HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Downtown & City of Vancouver


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #81  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2008, 7:12 PM
djh djh is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
I agree that Robson Square is dysfunctional. Even the interior spaces (law courts registry, law library) are incredibly "bunker-ish". It's one of the only buildings in the City with a full block floorplate (actually 2 separate blocks). Its only appeal is the green roof and the atrium. The elevated and the sunken plazas have done no better or worse that other similar plazas in the City. (i.e. the unused rooftop plaza at Vancouver Centre above the current London Drugs was removed maybe 5 years ago with renovations to the former Vancouver Centre Theatres)
Speaking of which and a bit off-topic, but whatever did happen to those empty cinemas in Vancouver Centre? I remember when they were closed, one less cinema on Granville, but there was no announcement that they would be bought or sold. Are they just sitting there unused? Surely SFUs downtown campus could have made good use of them?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #82  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2008, 9:40 PM
SpongeG's Avatar
SpongeG SpongeG is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 39,106
i think they are a language school now
__________________
belowitall
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #83  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2008, 10:08 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 38,231
That's right, they renovated the space and added windows.

****

The roof for Robson Square looks good.

The removal of the domes and what on the elevation looks like escalators down to the sunken level directly from the street would hugely open up the space.

A Foster-like configuration for the glass part of the roof (between the two massive supporting wooden edge beams) would, in effect, be a "second-generation" approach to Erickson's space-frame over the Law Courts atrium.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #84  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2008, 10:32 PM
Rusty Gull's Avatar
Rusty Gull Rusty Gull is offline
Site 8 Lives
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver's North Shore
Posts: 1,285
Trevor Boddy has weighed in today, and his prognosis is not good.

I always enjoy reading Boddy's work, but I have to disagree with him, at least in some places, on this story. For example, I don't believe Robson Square is the overwhelming success that he makes it out to be.

With that being said, his article is worth reading.. and he raises some interesting points about design and functionality...

---
URBAN PLANNING
Overarching aspirations

TREVOR BODDY

From Friday's Globe and Mail
January 25, 2008 at 12:00 AM EST

We dwell collectively in cities, so it's only natural that we would come to think of a place like downtown Vancouver as one big home. Conceived this way, our downtown peninsula makes for a very strange dwelling indeed — one having a huge backyard (Stanley Park and Burrard Inlet), lots of tiny bedrooms (all those condos), but precious little living room (urban public open space.)

By a long shot, downtown Vancouver's largest and best-loved "living room" is Robson Square. It is a welcome oasis of light and greenery for the residents of our ever-denser core, a healthy outlet for our city's political life as favoured locale for protests, and home to the Arthur Erickson buildings that put Vancouver on the world's architectural map.

Coming on the heels of the destruction of the Erickson-designed Graham House last month, a howl of protest has erupted recently over provincial government plans that would radically alter the multi-levelled public square and lush gardens. Robson Square "revitalization" plans estimated to cost $87-million are advanced enough to fill three binders full of technical and design particulars — now awaiting approval in the office of the scheme's principal sponsor, Premier Gordon Campbell.

These and other details were confirmed in a Jan. 18 press briefing by British Columbia's Asia-Pacific and Olympics minister Colin Hansen. Mr. Hansen and project architect Clive Grout stressed that plans have not been finalized, and that a huge clamshell new roof over the sunken skating rink, plus a new Asia-Pacific Centre pavilion to be inserted at the raised walkway and landscaped mound level along Hornby Street would be subject to public review.

Later in the same briefing, however, Mr. Hansen stated that if portions can be put in place before the 2010 Olympics, so much the better. The scale and complexity of the Robson Square proposals means that construction plans must be finalized in a matter of weeks, if the proposed roof or pavilion is to be in place by that deadline.

The most controversial element of the plan is a huge wooden arch springing from near the entrance of the Vancouver Art Gallery, up over Robson Street high enough to permit the passage of city buses underneath, then down to terra firma again near Mr. Erickson's famous "stramps" — a combined staircase and ramp — at the Law Courts and (now-dormant) fountain side. The rationale Mr. Hansen has offered for this enormous arch is to keep the rain off the skating rink below, where General Electric (corporate parent of 2010 broadcaster NBC) is providing $1.7-million for an enlarged ice surface and new refrigeration plant.

In addition to the enormous visual impact the new arch would have on the Francis Rattenbury-designed Edwardian courthouse, Arthur Erickson's provincial buildings at Robson Square, and landscape architect Cornelia Oberlander's plantings in-between the two iconic buildings, the current proposal may have a fatal urban design flaw. In order to accommodate vehicular and pedestrian traffic along Robson Street, this is an arch without walls — just a glazed roof, open on the sides.

The worry is that the arch's inescapable need for openings may mean more rain on the rink below, not less. As experienced by anyone who has encountered a mild wind accelerated to gale force at the base of office towers, the shape of buildings can amplify winds. Engineers call this the "Venturi Effect," and an open-sided arch may well push rain even further into the skating zone than under the current ranks of brown plastic skylights. At the Jan. 18 briefing, project architect Clive Grout stated that wind studies for his design have not yet been done.

In an open letter released several days earlier, Arthur Erickson describes his involvement in the radical Robson Square redesign proposals as being "minimal." But Mr. Erickson also points to a possible alternative, one that would accommodate our provincial government's understandable desire for a rain-proof public gathering place during the 2010 Winter Games.

Inspired by Mr. Erickson's original plans of 30 years ago, why not leave the area between VAG and Law Courts as they are (the sunken plaza is widely recognized as his original design's weakest component and surely needs a re-do, but nothing as clumsy as this clamshell roof), then shift new interventions to the other side, along Georgia Street? Since this Georgia-flanking zone — a true urban square in the European sense, not the multi-levelled hybrid along Robson — is scheduled for re-construction anyway, construction could be sped up for completion for the 2010 Winter Games.

If shelter from the rain is thought worth the investment, an elegant temporary or permanent high roof could be erected along the street (but please, not up against VAG's neo-classical walls.) After all, the Vancouver Organizing Committee likes this high profile central space enough to locate their Olympic countdown clock there, and a renewed square would be a wonderful complement to the 2010 live sites for entertainment and events proposed for David Lam Park and the former bus station location a few blocks down Georgia.

The area between VAG and Georgia is the only portion of Mr. Erickson's three-block-long scheme that was never completed. His concept here was for a largely hard-surfaced central plaza — adapting itself readily to multiple uses, ranging from concerts to demos to ethnic fairs — greened at the edges along Howe and Hornby Streets with double alleys of mature trees and brimming planters. One of the scheme's more ingenious ideas was an in-ground fountain at centre, permitting the waterworks to be turned off and on depending on each day's planned activities. What's best, completing Arthur Erickson's conception would cost substantially less than the $87-million for radical surgery and extraneous re-padding currently awaiting cabinet approval.

As has happened many times before, our most famous architect may have had it right the first time. Bringing new urban life to Georgia — not destroying what has long succeeded along Robson — may be the best living memorial we can give Arthur Erickson.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #85  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2008, 10:45 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 38,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Gull View Post
URBAN PLANNING
Overarching aspirations

TREVOR BODDY

From Friday's Globe and Mail
January 25, 2008 at 12:00 AM EST

...... shift new interventions to the other side, along Georgia Street? Since this Georgia-flanking zone — a true urban square in the European sense, not the multi-levelled hybrid along Robson — is scheduled for re-construction anyway, construction could be sped up for completion for the 2010 Winter Games.
...
The area between VAG and Georgia is the only portion of Mr. Erickson's three-block-long scheme that was never completed. His concept here was for a largely hard-surfaced central plaza — adapting itself readily to multiple uses, ranging from concerts to demos to ethnic fairs — greened at the edges along Howe and Hornby Streets with double alleys of mature trees and brimming planters. One of the scheme's more ingenious ideas was an in-ground fountain at centre, permitting the waterworks to be turned off and on depending on each day's planned activities. What's best, completing Arthur Erickson's conception would cost substantially less than the $87-million for radical surgery and extraneous re-padding currently awaiting cabinet approval.
The Georgia St. frontage works fine as is. It is the City's official "lawn".

So Boddy proposes demolishing the BC Centennial Fountain (erected in 1958 for the Colony of BC's 100th anniversary) in this BC's sesquicentennial (150th) anniversary year - how appropriate!?!?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #86  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2008, 1:19 AM
mr.x's Avatar
mr.x mr.x is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 12,805
I thought that article was overly negative and pessimistic, i disagree with it. where did he come up with the $87 million figure?

and why on earth would he want to rip up the Art Gallery lawn?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #87  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2008, 6:29 AM
deasine deasine is offline
Vancouver Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,747
I never really liked newspapers like Globe and Mail & 24 hours... I find them really bias.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #88  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2008, 6:32 AM
mr.x's Avatar
mr.x mr.x is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 12,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
I never really liked newspapers like Globe and Mail & 24 hours... I find them really bias.
Yea, the Globe's Trevor Boddy seems to be quite negative and pessimistic about Vancouver....in nearly every one of his articles.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #89  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2008, 7:32 AM
duener duener is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: YVR>LHR>YUL
Posts: 182
Is the plan here to just erect a covered structure and keep the sunken plaza?

If so, that's a shame. It would great if they could:

a. have the skating rink/public space be at ground level

b. eliminate the vehicle traffic cutting across the square

c. have some small cafes on the outside that provide lots of outdoor seating

Then we'd have a real heart-of-city square!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #90  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2008, 9:16 AM
MistyMountainHop's Avatar
MistyMountainHop MistyMountainHop is offline
I worship Led Zeppelin
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,233
^ That would be great, but closing Robson isn't going to happen.
__________________
Bill: Be excellent to each other.
Ted: Party on, dudes.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #91  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2008, 8:46 PM
djh djh is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x2 View Post
Yea, the Globe's Trevor Boddy seems to be quite negative and pessimistic about Vancouver....in nearly every one of his articles.
I don't think he's negative or pessimistic, I think he is critical. That's a different thing. I think if one is being criticiized it's easy to get defensive and see the criticism as negative and pessimistic. That reaction pretty much sums up Vancouver - a person says something about the city and proud Vancouveries' hackles get raised. Instead, it would be better to step back and hear the criticism for what could be constructive and helpful. If nobody was to criticize Vancouver's development we would have some real messes being approved.

I just re-read the whole article below and it's not at all negative or pessimistic. Your point about his writing is not very apparent, even though you said he's so in "nearly" every article. Plus he writes for the Vancouver Sun too, is he negative and pessimistic when he writes there?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #92  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2008, 2:50 AM
crazyjoeda's Avatar
crazyjoeda crazyjoeda is offline
Mac User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 861
Thumbs down Robson Square Sucks!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by marmorek View Post
^ That would be great, but closing Robson isn't going to happen.
It would be easy (and possibly cheaper) to have Robson dip under the square for one block. The Law Courts end of Erickson's design should be saved but every thing between their and the museum should be redesigned into a level public square over one block of robson street. That sunken skating rink is stupid, it is way to small.

This wood structure is dumb and will look ugly!!! Vancouver lacks a public/festival square. London has Trafalger Square, Toronto has Yonge-Dundas Square and Nathan Phillips Square, San Francisco has Union Square and etc. Our Robson square does not function as a public square; the square is not open, inviting or easily accessible.

Imagine, Robson Square, and open place for free concerts, public rallies, celebrations and a place to watching the 2010 Olympics.

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #93  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2008, 3:22 AM
Yume-sama's Avatar
Yume-sama Yume-sama is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vancouver / Calgary / Tokyo
Posts: 7,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyjoeda View Post
It would be easy (and possibly cheaper) to have Robson dip under the square for one block. The Law Courts end of Erickson's design should be saved but every thing between their and the museum should be redesigned into a level public square over one block of robson street. That sunken skating rink is stupid, it is way to small.

This wood structure is dumb and will look ugly!!! Vancouver lacks a public/festival square. London has Trafalger Square, Toronto has Yonge-Dundas Square and Nathan Phillips Square, San Francisco has Union Square and etc. Our Robson square does not function as a public square; the square is not open, inviting or easily accessible.

Imagine, Robson Square, and open place for free concerts, public rallies, celebrations and a place to watching the 2010 Olympics.

Or more likely, frequent protests by groups such as the APC, and other such groups that will cause normal people to avoid it...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #94  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2008, 3:31 AM
mr.x's Avatar
mr.x mr.x is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 12,805
Something like this in St. Petersburgh for Robson Square would be amazing:






Reply With Quote
     
     
  #95  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2008, 4:31 AM
deasine deasine is offline
Vancouver Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,747
For a minute i thought that roof was low clouds... But looks very new and fresh.

We need better renderings - one black and white bird's eye view isn't enough.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #96  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2008, 5:49 AM
Rusty Gull's Avatar
Rusty Gull Rusty Gull is offline
Site 8 Lives
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver's North Shore
Posts: 1,285
Boddy no longer writes for the Vancouver Sun. The Globe probably won't let him (since the Sun and Globe are competitors).

I like his journalism. Biting, yes... but informative and interesting and opinionated, also yes. Plus, he's not afraid to call our planners out on some of the supposed triumphs and sacred cows of this city, such as "Vancouverism", view cones, various real estate developments, etc.

Long live "the Bod".
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #97  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2008, 9:14 AM
duener duener is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: YVR>LHR>YUL
Posts: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyjoeda View Post
It would be easy (and possibly cheaper) to have Robson dip under the square for one block. The Law Courts end of Erickson's design should be saved but every thing between their and the museum should be redesigned into a level public square over one block of robson street. That sunken skating rink is stupid, it is way to small.

This wood structure is dumb and will look ugly!!! Vancouver lacks a public/festival square. London has Trafalger Square, Toronto has Yonge-Dundas Square and Nathan Phillips Square, San Francisco has Union Square and etc. Our Robson square does not function as a public square; the square is not open, inviting or easily accessible.

Imagine, Robson Square, and open place for free concerts, public rallies, celebrations and a place to watching the 2010 Olympics.


I was thinking the same thing.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that when the square was originally built, the Robson Street section was meant to be a mini transit mall, and they later opened it to cars. It's not like it's a main traffic artery so I don't see why it couldn't be closed off to cars. They can divert the traffic around it.

Trafalgar Square in London had a busy road cutting off the square from the National Gallery until recently... now it's more functional and more popular. The red part in the below photo was transformed from a busy road to a pedestrianised terrace.


Transalt.org
http://www.transalt.org/press/magazi...s/16london.jpg
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #98  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2008, 10:24 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 38,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by duener View Post
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that when the square was originally built, the Robson Street section was meant to be a mini transit mall, and they later opened it to cars. It's not like it's a main traffic artery so I don't see why it couldn't be closed off to cars. They can divert the traffic around it.
That's correct.
It was discussed 10 years ago in a City Report when they prohibited right turns at Hornby & Robson. The narrowing of Robson also created problems with right-turning cars holding up traffic on eastbound Robson (hence the advance right turn arrow).

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/970708/tt4.htm

Quote:
BACKGROUND

In 1977, the Robson Square Court House was constructed in the 800 block
Robson between Howe and Hornby Streets. A four-lane "bridge" structure
with full sidewalks was constructed over Robson Square. However, the
surface roadway was narrowed to one traffic lane in each direction and
was initially restricted to buses and emergency vehicles only. In 1982,
in response to West End requests to improve retail continuity, the 800
block Robson was opened to traffic. The Mall-type street design
remained, with one lane of general purpose traffic in each direction.

On March 25, 1997, the Standing Committee on Transportation and Traffic
requested a report on ways to reduce transit delays on the 800 block
Robson.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #99  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2008, 7:17 PM
jlousa's Avatar
jlousa jlousa is offline
Ferris Wheel Hater
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,371
If you dip the road there you also have to get rid of all the trolley buses as you couldn't dip it low enough for it to work, I think the solution to make lemonade with the lemon we have.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #100  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2008, 12:21 AM
crazyjoeda's Avatar
crazyjoeda crazyjoeda is offline
Mac User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 861
Quote:
you couldn't dip it low enough for it to work
Why?

I don't see a reason why the tunnel couldn't go deep enough to allow for trolley cables to go through it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Downtown & City of Vancouver
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:26 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.