Metro Vancouver Road Infrastructure Discussion

[Whalleyboy]

Originally Posted by deasine

I'm positive there will be people still driving to the Pattulo wondering WTF happened... I can't imagine the lineup at Scott Road STN tmr...

it was transit who started the fire so they could get more people taking transit lol

[ravman]

i would blame Falcon, but i know he was in victoria trying, in vain, to defend his govt... but maybe this MIGHT lead to pillars being constructed on the Port Mann twin by the election as promised by the Falcon!

but this will be interesting to see how pple react... hopefully this is another excuse to get pple OUT OF THEIR CARS and on SKYTRAIN!!


so in simple language my point

TAKE TRANSIT!

[racc]

Now if only the libs hadn't been underfunding transit by $100 million a year for the past 8 years, we would have enough buses and trains to deal with the problem. The Evergreen Line would have been finished which would also help.

[hollywoodnorth]

new bridge needed anyone? jesus h christ eh.

I am hoping for a long delay so people understand the need for the Gateway plan even more

[Mac Write]

I hope RapidTransitBC runs 6-car Mark 1 and 4 car Mark II trains tomorrow.

[DKaz]

Modern reinforced concrete bridges aren't completely invincible against fires either, it just takes a lot more firepower to bring them down. Remember in Portland when the tanker caught on fire at the interchange and the flyover section collapsed?

[Whalleyboy]

i'm pretty sure everyone here knows that modern bridges arent invincible
its just for the sake of arguement that compare to modern patullo is a piece of crap

[ambaUp]

I took the Alex Fraser at around 4:30 today and you could see the increase in traffic, especially all the people on the exit from Nordel Way. It'll probably be brutal tomorrow. The lineup at the Queensborough bridge was backed up to where the 91 and 91a diverge.

Pattullo Bridge closed for four weeks

SURREY (NEWS1130) - The Pattullo bridge will be closed for at least four weeks after a massive fire damaged 60 feet of the span.

TransLink hopes commuters will double up, or take a bus. After several weeks of snow and rain, it's the last thing TransLink hoped to deal with.

Creosote is used on the wood components to preserve it, but it also burns very well. TransLink CEO Tom Prendergast says they knew there were issues with the span. "We'd identified this element of the bridge something we were going to address right away, to put the bridge in good condition for ten years before we replace it with a new bridge."

That design is 85% complete Transportation Minster Kevin Falcon says they're looking at options to use the bridge in the event of an emergency. "We have got potential temporary daily bridges that can be utilized over that structure that is burnt out right now that might help emergency vehicles get back and forth."

Police arrested one man at the scene but he's not considered a suspect. He was causing problems for firefighters.
The cause of the fire is still under investigation.

[CoryHolmes]

Ouch. This is really going to put the squeeze on the routes. I used to drive River Road through Annieville and Tilbury during the rush hours and I can just imagine what they'll be like from now on. But maybe someone will wisen up and use this as impetitous to get started on a new Pattullo Bridge.

[mr.x]

80,000 people use the bridge everyday....it'll be interesting to see what happens tomorrow.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by ambaUp

I took the Alex Fraser at around 4:30 today and you could see the increase in traffic, especially all the people on the exit from Nordel Way. It'll probably be brutal tomorrow. The lineup at the Queensborough bridge was backed up to where the 91 and 91a diverge.

Well, considering it took my parents over an hour to drive from Surrey to Port Moody on a Sunday afternoon (including almost 40 minutes to get from 108th Avenue to Highway 1), I can only imagine what it would be like during rush hour...

[racc]

People are creative and resourceful. They will figure out ways to get by. Have some faith.

[mr.x]

METRO VANCOUVER — Commuters crossing the Fraser River can expect longer line-ups and further delays after a suspicious fire Sunday shut down the Pattullo Bridge for at least a month, diverting its 80,000 daily users to other routes and onto public transit.

TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie urged commuters to leave earlier or later for work and consider carpooling and telecommuting, predicting overcrowded conditions on the Port Mann and Alex Fraser bridges and George Massey Tunnel, as well as long waits for buses and SkyTrains.

The bridge, which connects Surrey and New Westminster, serves about 20 per cent of the traffic capacity south of the Fraser. It will also be closed to pedestrians and cyclists.

The average traffic volume on the Port Mann Bridge is 127,000 cars a day, while the Alex Fraser Bridge sees 98,000 vehicles daily, said Dave Crebo, spokesman for the B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure.

“It’s going to cause significant headaches for a lot of commuters,” Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon said Sunday.

“This is going to be a big challenge. We need people to double up and share rides and do their bit to help out while TransLink deals with this situation.”

TransLink plans to start SkyTrain at 4:30 a.m. and put on four more trains between Scott Road and Waterfront stations to ease the pressure during rush hour. Bicycle access to SkyTrain is suspended due to the increased traffic. Police are also warning they will step up enforcement on HOV lanes.

Surrey firefighters were called to the Pattullo Bridge at about 3 a.m. Sunday after motorists reported seeing smoke and flames billowing up from an 18-metre span of wooden trestles supporting the south end of the crossing.

For most of Sunday, firefighters tended to the hot spots on the trestles, which were still emitting smoke eight hours after the fire was reported.

Surrey RCMP Staff Sgt. Bruce Anderson said arson is suspected but hasn’t been confirmed.

Hardie said investigators will look into the possibility that homeless people, who often take shelter against the cold under the bridge, may have lit candles to warm themselves, leading to the fire. TransLink had previously fenced off the area under the trestles, which are covered in creosote to protect the wood from rotting.

“One of the suspicions is that somebody started a fire to keep warm, and the flame engaged the creosote pilings,” Hardie said.

The span will be demolished in the next few days and replaced, but the work could take four to six weeks, Hardie said.

The wooden section that caught fire was expected to be replaced shortly by TransLink in order to keep the bridge maintained for the next 10 years while a new six-lane crossing is built to take its place. The project, which is in the design stages, is 85-per-cent complete.

TransLink CEO Tom Prendergast said TransLink will work around the clock to get the job done and will use money out of the contingency fund to pay for it. He estimated the cost of the repairs will be “millions of dollars,” but said the cost to commuters is much higher.

Transit police are supporting Surrey RCMP in the investigation of the fire, and providing security on both sides of the crossing, said Transit police chief Ward Clapham. Clapham’s forces have built barricades on both sides of the bridge.

B.C. Ambulance Service has added three vehicles to its fleet, stationed in Surrey, said spokeswoman Kristy Hillen.

Falcon said an air ambulance is on standby to take patients to New Westminster’s Royal Columbian hospital, a centre for trauma care, and there’s a possibility of using a portable pre-fabricated truss bridge to allow emergency services to go between Surrey and New Westminster.

He said the fire underscores the province’s need to replace its aging infrastructure.

But Bruce Ralston, New Democrat MLA for Surrey-Whalley, said the anticipated gridlock signals that the Liberal government doesn’t consider alternative forms of transit a priority.

“This illustrates how far we’ve fallen behind south of the Fraser, and how little attention there are to transportation alternatives.”

Measuring 1,221 metres, or 4,006 feet, the Pattullo was completed in 1937.

ksinoski@vancouversun.com

[deasine]

Oh my we have to replace the wooden section? And we are building another one soon? =O

[nname]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

TransLink plans to start SkyTrain at 4:30 a.m. and put on four more trains between Scott Road and Waterfront stations to ease the pressure during rush hour.

I wonder how are they going to get 4 more trains into service during AM peak. They either have to put at least 208 out of the 210 available cars into service (for at least a month straight) or turn some of the 4-cars MKII trains into 2-cars.

[Metro-One]

But Bruce Ralston, New Democrat MLA for Surrey-Whalley, said the anticipated gridlock signals that the Liberal government doesn’t consider alternative forms of transit a priority.

How would alternative forms help here? If buses were beefed up they would still have to use the same bridges, also is there not a skytrain bridge right beside this one (which makes this comment even more silly)? Maybe the problem is a lack of infrastructure spending over the past 20/30 years in general, both rail and road I should note that finally we are getting some new crossings over the Fraser (Golden Ears/Canada Line) but many more are still needed.

[Distill3d]

so, here is how i see what its going to happen:

in a week, an engineer is going to come out and say "there's no possible way we can safely brace this bridge to handle the traffic load it has. we're going to have to build a new bridge within 5 years."

and then what will happen is the Pattullo will be closed indefinitely pending further investigation of the matter. so, we'll say in April or May (just in time for the election) someone is going to leak renderings of the new bridge to the public, thus pushing the Liberals over the edge and winning the election.

ground work on a new Pattullo Bridge will begin shortly after the Olympics are over with a scheduled completion date of 2012. in the mean time the old bridge will be stripped of its paint and torn down.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

How would alternative forms help here? If buses were beefed up they would still have to use the same bridges, also is there not a skytrain bridge right beside this one (which makes this comment even more silly)?

I think she meant a commuter-type train like West Coast Express. I wonder if it is possible to "borrow" a train from WCE and run some sort of shuttle service between a temporary station near Scott Road and somewhere in New Westminster.

[Metro-One]

Wagers?

[racc]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

How would alternative forms help here? If buses were beefed up they would still have to use the same bridges, also is there not a skytrain bridge right beside this one (which makes this comment even more silly)? Maybe the problem is a lack of infrastructure spending over the past 20/30 years in general, both rail and road I should note that finally we are getting some new crossings over the Fraser (Golden Ears/Canada Line) but many more are still needed.

Well for one thing, more SkyTrain cars would help. Falcon, Campbell and the Liberals have been underfunding transit by $100 million per year for the last 8 years. We are 500 buses short which would help people get to SkyTrain.

Falcon refused to build the queue jumper lane on Highway 1 so buses could get over the Port Mann. This was planned to be finished by now. He refused to do it because he was worried that it would work and blow his case for expanding the Highway.

Oh yeah, the Evergreen Line should have been finished as well. People could be using the SkyTrain to get over the river and then transfer to the Evergreen Line so they wouldn't have to drive over the bridge.

This mess falls clearly on Falcon and Campbell's feet. They are forcing people to drive because they haven't funding transit.