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  #1621  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 1:36 AM
skyscraperpage17 skyscraperpage17 is offline
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Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
Your post makes it seem like Amazon has chosen this site and the developer is pursuing entitlements on their behalf.
Not at all.

EDIT: But what I will say is companies do have a tendency to act in the way you described anonymously. Similar things could be happening in other places. After all, let's not pretend Amazon (whose CEO brags about planning his next move 4 years in advance) wasn't already strongly considering certain cities / sites for HQ2 before this whole RFP stuff began.

Last edited by skyscraperpage17; Dec 12, 2017 at 2:27 AM.
     
     
  #1622  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 2:06 AM
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While I think Chicago and Philadelphia are top candidates, these are the reasons I feel Dallas and especially Atlanta have the edge:

1. Georgia and Atlanta has a history of selling the farm in order to land corporate expansions / relocations, and they certainly have the ability to do so for Amazon (they're amongst the most fiscally healthy states in the country based on their credit rating). Amazon did emphasize this would be an important factor in their decision. I'm still just not sure if Chicago's incentive package is generous enough to tip the scales, given the scale of this investment (even Foxconn, a much smaller investment, was given $3 billion by Wisconsin.

2. For Dallas, its close proximity to Austin would give Amazon the easy access it requested to the tech talent it desires.

3. Amazon did emphasize preference for a location that is business-friendly. In other words, I imagine they want a place where they're not a small fish in a big pond (which they would be in Chicago especially). Georgia and Texas are places that will bend over backwards for whatever Amazon wants. Frankly, Pennsylvania and Illinois especially also don't have a very good history of being particularly business-friendly. The corporations who have invested in these states have done so in spite of their lack of business-friendliness.

4. Several reports have suggested they're looking for a environment that's completely opposite from Seattle and where they can attract employees who desire a slower and even suburban lifestyle. While Chicago and Philadelphia are different from Seattle to an extent, you don't get much more opposite from Seattle than Dallas and especially Atlanta.

5. I imagine Amazon would desire an HQ in the eastern time zone as a counter to the western time zone HQ. If that's the case, it would rule out Chicago and Dallas.

6. For logistical and budgetary reasons, I think they would prefer a city that's also a Delta Hub like Seattle (so basically, Detroit, Boston or Atlanta) instead of having to coordinate flights and pricing between two or more different airlines
     
     
  #1623  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 2:47 AM
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If Dallas or Atlanta get it I'm going to vomit.

Just about any other city I won't mind.
     
     
  #1624  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 3:49 AM
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Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007 View Post
If Dallas or Atlanta get it I'm going to vomit.

Just about any other city I won't mind.
Why? What is it about Atlanta? I don't know if you've spent much time in Atlanta, but the city is basically similar in vibrancy and feel to Minneapolis, or Denver, or....Seattle. Just with different demographics/culture.

If you feel this way about Atlanta because it has an image of business-growth-success, well that's partially true but largely Atlanta's civic-propaganda machine, which is matched only by Chicago and New York. The reality is that the city has a lot of urban-grit to go with the growth. Which makes it far more interesting than you might expect. More street art in Atlanta than all but a couple U.S. cities.

The main area where Atlanta wants to put Amazon is the gulch - an area similar in feel to downtown Detroit or Philly, with better transit access than anywhere in the midwest outside Chicago.

Still though, I haven't changed my tune. I expect Texas to win this - either Austin, or Dallas, or a combination of both.
     
     
  #1625  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 3:53 AM
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Having Atlanta or Dallas get something like this is kinda like watching the Yankees win the World Series. Makes me want to barf.
     
     
  #1626  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 3:59 AM
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If this went to the suburbs of any city, it wound be a missed opportunity... But if it ends up going in downtown Atlanta, it might be the best single event to happen to the place in decades, and would serve to change the place immensely. Probably moreso than any other similarly sized city other than Detroit.
     
     
  #1627  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 4:02 AM
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Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007 View Post
Having Atlanta or Dallas get something like this is kinda like watching the Yankees win the World Series. Makes me want to barf.
Meh. We've won some and we've lost some (BellSouth, scientific Atlanta, the slow trickle of Turner/CNN to New York)
     
     
  #1628  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 9:28 AM
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Originally Posted by cabasse View Post
If this went to the suburbs of any city, it wound be a missed opportunity... But if it ends up going in downtown Atlanta, it might be the best single event to happen to the place in decades, and would serve to change the place immensely. Probably moreso than any other similarly sized city other than Detroit.
Atlanta as a whole is doing just fine, and it will without Amazon. The same goes for Chicago and Philadelphia for that matter. If any city *NEEDS* Amazon to kick start a ton of growth and investment, it's Detroit.

But getting beyond the actual qualifications and preferences Amazon detailed, the main reason I want HQ2 to happen in the Gulch is to help put a stop to the lopsided sprawl that's gone disproportionately northward. If Amazon landed in South Downtown, the significantly underdeveloped southern (especially SW) parts of the city/metro would seem a lot more attractive to developers and employers instead of places way out in Cumming.
     
     
  #1629  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 9:50 AM
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Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
Isn't Amazon looking for 500k SF of space immediately?
Atlanta has Bank of America Plaza and the (soon to be mostly empty) AT&T Building, to name a couple places, that meet this requirement.

As stated before, this requirement will not be hard to meet for any decent-size city.
     
     
  #1630  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Omaharocks View Post

The main area where Atlanta wants to put Amazon is the gulch - an area similar in feel to downtown Detroit or Philly
Which is it? Downtown Detroit and downtown Philly are very, very different places.
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  #1631  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 1:06 PM
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Which is it? Downtown Detroit and downtown Philly are very, very different places.
It's neither. Downtown Atlanta feels nothing like either city. It's more vibrant than Downtown Detroit, especially when there's a large conference, but is nowhere near the urban experience of Center City Philadelphia.
     
     
  #1632  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 3:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy View Post
It's neither. Downtown Atlanta feels nothing like either city. It's more vibrant than Downtown Detroit, especially when there's a large conference, but is nowhere near the urban experience of Center City Philadelphia.
I don't know how familiar you are with Detroit, but downtown Detroit has livened up considerably in recent years. Downtown Detroit isn't bustling with activity, but it has all the parts and pieces to transform back into what it was. It has more potential in that sense than Atlanta IMO.
     
     
  #1633  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 3:32 PM
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Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17 View Post
While I think Chicago and Philadelphia are top candidates, these are the reasons I feel Dallas and especially Atlanta have the edge:

...

2. For Dallas, its close proximity to Austin would give Amazon the easy access it requested to the tech talent it desires.

...

4. Several reports have suggested they're looking for a environment that's completely opposite from Seattle and where they can attract employees who desire a slower and even suburban lifestyle. While Chicago and Philadelphia are different from Seattle to an extent, you don't get much more opposite from Seattle than Dallas and especially Atlanta.

...

6. For logistical and budgetary reasons, I think they would prefer a city that's also a Delta Hub like Seattle (so basically, Detroit, Boston or Atlanta) instead of having to coordinate flights and pricing between two or more different airlines
A lot of assumptions here. Not saying they are ultimately wrong, but they are not solid assumptions on which to base things, because, as we all know, none of us knows anything.

1. There have been discussions on this forum specifically about talent, and the kinds of talent Amazon might be looking for. People are somehow assuming that they are looking to staff an HQ with 50,000 software engineers and programmers. Nowhere did they say that. Their business is much more diverse and complex than that...An HQ for a company like Amazon would require them to staff up with lawyers and financial people and media buyers and communications teams and government relations, etc. etc. It is not unreasonable to think that a MUCH smaller number of that 50,000, the minority, even, are traditional tech programming or engineering roles.

2. What reports have said that they are looking for a location that is vastly different from Seattle? If there are reports, they seem quite contradictory to the RFP, which seems to imply that Amazon is looking for a lot of exactly THE SAME things they have in Seattle (urban experience, transit, etc.), only more of it and better.

3. I don't know what airlines have Amazon contracts, but from Seattle, let's also remember that the largest airline at SEA (by FAR) is not Delta but Alaska. It is also quite common for companies to negotiate multiple contracts with multiple airlines, based on different employee flight patterns and places around the world where they do business, or outsource that function to a large corporate travel agency that negotiates rates at scale on behalf of multiple large companies together. The consideration that ATL is a Delta hub is probably a non-issue.
     
     
  #1634  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 4:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DMPHL View Post
...

3. I don't know what airlines have Amazon contracts, but from Seattle, let's also remember that the largest airline at SEA (by FAR) is not Delta but Alaska. It is also quite common for companies to negotiate multiple contracts with multiple airlines, based on different employee flight patterns and places around the world where they do business, or outsource that function to a large corporate travel agency that negotiates rates at scale on behalf of multiple large companies together. The consideration that ATL is a Delta hub is probably a non-issue.
When they flew me from Chicago to Seattle, they put me on United.
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  #1635  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 4:11 PM
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When they flew me from Chicago to Seattle, they put me on United.
That's because you originated from Chicago.
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  #1636  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
That's because you originated from Chicago.
It's also a bit cheaper than American these days, at least based on what I've seen, because it currently has an older and inferior fleet. The latter mostly applies to their Transatlantic routes, but I've also seen cheaper connections through Chicago on United than on AA recently.
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  #1637  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 4:25 PM
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because it currently has an older and inferior fleet.
at least united doesn't have any dinosaur MD-80s in its fleet like american and delta do (though american's are finally all scheduled to be retired by the end of 2019).
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  #1638  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 5:43 PM
skyscraperpage17 skyscraperpage17 is offline
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Originally Posted by DMPHL View Post
A lot of assumptions here. Not saying they are ultimately wrong, but they are not solid assumptions on which to base things, because, as we all know, none of us knows anything.

1. There have been discussions on this forum specifically about talent, and the kinds of talent Amazon might be looking for. People are somehow assuming that they are looking to staff an HQ with 50,000 software engineers and programmers. Nowhere did they say that. Their business is much more diverse and complex than that...An HQ for a company like Amazon would require them to staff up with lawyers and financial people and media buyers and communications teams and government relations, etc. etc. It is not unreasonable to think that a MUCH smaller number of that 50,000, the minority, even, are traditional tech programming or engineering roles.

2. What reports have said that they are looking for a location that is vastly different from Seattle? If there are reports, they seem quite contradictory to the RFP, which seems to imply that Amazon is looking for a lot of exactly THE SAME things they have in Seattle (urban experience, transit, etc.), only more of it and better.

3. I don't know what airlines have Amazon contracts, but from Seattle, let's also remember that the largest airline at SEA (by FAR) is not Delta but Alaska. It is also quite common for companies to negotiate multiple contracts with multiple airlines, based on different employee flight patterns and places around the world where they do business, or outsource that function to a large corporate travel agency that negotiates rates at scale on behalf of multiple large companies together. The consideration that ATL is a Delta hub is probably a non-issue.
We're all just speculating, including those who think (for whatever reason) that Chicago or Philadelphia have the edge.

RE: #1 The RFP specifically stated "strong technical talent." Technical talent is generally defined as those who specialize in the STEM fields.

RE #2 I'm on my phone now, so I don't have access to the links. But there was recently an article that featured comments from one of the executives, Jeff Wilke (sp) who stated they're looking for a location different from the Pacific NW to attract a different employee. Again, It doesn't get much more different from Seattle than Atlanta or Dallas.

There was also a Bloomberg article where some Amazon insiders leaked out that the reason they started the whole RFP thing is because there was disagreement on a location. While the executives liked Boston, the employees wanted an environment where they can actually afford a decent suburban living without having to constantly deal with a fast paced environment. Bloomberg could be wrong, but it's pretty credible source and I'm sure there's some truth to that article.

BTW, both Atlanta and Dallas offer decent urban living these days with the amenities that Amazon desires. This is not 1997, they're completely different cities today.

RE #3 Yes, that is pure speculation on my part. Businesses do like to keep things simple and avoid duplicating things if possible. If they just can negotiate a bigger volume based discount with one airline (versus having to deal with a bunch of different airlines), it may be a plus.

BTW, I could be wrong, but I don't think Alaska Airlines has the flight frequency that Delta has nor the international connections Delta has (although they may go to more domestic locations).
     
     
  #1639  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 6:02 PM
IrishIllini IrishIllini is offline
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Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17 View Post
We're all just speculating, including those who think (for whatever reason) that Chicago or Philadelphia have the edge.

RE: #1 The RFP specifically stated "strong technical talent." Technical talent is generally defined as those who specialize in the STEM fields.

RE #2 I'm on my phone now, so I don't have access to the links. But there was recently an article that featured comments from one of the executives, Jeff Wilke (sp) who stated they're looking for a location different from the Pacific NW to attract a different employee. Again, It doesn't get much more different from Seattle than Atlanta or Dallas.

There was also a Bloomberg article where some Amazon insiders leaked out that the reason they started the whole RFP thing is because there was disagreement on a location. While the executives liked Boston, the employees wanted an environment where they can actually afford a decent suburban living without having to constantly deal with a fast paced environment. Bloomberg could be wrong, but it's pretty credible source and I'm sure there's some truth to that article.

BTW, both Atlanta and Dallas offer decent urban living these days with the amenities that Amazon desires. This is not 1997, they're completely different cities today.

RE #3 Yes, that is pure speculation on my part. Businesses do like to keep things simple and avoid duplicating things if possible. If they just can negotiate a bigger volume based discount with one airline (versus having to deal with a bunch of different airlines), it may be a plus.

BTW, I could be wrong, but I don't think Alaska Airlines has the flight frequency that Delta has nor the international connections Delta has (although they may go to more domestic locations).
There is nothing in the RFP that suggests a sprawling metro would work for Amazon. They explicitly stated transit is a priority. If anything, places like Chicago and Philadelphia are better choices in this aspect as you can choose between both a true urban and suburban experience. Atlanta and Dallas only offer one.
     
     
  #1640  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 6:18 PM
skyscraperpage17 skyscraperpage17 is offline
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There is nothing in the RFP that suggests a sprawling metro would work for Amazon.
No one knows for sure if it will or won't. That's not the point.

BTW, Chicago's is pretty sprawly itself (although it may be more urban in some parts than other cities).

Quote:
They explicitly stated transit is a priority. If anything, places like Chicago and Philadelphia are better choices in this aspect as you can choose between both a true urban and suburban experience. Atlanta and Dallas only offer one.
So you don't know what you're talking about in this part of your post, with all due respect. You obviously haven't spent a decent amount of time in Atlanta or Dallas recently to reach your incorrect conclusion of both cities.

Bearing in mind Seattle's transit system in comparison, I'm quite sure any city with transit just as good would be sufficient for Amazon. Both Atlanta and Dallas fall into the category of " at least just as good."
     
     
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