lower that what was required.

But the biggest bonus would come from the multiple transit improvments, almost a half million sqare feet (474,000). This ties directly into the city's plans for the Moynihan Station redevelopment. Further, it's where the city is encouraging large commercial towers, creating a modern office district around the country's busiest transit center. It's why you already have as-of-right towers like the 1,200 ft Manhattan West tower planned just a couple of blocks away.

_


But this tower gets the jump on those other towers because there is no expensive platform to build here. Also, this is a relatively small office tower, as far as the giants go in New York.

The 1,190 ft single tenant tower has only about 1.5 msf of office space. (Single here doesn't mean the tenant will take all of the space. Overall, it will be about 2.82 msf, including about 334,880 msf of "amenity" space, probably hotel).

The 1,216 ft multi tenant tower has about 1.9 msf of office space, but although taller, it's a slightly smaller tower of 2.66 msf. That would include about 361,711 sf of retail space that would replace the trading floors of the single tenant tower.

Add to the fact that there is no major new office space coming under constuction in Midtown, and this immediately becomes site number one, if it wasn't already. And although this tower competed directly at one time with the WTC, basically there are tenants who would never move Downtown anyway.

So in short, there are no major concerns here as far as the approval process goes. The noisy battle ahead will come from the Hotel Penn advocates, who have already been butting heads with the LPC and the CPC, with little success.


As I mentioned earlier, the city is pushing for the redevelopment of the area, but it's the developers who have to get it done...

Quote:
http://www.observer.com/2008/city-pu...ynihan-station

City Pushes for Warren of Walkways Under and Around Moynihan Station

By Eliot Brown
March 11, 2008

The improvements the city is considering, the cost of which may be borne by private developers and landowners, include a reopening of the so-called “Gimbel’s passageway,” a tunnel that would connect Penn Station to Herald Square and the N, R, Q, and W subway lines on Sixth Avenue; a possible walkway along 33rd Street in a below-grade moat-like space on the northern edge of the Farley Post Office; and improving subway stations in the area.

Members from two community boards, among other attendees, were briefed recently by the Department of City Planning on the planned improvements being considered, which are preliminary and would be part of a zoning change connected with the Moynihan Station project. The planning department, led by director Amanda Burden, has previously expressed the desire for pedestrian improvements in the area, as have community and civic groups such as the Municipal Art Society.

The tunnels and other pedestrian improvements would likely be paid for by some of the developers and landowners building in the area.

Given the extraordinary amount of development rights associated with the project, the buildings could be very large—attendees to the meetings with the Planning Department said they were told a building of 1,100 or 1,200 feet could rise on the east end of the Vornado Realty Trust-owned block just north of Penn Station, between 33rd and 34th streets. That would be 100 or so feet shorter than the Empire State Building.
We're really just getting warmed up with what will be developed in the area.
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  #97  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2010, 2:47 PM
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  #98  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2010, 7:28 PM
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That is one tall lobby. Looks like the ceiling is at least 10 m high!
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  #99  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2010, 7:37 PM
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Ahh this building is so sexy lol
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  #100  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2010, 9:20 PM
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That is one tall lobby. Looks like the ceiling is at least 10 m high!
Meh, it's standard midtown fare. The NYTimes and BofA each have equal or taller lobbies.
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