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  #161  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 5:20 PM
aquablue aquablue is offline
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
^ That's a model of the office portion of the development, it's what is getting built. The south tower is the one to begin construction by next year.

The undeveloped towers are shown as massing models here:



It's always possible things could change, but I would get used to that scheme.





It's a private development, and Related is not in business to "push the envelope". The goal is to produce needed and economically viable office space. The towers are in the same height range as the Manhattan West and 15 Penn Plaza buildings.
Private development? So are most megatalls going up around the world.

How tall is the South Tower?

NYC will never get a megatall now that they have wasted the last opportunity.
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  #162  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 5:43 PM
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what do you mean by "megatall"? a tower over 2000ft?
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  #163  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 6:24 PM
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No building can go past 2,000 feet in the US unless if you have some good reason for it, and I highly doubt NYC would get any building breaking the 2,000 foot mark.
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  #164  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 6:57 PM
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You people really need to calm down. 2,000' buildings are great and all but at this point they're inefficient and unnecessary. You don't see established places building megatalls--they're basically the equivalent of small penis syndrome for cities (and yes, Shanghai, I'm lookin' at you driving that sportscar).

New York's built-out density is far and away the most impressive in the world, with maybe Hong Kong being the only similarity. Shanghai is great and all but "modern" Shanghai is completely brand new and while it may eventually be on par with NYC, HK, Tokyo, London, and Paris, it isn't yet.

NYC actually seems to be beginning to follow HK's trajectory with supertalls... because supertalls in both places are actually driven by economics rather than gaudiness.

Why don't we refocus on Hudson Yards, a world-class project that's going to be the brand new center of an entire neighborhood? Does anyone realize how massive Hudson Yards is in relation to almost any other project in the country?
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  #165  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 8:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babybackribs2314 View Post
You people really need to calm down. 2,000' buildings are great and all but at this point they're inefficient and unnecessary. You don't see established places building megatalls--they're basically the equivalent of small penis syndrome for cities (and yes, Shanghai, I'm lookin' at you driving that sportscar).

New York's built-out density is far and away the most impressive in the world, with maybe Hong Kong being the only similarity. Shanghai is great and all but "modern" Shanghai is completely brand new and while it may eventually be on par with NYC, HK, Tokyo, London, and Paris, it isn't yet.

NYC actually seems to be beginning to follow HK's trajectory with supertalls... because supertalls in both places are actually driven by economics rather than gaudiness.

Why don't we refocus on Hudson Yards, a world-class project that's going to be the brand new center of an entire neighborhood? Does anyone realize how massive Hudson Yards is in relation to almost any other project in the country?
Thank you for this magnificent and necessary post. You speak words of wisdom for everyone.
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  #166  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Private development? So are most megatalls going up around the world.

How tall is the South Tower?

NYC will never get a megatall now that they have wasted the last opportunity.
Well, the Tower of THINK's Great Room project for new WTC (2002), was tall 2100 ft. A tower like that, it is possible, not on the Hudson Yards, but on the near sites. I think that Trump could build a 2000 ft tower in the future.
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  #167  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 8:48 PM
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Very good post babybackribs, this is NY we don't have to prove anything by building a tower over 2000 feet, plus I think it would look out of place especially this far west. Outside of Dubai this has to be one of the largest developments in the world, the whole thing is 26 acres, and not to take this too far off topic, but the point is the FAA won't allow anything more than 2000 ft and buildings of that height aren't economically viable, they don't make money.

Anywayyyy, the Great Room on the last page looks gorgeous, and I'll reserve my judgements on the quality of the buildings until we see some more detailed renderings, but always great to see your updates NYGuy.
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  #168  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 8:55 PM
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NYC builds for demand. Dubai builds for show. Point proven in that places like the Burj Kalifka is over 60% empty.

NYC doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. In terms of skyscrapers the world looks at them.

The only cities in the same league are Hong Kong and Chicago. Next on the list, Shanghai, isn't even in the same ballpark.
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  #169  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 9:42 PM
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Very good post babybackribs, this is NY we don't have to prove anything by building a tower over 2000 feet, plus I think it would look out of place especially this far west. Outside of Dubai this has to be one of the largest developments in the world, the whole thing is 26 acres, and not to take this too far off topic, but the point is the FAA won't allow anything more than 2000 ft and buildings of that height aren't economically viable, they don't make money.

Anywayyyy, the Great Room on the last page looks gorgeous, and I'll reserve my judgements on the quality of the buildings until we see some more detailed renderings, but always great to see your updates NYGuy.
A old model of THINK's Great Room project. The 2,100 ft tower was on the current site of the damaged Deustche Bank building.

Last edited by Rey88; Mar 13, 2011 at 8:38 PM.
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  #170  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 10:05 PM
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Well, the Tower of THINK's Great Room project for new WTC (2002), was tall 2100 ft. A tower like that, it is possible, not on the Hudson Yards, but on the near sites. I think that Trump could build a 2000 ft tower in the future.
Speaking of small penis syndrome...
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  #171  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 10:13 PM
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^^^ lol, good one
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  #172  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 10:17 PM
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Sound like you expect too much. This is NY. You should be familiar with the NY developer MO by now. If you want Asia, you should just go there. Stop wishing for Asia on Hudson. You should be happy NY is getting anything at all after the economy nearly collapsed. NY builds for practicality, especially in office development. NY builds to maximize profits not to innovate, make statements, or improve the quality of design in the city. That only rarely occurs. Only a fool would expect more from the majority of NY developers, especially Related.
Besides, an awful lot of the stuff in Asia and Dubai may be tall and gaudy, but I wouldn't call it first rate.
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  #173  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2011, 11:54 PM
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I understand the sentiment that we don't need 2000ft towers in NYC. However, this is the same attitude that cities such as London and Paris had when NYC was building the Empire State and other scrapers. I think it is a dangerous attitude of complacency, the world is rapidly changing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolCzech View Post
Besides, an awful lot of the stuff in Asia and Dubai may be tall and gaudy, but I wouldn't call it first rate.
There are plenty of first rate towers there. In fact, I'd take Shanghai Tower in NY anytime.

Also, I'm surprised that the developers didn't see this as a place for a future landmark tower, not what is currently planned (banal architecture). For God's sake, isn't this one of the last remaining plots of developable land left in NYC and the center of a massive shift of focus from East to West?

I

Last edited by NYguy; Mar 11, 2011 at 5:46 AM.
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  #174  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2011, 12:32 AM
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Yep, people are quick to bust on Asian skyscrapers, yet they never seem to mention the tons of schlock by Kaufman, Moinian, Avalon etc that goes up in New York on a regular basis. Point is, there's good and bad stuff in every major world city, no way around it.
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  #175  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2011, 12:33 AM
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Exactly how? What do you know about the development of these towers that assures you this???
They're idiotic-looking, second-rate towers that a ten year old kid could have designed.
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  #176  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2011, 2:34 AM
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I think most of the people that wants a 2,000 footer building in New York were once the same people that were rooting for the Chicago Spire, but when the Chicago Spire came crashing down they are extremely disappointed, and now they are just putting up random 2,000 foot buildings all over the place. Also when you build a skyscraper you also need to consider about air rights which cost money too, and you also have to consider the zoning. For example you can't build an office tower at a residential area, and if the air rights only permit a 1,000 foot building you can't build a 1,100 foot building. That is not right, and would most likely be consider stealing of the air space or could threaten air safety.

Buildings don't get built if there are no clients. Since I want to be an architect, and later on get a masters in civil engineering I know that. Second of all all architects, and civil engineers must meet the demand the client is asking. They can't put a random building up there that is 2,000 feet, and call it a day. First of all the client isn't asking for it. Yet you are forcing it on them. Second of all buildings don't go up randomly they go up when people ask for it, and when there are demands for it. If we did that a long time ago we would have had buildings built randomly all over the place.
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  #177  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2011, 5:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Private development? So are most megatalls going up around the world.
New York isn't building this tower, that should have been obvious. You obiously haven't been reading or paying attention to what's been planned for this development.


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Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
They're idiotic-looking, second-rate towers that a ten year old kid could have designed.
Really, I asked what you knew about the actual office space you seemed to be sure wouldn't be attractive to anyone. As expected, nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by babybackribs2314 View Post
You people really need to calm down. 2,000' buildings are great and all but at this point they're inefficient and unnecessary.

NYC actually seems to be beginning to follow HK's trajectory with supertalls... because supertalls in both places are actually driven by economics rather than gaudiness.

Beyond that, we're talking office buildings here. Anything approaching that height is usually topped by hotel, residential, or empty space. We all know what the size of the Hudson Yards towers are, and what the general height range is. We just don't know the exact heights. But they are plenty tall enough, especially when you consider that these buildings will be surrounded on 3 sides (all but the south) with 900 and 1,000 ft towers. Anyone disappointed with that is out of touch with reality.

What it comes down to is this: after the last few years when everything was seemingly canceled or on hold, to even be discussing what would be built here is a minor miracle. The fact that they are coming closer to pulling it off is a major one.


This reminds me just a little of the Fulton Street transit center, but on a larger scale...

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  #178  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2011, 6:12 AM
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Here's a better view of the development minus the other towers...

http://www.kpf.com/project.asp?T=8&ID=125









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  #179  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2011, 12:28 PM
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NYguy, you are the best
Fantastic, a 1250-1300 ft tower for Hudson Yards

Last edited by Rey88; Mar 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM.
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  #180  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2011, 2:35 PM
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Location of old and new proposals in the vicinity of the eastern yards...






Past incarnations of Related's project...





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