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  #741  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 5:42 PM
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I know we haven't even demo'd for the new arena but after reading this morning about how owners of the Oakland A's are bitch'n about the Oakland Coliseum I was thinking how nice it would be for the A's to move into a new retro-style ballpark at the Railyards. The biggest problem we would have is *surprise* the owner. He wants to move the team to San Jose because he owns property nearby the proposed site. I think he also owns the SJ Earthquakes. But he's having a hard time moving to the South Bay because the Giants consider it their territory. And he has said in the past that the moving to Sacramento is out of the question. What if anything would change his mind? What do you guys think?

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  #742  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 6:58 PM
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What if anything would change his mind? What do you guys think?
A thriving kings arena and archillary development around the arena, along with a taxpayer subsidy, but I doubt that will happen in Sac after the kings arena. Maybe West Sac can pony up tax payer dollars if they can afford it.

But I still think we are at least 3-4 years away from anyone looking at us for a MLB team. More likely we will have a MLS team 3-4 years from now.
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  #743  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 11:09 PM
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I know we haven't even demo'd for the new arena but after reading this morning about how owners of the Oakland A's are bitch'n about the Oakland Coliseum I was thinking how nice it would be for the A's to move into a new retro-style ballpark at the Railyards. The biggest problem we would have is *surprise* the owner. He wants to move the team to San Jose because he owns property nearby the proposed site. I think he also owns the SJ Earthquakes. But he's having a hard time moving to the South Bay because the Giants consider it their territory. And he has said in the past that the moving to Sacramento is out of the question. What if anything would change his mind? What do you guys think?
I think the only place I would NOT like to see them move is AT&T park. Honestly I think they could draw good crowds, but I believe TV contracts are where most of the money comes from
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  #744  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2014, 2:17 AM
ThatDarnSacramentan ThatDarnSacramentan is offline
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I believe they designed Raley Field so that an extra deck could be added on top for MLB considerations. If that's the case, there's little sense in wasting money and materials on a brand new ballpark.
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  #745  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2014, 3:41 PM
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I believe they designed Raley Field so that an extra deck could be added on top for MLB considerations. If that's the case, there's little sense in wasting money and materials on a brand new ballpark.
Except that Raley Field is no where near MLB quality and just adding an extra deck won't make it so. If we ever did get a MLB team and the Raley Field site was selected they would probably just tear it down the current structure and build a new one. I don't believe "wasting" money is the issue.

Mayor Johnson has suggested the Oakland Athletics (River Cats are an affiliate of the A's) move to Sacramento before but the owners rejected that idea (for the reasons I mentioned above). That was before the latest impasse. Maybe he could be lured to Sacramento -either at the Railyards or at the Raley Field site. I admit it's a long shot but I think it wouldn't hurt for the mayor to try again.
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  #746  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2014, 7:43 PM
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Raley Field was not designed for expansion into an MLB-sized facility. This came up in 2012 and pretty quickly got all the air let out of it when people pointed out that an MLB team in Sacramento would mean losing the Rivercats, who are the A's AAA "farm team"--they can't play in the same market.

http://www.westsac.com/news-ledger/2...from-mlb-team/

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/...-announcement/

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West Sacramento Mayor Miffed At KJ’s Baseball Announcement
July 9, 2012 10:48 PM
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WEST SACRAMENTO (CBS13) – Sacramento Mayor Kevin Johnson’s big baseball announcement Monday where he said “we don’t want to be caught flat-footed” caught his very own political allies off-guard.

“I don’t believe in cannibalism among friends,” said West Sacramento Mayor Christopher Cabaldon, whose city is home to the Triple-A Sacramento River Cats.

Johnson’s plan would explore replacing the River Cats with a big league team. He specifically mentioned the Oakland A’s, the River Cats’ parent team.

“This is one where at least at the moment we have a significant disagreement, and I think it could have been handled differently,” Cabaldon said.

Cabaldon used strong language, saying Johnson’s baseball dreams will go nowhere.

“The notion that someone is going to snap their fingers and tomorrow the River Cats are going to be replaced by a major league team isn’t real,” he said.

More than opposing the idea, Cabaldon is upset he only learned about it when Johnson left a voicemail, the night before his public reveal.

“I’m personally a good friend of Mayor Johnson’s and we’ve done a lot together,” he said. “This is a bump in that road.

“Look if we said, ‘We want to have a conversation about locating the kings in West Sacramento. We want to move the state Capitol to West Sacramento,’ and I just announced it? I think that would cause a little bit of friction on the other side of the river too.”
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  #747  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2014, 9:11 PM
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Raley Field was not designed for expansion into an MLB-sized facility. This came up in 2012 and pretty quickly got all the air let out of it when people pointed out that an MLB team in Sacramento would mean losing the Rivercats, who are the A's AAA "farm team"--they can't play in the same market.

http://www.westsac.com/news-ledger/2...from-mlb-team/

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/...-announcement/
Of course, what would expect Cabaldon to say? I think he should not have been so dismissive of Johnson's efforts. People have consistently underestimated Johnson. The fact that he wasn't consulted and the prospects of his town losing the River Cats made him a little miffed but If he was really so sure nothing would ever come of it why would he be? The reality is WeSac exists because of Sacramento, not the other way around.

And who would really care if we lose the River Cats if in return we gain the A's? Maybe WeSac would if they built the ballpark on the Sacramento side. But that's a pretty small percentage of the region's population.
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  #748  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2014, 1:05 AM
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As a Baseball fan I would love nothing more than to see Major League Baseball in Sacramento. We have a nearly perfect climate for Baseball, and despite the fact that we have only an NBA team Sacramento has always been a Baseball town. We produce top-level talent at the High School and Junior College level, and the River Cats have been by-far the most successful team in the Minor Leagues since moving here. I can think of nothing I would love more than to watch MLB games in Sacramento.

Having said that, it's probably not going to happen. Baseball stadiums cost a lot more than basketball arenas do, and with as much opposition as we have had to a new Arena here (going on at least 8 years of heated discussion now) there is no way that the taxpayers of Sacramento would ever agree to build a Baseball Stadium. So unless an owner wants to come and build one with private financing, it's not going to happen.

Raley Field is not suitable for an MLB team. The footprint is not big enough and they would need to tear it down and rebuild it to house an MLB team.

Now, if we were to get a team, the A's would make the most sense. They are probably not going to be allowed to move to San Jose, and the prospects of them getting a new Stadium in Oakland are poor. Lew Wolff has previously said that he would not consider moving the A's to Sacramento, but it would make sense to. We have a large enough population to support a team. We are the 20th largest TV market in America, just behind Cleveland and larger than 7 current MLB markets (St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, San Diego, Kansas City, Milwaukee, and Cincinnati). Combine that with our proximity to The Bay and our already established population of A's fans and Sacramento seems like a great destination. If Wolff sells the A's off to somebody with Sacramento ties, or if the Arena is wildly successful, then he could change his mind about Sacramento.

The financing will always be the kicker here. Without our economy recovering and growing strong, any stadium here will need to be at least partially publicly financed, and "TAX" is a 4-letter word in Sacramento. Also, of course Cabaldon is going to be against all this talk. Having the River Cats in West Sac has been the main reason for all of the new development going in on their side of the Riverfront. But that is selfish on their part, because an MLB team would be MUCH better for Sacramento than a Triple-A team, especially an MLB team on our side of the river. Losing the River Cats would be a very small price to pay.

Suffice to say, if I could spend my time Downtown going back and forth between the new Arena and a Ballpark in the Railyard, I would be the happiest sports fan in the world.
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  #749  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2014, 3:26 AM
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Meanwhile, I'm still hoping for the much-needed housing in the Railyards--there were supposed to be 10,000 units, now the new owner says maybe half that. Lose much more and we're stuck with the status quo of a commuter downtown that empties out at 5 PM, and maybe a couple of attractions that do well for the first few years until the luster of a new project wears off. Meh. A populated downtown becomes its own civic amenity, one that developers are willing to pay to be a part of, instead of having to beg developers to accept with gifts of public funds. Let a team chase us, not the other way around!
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  #750  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2014, 4:47 AM
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Completely agree on the housing in the Railyard. We need a lot of middle to moderate income housing to convince all of those state workers and young professionals to live downtown instead of moving to Roseville.
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  #751  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2014, 6:48 AM
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Meanwhile, I'm still hoping for the much-needed housing in the Railyards--there were supposed to be 10,000 units, now the new owner says maybe half that. Lose much more and we're stuck with the status quo of a commuter downtown that empties out at 5 PM, and maybe a couple of attractions that do well for the first few years until the luster of a new project wears off. Meh. A populated downtown becomes its own civic amenity, one that developers are willing to pay to be a part of, instead of having to beg developers to accept with gifts of public funds. Let a team chase us, not the other way around!
Don't exaggerate. Even if not a single housing unit is built in the Railyards we will still have a hell of a lot of infill potential within the existing grid. In other words, downtown's success is not in anyway dependent on the Railyards. Now if as you say the owners are density shy then I'm all for letting the Railyards sit idle for awhile until the rest of central city gets built-up.
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  #752  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2014, 3:00 PM
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It's not exaggeration if it's a fact. And if downtown's success is not in any way dependent on the railyards, why is it seemingly dependent on K Street, 2 blocks away?
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  #753  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2014, 5:01 PM
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It's not exaggeration if it's a fact. And if downtown's success is not in any way dependent on the railyards, why is it seemingly dependent on K Street, 2 blocks away?
Oh come on now Mr. Burg. You of all people should know the answer to your question. Why are you being obstinate? K Street has historically been Sacramento's "main street," whereas the Railyards would be a whole new neighborhood addition to our downtown. We are in total agreement when it comes to the need for more downtown housing. And I've been a supporter of the Railyards and attended seemingly endless community meetings on it. I just do not want them to blow it. I'd rather wait until conditions warrant higher densities and/or the Railyards owners (and the City) come to their collective senses. And I think I know where you stand on the whole pro sports thing so I won't try and convince you of the merits of a ballpark at the Railyards.
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  #754  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2014, 5:56 PM
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I'm all for housing downtown... just stop with the freaking rentals. So much new housing is going in downtown and 99% of it is made of rentals. I don't want to spend $2,500 a month renting something I could buy for $1,200 a month.

Every time I see a cool new building going up, it turns out that it is apartments. Every time I see a cool new condo complex being advertised or talked about on CADA or Facebook... it is turned into apartments.

The Park Moderns really peaked my interest in West sac, and then they sold out. I feel like developers are missing something.... namely my money that I'm willing to give away if they would just build it.
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  #755  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2014, 7:37 PM
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The rail yards could end up being like Chicago's south loop, lots of new housing, however no real neighborhood fill, or interesting things to do like in established parts of the city. Vibrant street life might take time to establish itself in the rail yards
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  #756  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2014, 2:02 AM
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K Street hasn't been Sacramento's main street in any practical sense since before I was born--and K Street's "golden age" was pretty much the same era when the Southern Pacific shops were Sacramento's largest employer, up until the early 1950s...just before the redevelopment era. So I'd say that, in many ways, they are of equal importance--and given their location within a couple blocks of each other, their success is very much interdependent. In some ways, the decline of both came hand in hand with the era of the automobile, redevelopment, and the post-industrial era.

The Railyards is a larger area than the downtown chunk of K Street--240 acres vs. 80 acres (the half-blocks on either side of K Street from I-5 to about 16th Street) and has a lot more currently vacant land (open except for the Shops, Depot and UP ROW, vs. 1/4 block at 8th and K) which means a lot more potential for new growth and new construction. And while K Street already has a currently viable 9-5 function (there are a whole lot of offices there, which is why there are so many lunch places that close after 3 PM) and limited nightlife function (mostly on the 1000 and 1200 blocks), the Railyards currently only play the role of Amtrak depot and Railroad Museum repair/rehab facility.

The Railyards are also a lot more visible to visitors to Sacramento, via the Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin, both of which are among the busiest Amtrak routes in the country, and the Sacramento Valley Depot, the second-busiest Amtrak depot west of the Mississippi. You can drive on K Street now, but the only time a visitor to Sacramento driving into town sees K Street is if they make a wrong turn coming in via J Street or going out via L Street.

Not sure how many planning blogs or online newspapers you follow, ozone, but they're all screaming about how the Millenials want to live downtown, RIGHT NOW, and we do appear to be catching the wave of the Bay Area housing boom (as usual, a little later, but it inevitably arrives) so it seems to me that the time to build dense, urban housing in the Railyards, and creative new uses in the Shops buildings, is immediately if not sooner--while the economic "balloon squeeze" of the Kings arena is still in effect (it's a temporary effect, only as long as it's still considered "the new arena" and not "the old arena.")
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  #757  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2014, 7:37 PM
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The rail yards could end up being like Chicago's south loop, lots of new housing, however no real neighborhood fill, or interesting things to do like in established parts of the city. Vibrant street life might take time to establish itself in the rail yards
Orrrrr...it could be like Milwaukee's Third Ward...an abandoned industrial area that is now one of the hubs of urban life in a city that was once written off as a casualty of the rust belt. There are many great restaurants, shops, and businesses in the Third Ward...AND the Milwaukee Public Market. Chicago's South Loop has some shady areas (public housing, I think) nearby and no real retail/restaurant draw. I believe they'll make sure the Railyards development has some retail/restaurant draw (please no Bass Pro, though). So, I'm sure it's not at all like the South Loop.
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  #758  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2014, 12:54 AM
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The Third Ward is great--something like the Public Market would go over very well in the Railyards, using the Paint Shop or one of the other Shops buildings, or in a new, modern building nearby.

The Bass Pro is ancient history--long since fallen through. But part of why the Third Ward works is a whole lot of housing--both conversions of old buildings and new construction. The people in that housing become customers for those hip urban businesses who don't give a damn about finding a parking space or paying for it, because they can just walk there...if they have a car at all.
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  #759  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2014, 1:52 AM
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The Third Ward is great--something like the Public Market would go over very well in the Railyards, using the Paint Shop or one of the other Shops buildings, or in a new, modern building nearby.

The Bass Pro is ancient history--long since fallen through. But part of why the Third Ward works is a whole lot of housing--both conversions of old buildings and new construction. The people in that housing become customers for those hip urban businesses who don't give a damn about finding a parking space or paying for it, because they can just walk there...if they have a car at all.
Agreed...but, that area is also a draw for those all over Metro Milwaukee AND rich Chicagoans buying up condos to stay there during the summer for all the festivals on the lake. If only Sacramento could have something akin to the Summerfest grounds near the river. That would be amazing! Can you imagine summertime concerts on the river? Amazing! Is that amphitheater still in the mix for the Railyards?
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  #760  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2014, 3:19 AM
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Nobody really knows what is in the mix for the Railyards, but the idea of putting a concert/performance space in the Docks or the Railyards is worthwhile--personally I think the Paint Shop would make a great medium-sized concert venue. We do have some pretty decent outdoor events in Discovery Park and thereabouts like the Aftershock festival, an open-air concert that drew about 15,000 people last year.
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