CHICAGO | General Developments

[denizen467]

Let's not miss the lede here: This location in LA is so out of the way from the major tourist areas that it's ridiculously inferior to the 2nd-choice, 3rd-choice, etc. sites offered in Chicago. Not to mention that it will get lost among the other arts and pop culture attractions throughout LA that are on visitors' lists. Not sure LA visitors are going to actually go out of their way just to see the real, actual Darth Vader mask, or the real, actual, Ten Commandments tablets, er, not those, but the real, actual, fake hollywood movie prop Ten Commandments tablets, when there are tons of studio tours offering real movie sets, etc.

Being 200 yards west of Soldier Field (and the lake), for example, would have been much more prominent than being 2 miles southwest of LA Live / Staples Center / downtown LA, and across a couple expressways.

The article doesn't say anything about synergy with the USC film school, but I imagine that's one silver lining. Eventually maybe Exposition Park will gain some critical mass, but even then it'll never be as big a destination as the upcoming Inglewood "Entertainment District at Hollywood Park" with its most-expensive-ever (and architectually unique) NFL stadium. I realize this is supposed to be an art venue and not an entertainment venue, but it was clear Lucas wanted to be in a high traffic area -- and after all, what's the point of spending a billion on curvy imported architecture and then not siting it somewhere where the greatest number of people will be likely to lay eyes on the structure.

[ithakas]

Originally Posted by denizen467

The article doesn't say anything about synergy with the USC film school, but I imagine that's one silver lining. Eventually maybe Exposition Park will gain some critical mass, but even then it'll never be as big a destination as the upcoming Inglewood "Entertainment District at Hollywood Park" with its most-expensive-ever (and architectually unique) NFL stadium. I realize this is supposed to be an art venue and not an entertainment venue, but it was clear Lucas wanted to be in a high traffic area -- and after all, what's the point of spending a billion on curvy imported architecture and then not siting it somewhere where the greatest number of people will be likely to lay eyes on the structure.

Eh, I think you're underestimating Exposition Park. It's not in the place to be in LA, but I don't know that there is just one – there's several major nodes/clusters of museums.

Along with The Broad/MOCA/Walt Disney Concert Hall cluster downtown and the LACMA/La Brea/Automobile Museum further west, Exposition Park already has three museums, if you're not counting USC's art museum across the street. Lucas is also very tied to the school's cinema school (I spent a summer there right before a major donation on his behalf was going to replace all the film cameras with new digital equipment), which I'm sure was a big plus for him.

[dropdeaded209]

I shot a documentary in Chicago over the summer and got some interesting opinions on the Lucas Museum saga from Stanley Tigerman, Helmut Jahn and Gov. Thompson--Tigerman thought it was a great idea for a "vapid lakefront" as he called it, Jahn thought they should put it in McCormick, and Thompson was very surprised the deal didn't go through...

[denizen467]

^ Off topic but, um, are you just going to talk about this documentary or are you going to share it with us?

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Let's not miss the lede here: This location in LA is so out of the way from the major tourist areas that it's ridiculously inferior to the 2nd-choice, 3rd-choice, etc. sites offered in Chicago.

Chicago offered 2nd and 3rd choice sites? I must have missed that.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Let's not miss the lede here: This location in LA is so out of the way from the major tourist areas that it's ridiculously inferior to the 2nd-choice, 3rd-choice, etc. sites offered in Chicago. Not to mention that it will get lost among the other arts and pop culture attractions throughout LA that are on visitors' lists. Not sure LA visitors are going to actually go out of their way just to see the real, actual Darth Vader mask, or the real, actual, Ten Commandments tablets, er, not those, but the real, actual, fake hollywood movie prop Ten Commandments tablets, when there are tons of studio tours offering real movie sets, etc.

Being 200 yards west of Soldier Field (and the lake), for example, would have been much more prominent than being 2 miles southwest of LA Live / Staples Center / downtown LA, and across a couple expressways.

The article doesn't say anything about synergy with the USC film school, but I imagine that's one silver lining. Eventually maybe Exposition Park will gain some critical mass, but even then it'll never be as big a destination as the upcoming Inglewood "Entertainment District at Hollywood Park" with its most-expensive-ever (and architectually unique) NFL stadium. I realize this is supposed to be an art venue and not an entertainment venue, but it was clear Lucas wanted to be in a high traffic area -- and after all, what's the point of spending a billion on curvy imported architecture and then not siting it somewhere where the greatest number of people will be likely to lay eyes on the structure.

Hold up...

Exposition Park is home to the following:

LA Swimming Stadium
LA Coliseum
Natural History Museum
California Science Center
California African American Museum
IMAX Theater
The Endeavor Space Shuttle
Banc of California Stadium
Rose Garden

Not to mention that college across the street. It's about 2 miles south of DTLA with 2 Metro stops. Out of the way it isn't.

[KWILLSKYLINE]

Friends of Parks should be so ashamed of themselves for ruining this for Chicago. They should all be forced to move to Wichita, Kansas and lick their own butt cracks for the rest of thier lives. Shame on them and their rediculous antics.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by emathias

So the billboard in front of 676 N Lasalle is gone now, and so is the one on the SE corner of Huron and Wells. But the one on the NE corner of Erie and Wells is still up. You'd think they'd have taken that down, too. i wonder why they didn't.

Originally Posted by Hayward

I've dealt with billboard registrations before and maybe it's a matter getting the final approval from all parties? These billboards can switch hands and then there's issues of leases, easements and permits. Paperwork process can be difficult.

This morning crews are out taking down the billboard on the NE corner of Erie/Wells. Bye-bye billboards, hoping for a hello to construction crews on all corners of the block showing up soon. If that condo building for the body shop managed to sell quickly enough we could have nearly an entire block under construction, with three different developers, at the same time. That would be amazing, even if I did have to put up with construction crews for the next two years right after having to put up with 707 N Wells and Exhibit under construction for years already.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by BrandonJXN

It's about 2 miles south of DTLA with 2 Metro stops. Out of the way it isn't.

Reread my comment comparing 2 miles in LA with 200 yards in Chicago. A site just across Lake Shore Drive from the Soldier Field parking lot was among the alternatives contemplated. Lucas wasn't interested in anything diverging from his sacred waterside site. My only point about Exposition Park is that Lucas demanded the absolute pinnacle of sites in Chicago, without even a 200 yard shift being acceptable; Exposition Park ain't the pinnacle in LA, nice as it is.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Reread my comment comparing 2 miles in LA with 200 yards in Chicago. A site just across Lake Shore Drive from the Soldier Field parking lot was among the alternatives contemplated. Lucas wasn't interested in anything diverging from his sacred waterside site. My only point about Exposition Park is that Lucas demanded the absolute pinnacle of sites in Chicago, without even a 200 yard shift being acceptable; Exposition Park ain't the pinnacle in LA, nice as it is.

That's why LA has more than one pinnacle. Bunker Hill has MoCa, Disney Hall, The Broad, the underrated Colburn School for the Preforming Arts. Expo Park has those that I already listed. The Ghetty is on the west side. UCLA has the Hammer Museum. Wilshire Blvd has the La Brea Tar Pits, which is next to the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County which is down the street from the Petersen Automotive Museum across the street from the LA County Museum of Art which is down the way of the LA Museum of the Holocaust.

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Let's not miss the lede here: This location in LA is so out of the way from the major tourist areas that it's ridiculously inferior to the 2nd-choice, 3rd-choice, etc. sites offered in Chicago. Not to mention that it will get lost among the other arts and pop culture attractions throughout LA that are on visitors' lists. Not sure LA visitors are going to actually go out of their way just to see the real, actual Darth Vader mask, or the real, actual, Ten Commandments tablets, er, not those, but the real, actual, fake hollywood movie prop Ten Commandments tablets, when there are tons of studio tours offering real movie sets, etc.

Being 200 yards west of Soldier Field (and the lake), for example, would have been much more prominent than being 2 miles southwest of LA Live / Staples Center / downtown LA, and across a couple expressways.

The article doesn't say anything about synergy with the USC film school, but I imagine that's one silver lining. Eventually maybe Exposition Park will gain some critical mass, but even then it'll never be as big a destination as the upcoming Inglewood "Entertainment District at Hollywood Park" with its most-expensive-ever (and architectually unique) NFL stadium. I realize this is supposed to be an art venue and not an entertainment venue, but it was clear Lucas wanted to be in a high traffic area -- and after all, what's the point of spending a billion on curvy imported architecture and then not siting it somewhere where the greatest number of people will be likely to lay eyes on the structure.

Yes, let's keep convincing ourselves that Chicago didn't really miss out on anything. Not. At. All.

[ithakas]

I'm happy it went to LA over SF though, and I think the location is a great fit. Will be interesting to see how USC Cinematic Arts and the Lucas Museum's technology plans intermingle.

In the interest of not rehashing the lakefront debate, I wonder where others think a third museum node could emerge in Chicago? Hyde Park has a pretty clear second, but I wonder if there's any area in the city that seems a natural fit for more cityscape-integrated museums given economic development, land availability, transit access, etc.?

I could see the eastern half of the Kinzie Corridor becoming one if the centralized PMDs go by the wayside, particularly since there's quite a bit of art world activity further west on Carroll and Hubbard (Richard Gray just announced they're opening a second branch at 2044 W. Carroll, for example).

[Mikemak27]

42 New market rate, single family homes are coming to Bronzeville with the city selling lots to developers for $1. They will be priced from $440k to $589k. Talk about hitting the jackpot for these developers.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/reale...in-bronzeville

[the urban politician]

^ Source?

[JK47]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Reread my comment comparing 2 miles in LA with 200 yards in Chicago. A site just across Lake Shore Drive from the Soldier Field parking lot was among the alternatives contemplated. Lucas wasn't interested in anything diverging from his sacred waterside site. My only point about Exposition Park is that Lucas demanded the absolute pinnacle of sites in Chicago, without even a 200 yard shift being acceptable; Exposition Park ain't the pinnacle in LA, nice as it is.

It's really not that hard to understand. In the case of Chicago, Lucas had no other reason to prefer an alternative site. Such sites like the old Reese site offered nothing to him personally...nothing to attract his attention. The Los Angeles site in Expo park is in close proximity with a school that he is both personally attached to and is thematically related to his museum project. Simply put, we didn't give him a reason to want to consider an alternative sit in Chicago.

Proposing alternatives that work for us doesn't do much if they don't also work for him.

[denizen467]

^ Exactly; his personal connection came into play; he was more willing to compromise on his original criteria owing to that.

Originally Posted by BrandonJXN

That's why LA has more than one pinnacle.

By that logic, Chicago does too. Yet Lucas didn't think so.

Originally Posted by sentinel

Yes, let's keep convincing ourselves that Chicago didn't really miss out on anything. Not. At. All.

Gross misinterpretation of my comment. Within LA, movie paraphernelia is not so big a draw, or at least when it's in a limited amount in a location far away from other hollywood locations. People are more interested in studio tours, or the Walk of Fame; adjacency to that part of town would have made sense. That's the only criticism I made, and that represents only a portion of the museum's program. On the other hand in Chicago, this museum of course would have been a very big draw. Though it's true I personally find an exhibit on stage props incredibly dull, it's unquestionable I would have loved to have this museum since it would have been a public hit, the paintings and other art would have been very good, the architecture would have been interesting, etc.

[XIII]

Originally Posted by JK47

It's really not that hard to understand. In the case of Chicago, Lucas had no other reason to prefer an alternative site. Such sites like the old Reese site offered nothing to him personally...nothing to attract his attention. The Los Angeles site in Expo park is in close proximity with a school that he is both personally attached to and is thematically related to his museum project. Simply put, we didn't give him a reason to want to consider an alternative sit in Chicago.

Proposing alternatives that work for us doesn't do much if they don't also work for him.

This was definitely a $1bn missed opportunity and self-inflicted loss. To be fair, the city did try with the alternate McCormick offering. The only thing they could have done differently, in my opinion, is to offer to put it in Jackson Park with the "other" museum cluster. That seems like it would be a much bigger sacrifice than a parking lot next to soldier field, though.

It was pretty clear that FotPL was more interested in trying to raise the political profile of their chair and protect the views of a handful of donors rather than actually working with the city to come up with a win-win solution. What a shameful result for Chicago.

[denizen467]

There've been some interesting changes in retail environment lately, maybe too small to get picked up in local articles.

Northwestern Memorial Hospital has been expanding its retail (mainly dining) concourse across its main twin tower medical building and its new 259 E Erie building. It's been an impressive improvement, but it seems to have produced some casualties. The long operating Panera along Fairbanks just shuttered two weeks ago. And the Cosi at Fairbanks & Ontario just shuttered too. So a skybridge-based food mall (which is still growing further) is expanding at the expense, effectively, of street-level retail. It's like a mini Minneapolis effect, where a giant portion of downtown foot traffic hovers at the skybridge level and avoids street level. Worse, it doesn't bode so well for all the empty storefronts around Streeterville.

Panera actually is shrinking left and right in Chicago. They shuttered Diversey in the last couple years, and they just abandoned their Clybourn restaurant last month. Also along that stretch of Clybourn, Moe's just closed too, although I think most people won't miss that one.

I like Panera as a great go-to for any daypart, but I view their retreat as a good sign that we have higher quality offerings (let's say, Sweetgreen) emerging everywhere around the city, and I never mind when a cookie cutter chain gets pared back. Just like I'm proud of the rapidly disappearing McDonald's downtown, when a couple decades ago they littered the landscape like bank branches now do.

But the biggest change in retail complexion lately is the explosion of mattress stores like kudzu. Are people sleeping more or something?

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by denizen467

There've been some interesting changes in retail environment lately, maybe too small to get picked up in local articles.

Northwestern Memorial Hospital has been expanding its retail (mainly dining) concourse across its main twin tower medical building and its new 259 E Erie building. It's been an impressive improvement, but it seems to have produced some casualties. The long operating Panera along Fairbanks just shuttered two weeks ago. And the Cosi at Fairbanks & Ontario just shuttered too. So a skybridge-based food mall (which is still growing further) is expanding at the expense, effectively, of street-level retail. It's like a mini Minneapolis effect, where a giant portion of downtown foot traffic hovers at the skybridge level and avoids street level. Worse, it doesn't bode so well for all the empty storefronts around Streeterville.

Panera actually is shrinking left and right in Chicago. They shuttered Diversey in the last couple years, and they just abandoned their Clybourn restaurant last month. Also along that stretch of Clybourn, Moe's just closed too, although I think most people won't miss that one.

I like Panera as a great go-to for any daypart, but I view their retreat as a good sign that we have higher quality offerings (let's say, Sweetgreen) emerging everywhere around the city, and I never mind when a cookie cutter chain gets pared back. Just like I'm proud of the rapidly disappearing McDonald's downtown, when a couple decades ago they littered the landscape like bank branches now do.

But the biggest change in retail complexion lately is the explosion of mattress stores like kudzu. Are people sleeping more or something?

Cosi is in bankruptcy and has been closing locations around the country, which isn't surprising to me at all. Their food is barely mediocre and very expensive for what you get.

It seems to me Panera quality has really gone down over the last few years. I used to enjoy it, but it seems pretty bad now.

I don't understand the mattress store thing at all.

[emathias]

There have always been a lot of mattress stores. Plus, if all this new residential means a lot of people are moving, many people will get a new mattress as part of a move because, well, can be easier than moving one. The first two mattresses I bought, I coordinated with moves. Or perhaps it's a sign of people moving out of their parents' place or moving to the city from out of state. Pure conjecture, of course.