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  #141  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2011, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Sound like you expect too much. This is NY. You should be familiar with the NY developer MO by now. If you want Asia, you should just go there. Stop wishing for Asia on Hudson. You should be happy NY is getting anything at all after the economy nearly collapsed. NY builds for practicality, especially in office development. NY builds to maximize profits not to innovate, make statements, or improve the quality of design in the city. That only rarely occurs. Only a fool would expect more from the majority of NY developers, especially Related.
i didnt expect much, i just expected more then boxes.
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  #142  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2011, 10:32 PM
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Really? From all the renders i've seen, boxes were always portrayed by related.

I never expected anything more. This is a new risky area and they are going to be, i expect, more conservative moving into a new frontier. The railyards also require expensive platform. Think about how that impacts the design budget.

All in all, I'll be happy if the materials are good and that it isn't just a simple box.
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  #143  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2011, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Really? From all the renders i've seen, boxes were always portrayed by related.

I never expected anything more. This is a new risky area and they are going to be, i expect, more conservative moving into a new frontier. The railyards also require expensive platform. Think about how that impacts the design budget.

All in all, I'll be happy if the materials are good and that it isn't just a simple box.
i know what your saying and i agree with you 100% but as a big fan of progressive architecture i would have just liked to have seen something a little more "out there" for Manhattan's next new neighborhood. Something more like SOM's proposal would have been nice and even though related always showed boxes in their renderings i always thought that they'd give us sleek designs in the end. guess im too optimistic.
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  #144  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2011, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
I am fairly sure that this is not a massing model. This is what we're getting.
Obviously it is a massing model.

It hardly bears writing, but that is exactly what a massing model is. There are currently no tenants.

You can't design a building before you know who or what is going to fill the building.
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  #145  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2011, 1:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Obviously it is a massing model.

It hardly bears writing, but that is exactly what a massing model is. There are currently no tenants.

You can't design a building before you know who or what is going to fill the building.
Well actually you can certainly build office buildings on spec, but I agree that one must at least first determine that the building will contain office space.
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  #146  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2011, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Obviously it is a massing model.

It hardly bears writing, but that is exactly what a massing model is. There are currently no tenants.

You can't design a building before you know who or what is going to fill the building.
Buildings are designed all the time before we know how the tenants are. Look at 250 W 55th St and Vornado's proposed P/A tower.
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  #147  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2011, 11:11 AM
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Buildings are designed all the time before we know how the tenants are. Look at 250 W 55th St and Vornado's proposed P/A tower.
Im not sure that those are good examples just given the fact that those 2 towers specifically have enormous floor plates that would attract any financial tenant. Im not sure this is the case with whats proposed here.
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  #148  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2011, 2:37 PM
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^ All the more reason these towers would be simpler to design. There are finite amounts of office space availible in each tower, we know the first tower will be topped by residential. From the video, we have a better look at the so called "Shed" and the new "wintergarden"...

Quote:

worldarchitecturenews.com

http://www.arts.gov/artworks/?tag=hu...nt-corporation
Culture Shed comprises a five-story base building with museum quality exhibition spaces and two telescoping outer shells that, when deployed, provide expanded conditioned space to accommodate large art exhibitions, concerts, film screenings, and galas.

Below is the shed with the "shells" rolled back.



The wintergarden seems huge.




Like most buildings in Manhattan, these towers could fill the needs of most tenants, and from the clip they're already talking to at least a dozen.



I'm pretty sure this is the final design, but renderings would go a long way to giving us a "look" at what the proposal really is.
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  #149  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2011, 5:07 PM
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Why did they go with 3 shortish towers rather than one megatall? The tallest tower is not very tall.

NY has lost all interest in pushing the envelope.
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  #150  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2011, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Why did they go with 3 shortish towers rather than one megatall? The tallest tower is not very tall.

NY has lost all interest in pushing the envelope.
The tallest looks like it's in the 1200-1300' range, which is impressive I'd say. Not a 2,000'er, but still very respectable. I do think that if anywhere in the city does get something taller than the new WTC it'll be Hudson Yards...
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  #151  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2011, 5:29 PM
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How can that be? The site plan shows that this would be the tallest on the site. Any taller tower would have to be somewhere else. A taller building than the WTC wouldn't be on the yards as you can see from this rendering.
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  #152  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 4:09 AM
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It's not a rendering just a massing model.......relax already.
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  #153  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 5:51 AM
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^ That's a model of the office portion of the development, it's what is getting built. The south tower is the one to begin construction by next year.

The undeveloped towers are shown as massing models here:



It's always possible things could change, but I would get used to that scheme.



Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Why did they go with 3 shortish towers rather than one megatall? The tallest tower is not very tall. NY has lost all interest in pushing the envelope.
It's a private development, and Related is not in business to "push the envelope". The goal is to produce needed and economically viable office space. The towers are in the same height range as the Manhattan West and 15 Penn Plaza buildings.
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  #154  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 12:05 PM
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https://content.related.com/Lists/In...002.9.2011.pdf

Manhattan’s Colossal Hudson Yards Project Aims to Lure Dot Com ‘Digerati’

Feb 9, 2011
By Denise Kalette, Managing Editor, NREI

Quote:
When developers from the Related Cos. surveyed the 26 acres on the west side of Manhattan that represent the largest undevelop ed tract in New York City, they saw beyond the stored rail cars and the tracks that guide trains to Hudson Yards from Penn Station. What the developers saw, instead, were digerati — the elite groups of digital wizards who populate the offices of Google and other computer firms in the neighborhood.

They saw thousands of apartments and condos, new corporate headquarters, and retail shops. And the labor and risk it would take to transform the acreage into a state-of-the-art mixed-use development would be worth the risk, in the developer’s calculation, according to Jay Cross, president of Related Hudson Yards, which is partnering with the Canadian firm, Oxford Properties Group.

Related now is in the pre-construction phase of the $15 billion, 15-year project. It is demolishing the Metals Purchasing Building and removing small amounts of soil as part of the preparatory work at the brownfield site, an industrial area requiring cleanup, before development can begin early in 2012.

The work will be tricky, involving the construction of platforms over the rail yards. “Think of the trains as being in the basement of your house,” says Cross. “It’s like Park Avenue, really, all the trains going north under Park Avenue are underneath all those buildings. So in that sense it’s been done before.”

It’s the most ambitious project Cross has ever undertaken “by a country mile,” he says, even when taking into account the New Meadowlands stadium, the American Airlines Center in Miami, and other developments.
But the developer sees healthy returns down the road, and the company aims to attract corporate tenants or buyers to the site, perhaps companies that want to consolidate their offices in a single, state-of-the-art space.

“Our strategy is two-fold. In the early days, we want to try to get large commercial users to come because of the extraordinary amount of infrastructure that we have to put in, namely the platforms over the yards. So, what we’re saying to large commercial users in town is that we will build the headquarters buildings for you at our cost, whether you want to lease or own,” says Cross.

The strategy is to launch the commercial component early, by offering bargain rates and deals, and defer the higher returns until the residential side of the development gets under way.


A grand plan, with incentives

In all, the project will encompass more than 12 million sq. ft., with approximately 5,000 apartments, 6 million sq. ft. of office space, at least one hotel, a public school, and a cultural building. The master plan also calls for 750,000 sq. ft. of retail space. The retail will take the form of a podium of four floors or higher, surrounded by three office towers.

The developers have considered both brand and boutique hotels for the site, which could accommodate up to three hotels. “We’ve considered a five- star hotel, which would be 250 to 350 rooms. We’ve also considered a convention hotel, 1,000 rooms,” says Cross. Discussions have been held with potential operators.

Related’s joint venture was created specifically for the Hudson Yards project. The firm won the proposal call to develop the property as a result of a Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA) call.

Related’s first partner at the time of the award was Goldman Sachs, and last May, the developer brought in Oxford as an investor. The Canadian company, predominantly an office specialist, expanded its U.S. footprint as it partnered with Related to capitalize the venture. The two won’t have to turn to banks for funding until a later stage in the development.

Subtracting the rail yards, the mixed-use model may look familiar. “It’s not dissimilar to the Time Warner Center in New York, but bigger,” says Cross. Related built the Center, which opened in 2004. “It’s been an outstanding success,” says Cross of the earlier development. The condominiums are in demand, and the project has had a far-reaching impact in improving its Manhattan surroundings, he adds.

In a plan endorsed by New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, the Hudson Yards apartments will include at least 460 affordable units. The developer is following New York State’s 80-20% ratio of market rate and affordable housing.

In terms of incentives, the city is doing a lot for the site, says Cross. “They’re building the number 7 subway, which will come right to our front door.” The line is under construction and scheduled to open in 2014. Penn Station is a five-minute walk from the yards. The city is also providing substantial tax abatement incentives, such as a 40% reduction in taxes for the first 5 million sq. ft., over 20 years.

Bursting with ‘dot coms’

New York City has good reason to support the project, according to the developer. “The city realized as much as 10 years ago that bringing the subway to the west side was going to open up those areas for both commercial and residential development. And so the city is paying for the subway, even though it’s part of the MTA infrastructure. “ The city has also invested in nearby streets, and is building a three-block park.

The rail yards have long been a stumbling block to developing the city’s west side, although to the north, Clinton and Hell’s Kitchen are developing rapidly.

“Once we start going, then everything around us will start to go with us,” says Cross. Hudson Yards’ 12 million sq. ft. is likely to trigger development of 40 million sq. ft. in the vicinity, he notes. “This neighborhood already is growing at twice the rate of Manhattan. It enjoys high income levels equivalent to the rest of Manhattan. It’s a very happening neighborhood within the context of New York.

In particular the west side “digerati” are a highly desirable demographic, he says. “It’s a Generation X-er that is very computer literate.” The digerati are unusually single, with about 70% nonfamily households compared to Manhattan in general, with 50% family households. “But they’ve got the same income, so you end up with a more mobile population that has slightly higher disposable income because they’re not putting children through school, etc. So it’s a very young crowd that is growing rapidly.”

Google has its biggest presence outside of California in the same neighborhood, Cross adds. Dot com and tech companies have sprouted across the west side, along with creative firms in the retail and fashion industries.

“This part of town is definitely going to come on strong,” says Cross. “It’s just a question of how quickly.
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  #155  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 12:35 PM
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Another look at what's being called the "Great Room"...

Quote:

Werner Sobek’s soaring Great Room will distinguish Hudson Yards’ retail


https://content.related.com/Lists/In...rch%202011.pdf
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  #156  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 12:44 PM
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The office towers shown in the model are clearly the ones depicted here. The little protrusions on the facade are visible. This project is a real disappointment.

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  #157  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 1:15 PM
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Quotes from the same piece...
https://content.related.com/Lists/In...rch%202011.pdf

Hudson Yards puts the heart in Midtown Manhattan

In an exclusive interview with REurope Magazine, Jay Cross, President of Related Hudson Yards and Blake Hutcheson, President
&CEOofOxford PropertiesGroup discuss their vision for this unique scheme, which is destined to change the shape and skyline of
Manhattan for good...


REurope Number 73 - March 2011

Quote:
JC: The Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) built the yards in the 1980s to store trains that were coming in and out of Penn Station with an expectation that some day, developers would build over them. The yards were specifically laid out in a way which would allow a developer to come in and overbuild. As part of New York’s 2012 Olympic bid, New York proposed to build an Olympic Stadium over the yards which resulted in a rapid rezoning and created a new neighbourhood called Hudson Yards, which is even bigger than the 26 acres site which we are building on.

The MTA then put out a Request for Proposals, and most of the major developers in town submitted; Related was designated as the developer of the Yards in May 2008.

Within 18 months of taking on the project, we completed the entitlement and approvals process. It’s clearly unusual to have 26 acres all entitled, zoned and ready to go, but it’s really been the result of a careful over 20-year planning process. A big advantage for us is that we came in at the tail-end of the process, so we’re now in pole position to start construction.

RE: WHAT WILL MIPIM MEAN FOR YOU IN TERMS OF SHOWCASING THE PROJECT?

JC: Generally speaking, we’re looking to increase international awareness of the project. Many people don’t realise that there’s a 26 acre development site on the west side of Manhattan, which is still part of Midtown and just five minutes walk from Penn Station, which is the busiest transportation hub in the United Stated.

We want to generate awareness that we are ready to start construction immediately and that we can provide the most modern commercial office space in the city. There are also many large tenants in New York that are international in scope and headquartered in Europe, so some of their real estate decisions might be made overseas.


RE: HUDSON YARDS WILL BE DISTINGUISHED BY ITS OWN SUBWAY STATION AND SIT AT THE HEART OF THE REGION’S TRANSPORTATION
NETWORK – HOW WILL THAT IMPROVE STILL FURTHER?


JC: The basic infrastructure, which is already in place, is considerable. Penn Station today handles 640,000 people a day, which is equivalent to all three New York airports. In addition to that, there’s increasing water taxi activity on the Hudson River and there’s also the adjacent Lincoln Tunnel and the West Side Highway, which are major vehicular routes into Manhattan. So every type of transport converges on our site from every direction; the one piece that wasn’t there historically was a connection to Grand Central Terminal: but as part of the 2005 rezoning, the city committed to extend a subway line from Times Square to our front door.

BH: It’s worth saying here that Hudson Yards won’t be like Canary Wharf which had to wait for its transportation system to arrive; with Hudson Yards, convenient public access will come first and improve over time.

RE: THE SHOPS AT HUDSON YARDS WILL BE MODELLED ON RELATED’S SUCCESS WITH TIMEWARNER CENTER, BUTWILLBE UNIQUE, NOT LEAST DUE TO WERNER SOBEK’S INNOVATIVE GLASS HALL, THE GREAT ROOM…

JC: The retail offer has very much been modelled after the success of Time Warner Center; with that project we demonstrated that four floors of vertical retail can perform very well in New York and one of the secrets of its success was the presence of the food and beverage operations at the top of the block on the third and fourth floor, with the Jazz at Lincoln Center complex on the fifth floor. With Hudson Yards, the retail space is actually twice as large as Time Warner, but again we wanted to createsomething dramatic at the top to create a sense of community. We challenged KPF to come up with a spectacular space and they in turn brought Werner Sobek into the picture, to create the Great Room. That should be dominated by food and beverage operations and create a compelling but different attraction to the Time Warner Center.

RE: ULTIMATELY, HUDSON YARDS WILL BECOME MUCH MORE THAN A COMMERCIAL CLUSTER – CAN YOU EXPLAINTHE VISION
FOR THE LONG TERMFUTURE OF THE DISTRICT?


JC: The entire complex is roughly 50:50 commercial and residential; our theory was to get goingwith the commercial, allowing large users to get the project up and running in the initial phases, but moving more westerly towards the river, it will become more and more residential.

RE: WILL HUDSON YARDS CHANGE THE SHAPE OF MANHATTAN FOR GOOD?

JC: New York as a market place is coming to the realization that we really have to build more and more class-A competitive space. A large, international user may look at his New York office space and say it’s nowhere near as good or high-performing as his London, Tokyo or Shanghai office; when we look at replenishing our stock, there aren’t enough locations in town where we have locations to build custom space for large scale users. The two big areas are the World Trade Center and Hudson Yards; in the latter,while we’re going to bring 6 million sq ft of commercial space to the market, the broader Hudson Yards area will actually build 24 million sq ft of commercial space; we’re going to contribute 5,000 new residences,as part of a wider neighbourhood of13,000 residential units. So it really is thenew frontier for Manhattan.

_____________________

Interview with Kohn Pedersen Fox Associates Co-Founder and Senior Design Partner, Bill Pedersen

Quote:
RE: How do you approach transforming such a vast, desolate space into a well-connected commercial district?

BP: Our most important goal for Hudson Yards is for it to feel like a part of New York City and to have a “New York-ness”. It should be unique, but at the same time, part of the city and particularly part of the West Side. The project is characterised by the districts bordering it (including the Highline that penetrates through) – the industrial history of these districts will give Hudson Yards a distinctive sense of character within the framework of the city.

Our assignment was to begin work on the first component, the Super Block, which is approximately 5 million square feet consisting of commercial, retail, and residential. The programmatic component offers diversity, allowing for a vibrant and dynamic ensemble of spaces.

RE: What will make Hudson Yards distinctive?

BP: Its relationship to the river will penetrate the project deeply, as well as the association of great uniqueness within the fabric of the city. The degree to which we humanise this relationship will largely determine the success of the project. The Super Block will be anchored by a structure intended to house the greatest room in NYC – a fantastic civic, public space to encourage tremendous vitality and interchange.
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  #158  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 1:40 PM
RobertWalpole RobertWalpole is offline
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If their goal is to bring office space that competes with London and Shanghai, then they've fallen well short of the mark with these pathetic towers. The earlier rendering now looks good compared to the absurd towers that will be built.




Last edited by RobertWalpole; Mar 10, 2011 at 1:56 PM.
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  #159  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 3:25 PM
thelanetrain17 thelanetrain17 is offline
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^ well sorry to ruin your parade, but thats probably whats going there or something relatively close to it.
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  #160  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 3:47 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
If their goal is to bring office space that competes with London and Shanghai, then they've fallen well short of the mark with these pathetic towers.
Exactly how? What do you know about the development of these towers that assures you this???
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