Landmark on Robson - U/C

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by BodomReaper

The modern 'mixed-use' retail approach is actually pitiful 900-1300 sq. ft. CRUs with no anchor tenants and no back-of-house space. Typically dropped onto a high street where there was better commercial space before.

This project will be similar, thought at least some of the units will have mezzanines. Decent chance we get a whole block of bubble tea shops and physios, when it could and should have been one of the best blocks for retail/entertainment in the city (still with towers above). But city hall made the developer prioritize shoving a bunch of social housing into the podium instead - so downtown residents don't even get to enjoy the 1/2 blocks fronting high streets for commercial life. We get the leftover space comprising around 1/3rd of the 1/2 block. This is one of the worst offenders in treating "retail frontage" as a box-checking exercise, instead of looking at the actual functionality of the space and ensuring provision of appropriate quantity + quality. A whole block of Robson, and the retail experience just never entered the equation.

Developers are ok perpetuating the myth of retail spaces being too big - so they can get away with slinging urbanity-killing garbage to strata investors. You can barely fit an A&W in a typical 1200 sq. ft. unit (remember that's the size of a condo!), let alone a bakery or any independent F&B establishment that actually makes things on-site.

Great comment and could not agree more. These tiny spaces will likely attract more transient retail catering solely to international students which we certainly have more than enough of on lower Robson. I for one live close-by and have absolutely no use for the vast majority of the local retail. I would have loved to have seen a space large enough for an expanded Whole Foods for example.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by BodomReaper

The modern 'mixed-use' retail approach is actually pitiful 900-1300 sq. ft. CRUs with no anchor tenants and no back-of-house space. Typically dropped onto a high street where there was better commercial space before.

This project will be similar, thought at least some of the units will have mezzanines. Decent chance we get a whole block of bubble tea shops and physios, when it could and should have been one of the best blocks for retail/entertainment in the city (still with towers above). But city hall made the developer prioritize shoving a bunch of social housing into the podium instead - so downtown residents don't even get to enjoy the 1/2 blocks fronting high streets for commercial life. We get the leftover space comprising around 1/3rd of the 1/2 block. This is one of the worst offenders in treating "retail frontage" as a box-checking exercise, instead of looking at the actual functionality of the space and ensuring provision of appropriate quantity + quality. A whole block of Robson, and the retail experience just never entered the equation.

Developers are ok perpetuating the myth of retail spaces being too big - so they can get away with slinging urbanity-killing garbage to strata investors. You can barely fit an A&W in a typical 1200 sq. ft. unit (remember that's the size of a condo!), let alone a bakery or any independent F&B establishment that actually makes things on-site.

I don't think that the City has a requirement that the crus were the size that have been provided, or that they couldn't have been bigger, or deeper. The building was submitted as a DP, to zoning. The zoning says there should be a continuous retail frontage. It also says that to build the most condo space in this location, a proportion has to provided as an air right parcel to the City, containing non-market housing.

The developer, and their architects, which I think is The Hong Kong office of PDP London, with MCM, determined how to do that. I would think that the hill, and the accessibility requirements in the building code contributed to the design. The podium facing Robson has office space as well on two upper floors. The non-market units face the lane, and occupy the lowest part of the building, which you would expect as they're the lower value residential part of the building.

As long as the non-market meets the proportion of total residential space, and can be subdivided as an air right parcel, as far as I can tell, the developer can locate it wherever they choose within the building. I suspect the retail space here may have been viewed as marginal, by the developer. They're apparently not averse to bigger retail spaces, they have a purely retail and office building proposal next door at 1394 Robson, with larger crus. It will be interesting to see if they build that, sell the site off, propose a different project, or leave the site undeveloped for now.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I don't think that the City has a requirement that the crus were the size that have been provided, or that they couldn't have been bigger, or deeper. The building was submitted as a DP, to zoning. The zoning says there should be a continuous retail frontage. It also says that to build the most condo space in this location, a proportion has to provided as an air right parcel to the City, containing non-market housing.

The developer, and their architects, which I think is The Hong Kong office of PDP London, with MCM, determined how to do that. I would think that the hill, and the accessibility requirements in the building code contributed to the design. The podium facing Robson has office space as well on two upper floors. The non-market units face the lane, and occupy the lowest part of the building, which you would expect as they're the lower value residential part of the building.

As long as the non-market meets the proportion of total residential space, and can be subdivided as an air right parcel, as far as I can tell, the developer can locate it wherever they choose within the building. I suspect the retail space here may have been viewed as marginal, by the developer. They're apparently not averse to bigger retail spaces, they have a purely retail and office building proposal next door at 1394 Robson, with larger crus. It will be interesting to see if they build that, sell the site off, propose a different project, or leave the site undeveloped for now.

The City could've insisted on and provided better guidelines about what they wanted to see here. But I doubt they ever have had the insight or foresight to do so, hence the general backwardness of where our downtown is heading. They are always happy to maintain the "village" feel of Robson Street, and most other commercial streets here.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Great comment and could not agree more. These tiny spaces will likely attract more transient retail catering solely to international students which we certainly have more than enough of on lower Robson. I for one live close-by and have absolutely no use for the vast majority of the local retail. I would have loved to have seen a space large enough for an expanded Whole Foods for example.

Yeah, its pretty telling that the only destination retail store that draws significant amounts of people to that stretch of Robson is the very large CB2 store.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Vin

The City could've insisted on and provided better guidelines about what they wanted to see here. But I doubt they ever have had the insight or foresight to do so, hence the general backwardness of where our downtown is heading. They are always happy to maintain the "village" feel of Robson Street, and most other commercial streets here.

I don't think we needed more nanny state to make Landmark's retail more cool. City hall is getting rid of guidelines recently and it's better than adding more and more

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Yeah, its pretty telling that the only destination retail store that draws significant amounts of people to that stretch of Robson is the very large CB2 store.

It's the only larger (and not that large really) store on the block it's on, and it's a couple of blocks from The Landmark. London Drugs is around the same size on the next block, and Muji maybe a bit bigger the one after that. Mostly there are smaller stores there, and restaurants. They all seem to attract shoppers enough to stay in business, but I've walked past and sometimes into CB2 dozens of times, and it's never, ever had 'significant amounts of people'. Now the small ramen noodle place on the next block towards Landmark seems to have a lineup outside almost every time I pass it. And Stepho's used to be busy (but not so much these days).

Quite a bit of the street frontage at that point of Robson, and continuing down the hill, is taken up with hotels, some of which have a restaurant, but also a lot of 'dead space'. That was true of the Landmark - there was one store, and a restaurant (that went out of business regularly) on the entire block face. In future there will be a continuous retail frontage with 10 stores, as well as the entrance to the offices upstairs, so there ought to be more activity than in the past.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I don't think we needed more nanny state to make Landmark's retail more cool. City hall is getting rid of guidelines recently and it's better than adding more and more

It already is a rather backward nanny state. Since we're at that, might as well make it a more forward-thinking one. We're not adding anything, but merely replacing the bad ones.

[gaviscon]

[Lexus]

These buildings make impression that they could’ve been completed a year ago. Not sure what take forever…

[Jimbo604]

Originally Posted by Lexus

These buildings make impression that they could’ve been completed a year ago. Not sure what take forever…

Agreed. I thought I'd heard the ground level stores were open. Looks like a while yet.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

Agreed. I thought I'd heard the ground level stores were open. Looks like a while yet.

The leasing brochure says January 1 2024.

[Zepfancouver]

This morning Dec 30, 2023

[jollyburger]

From an Asia Standard financial report with the contracted sales on the project.

y. The twin towers topped out in May
2022, with a projected completion date of
early 2024. As of 30th September 2023, a total
of approximately CAD230 million in contracted
sales of residential units in this development
had been achieved.

https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/li...3122900702.pdf

[officedweller]

From Lawrence Black twitter posted March 18th.
Wraps still haven't been removed from the ledge trim.


https://twitter.com/LawrenceBlackTV/...22971550466542


https://twitter.com/LawrenceBlackTV/...22971550466542


https://twitter.com/LawrenceBlackTV/...22971550466542

[Zepfancouver]

This morning, most of the sidewalks are cleaned up.

[idunno]

I'm so excited for this project to be done. Feels like forever!

Intrigued to see what retailers will take up these spaces. A whole new city block's worth of retail is going to make a big impact on the neighbourhood!

[VantageHD]

I didn't think this would turn out as good as it did. I was a huge fan of the original landmark building, but this looks even better.

[urbanight93]

This is what I wish for most developments to turn out like. No need for starchitecture, just well-thought out building massing and ground plane, quality material and finishing choices and great execution for details.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by idunno

I'm so excited for this project to be done. Feels like forever!

Intrigued to see what retailers will take up these spaces. A whole new city block's worth of retail is going to make a big impact on the neighbourhood!

Have they even leased out one of the retail units yet? Seems like we're going to wait a while for anything to open.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Have they even leased out one of the retail units yet? Seems like we're going to wait a while for anything to open.

Several appear to have been leased, but tenant fitout usually starts after the contractor has finished. I noted one tenant on the retail thread.