Provo MSA Development Thread

[SLC Projects]

Guys, I did say BESIDES the office park at Thankgiving Point. I agree that area was a waste.

[Highrise_Mike]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Why do you say that TDR's could be problematic in the future? I was close to presenting a full TDR program in Payson prior to getting laid off. I was going to include several areas that were agricultural uses currently outside the city boundaries but within the Annexation Policy Plan boundary, as an incentive to annex into Payson as opposed to staying in the county or annexing into neighboring cities.

I think TDR are a critical component to a more sustainable future here in Utah. When I was researching TDR's I was appalled that only two cities in all of Utah had a TDR ordinance at the time, WVC and Mapelton, and only Mapleton had actually designated any sending and receiving areas.

I totally agree with you on the benefits of TRD and we have looked into an ordinance for Lehi. The reason I would say it could be problematic is more of a property rights issue. Some land owners may feel they have the right to develop their own property even if a TRD is imposed on the property. Who is to say 100 years down the road the future City Council couldnt approve a project on a property where the development rights were transferred. I have seen agreements made with developers and the City change and things get approved that didnt follow an agreement or area plan. I think if there is a way to do a TRD on a property and 100% ensure that it doesnt get developed in the future, then I am all for it. Dont get me wrong, Im not a downer on TRD! Im also not as well educated on it as you and I could be wrong with these concerns. I think preserving agricultural land is important and also allowing clustering of densities so the city is more compact and walkable. I know its different but the urban growth boundary in Portland has been effective in preventing further sprawl but there has been a lot of fight back there from the land owners which has made it very controversial.

Did you used to work as a planner for Payson?

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Highrise_Mike

I totally agree with you on the benefits of TRD and we have looked into an ordinance for Lehi. The reason I would say it could be problematic is more of a property rights issue. Some land owners may feel they have the right to develop their own property even if a TRD is imposed on the property. Who is to say 100 years down the road the future City Council couldnt approve a project on a property where the development rights were transferred. I have seen agreements made with developers and the City change and things get approved that didnt follow an agreement or area plan. I think if there is a way to do a TRD on a property and 100% ensure that it doesnt get developed in the future, then I am all for it. Dont get me wrong, Im not a downer on TRD! Im also not as well educated on it as you and I could be wrong with these concerns. I think preserving agricultural land is important and also allowing clustering of densities so the city is more compact and walkable. I know its different but the urban growth boundary in Portland has been effective in preventing further sprawl but there has been a lot of fight back there from the land owners which has made it very controversial.

Did you used to work as a planner for Payson?

Yes I did, for a year and a half until the economy got the best of the city's budget.

TDR's are a bit complicated, but I will do my best to explain it in a condensed version.

Areas that a city wouldn't mind staying agricultural they can designate as sending sites, and areas that they to possibly be more dense they designate as receiving sites. Both areas are still planned as if both would develop in a typical way, if they were to develop without using any TDR. Let's say the sending site, if developed would be 1/2 acre lots and the receiving site is zoned 1/4 acre lots.

The sending site property owner doesn't have to stay agricultural, but the TDR allows them a way to get the money they would have received if they did develop. If they choose to stay agricultural they can sell off all of their development rights or a portion of them, developing some of their property and leaving some as agricultural. They of course have to find an interested developer that wants to increase the densities in the 1/4 acre receiving site areas.

If the land owner does sell their development rights and the receiving site now becomes 1/8 acres. There are no longer development rights to that agricultural land. All land includes a bundle of rights, water, air, mineral, and development (some cites and states are different with water, and mineral, but for the most part that is what is attached to all property) The TDR allows the development rights for the property to be severed and sold and attached to another piece of property. So even if a future City Council decided that they wanted that agricultural area to be developed that property no longer has development rights attached to it, and thus CANNOT be developed.

There is an orchard north of Payson (Allred Orchads) and a horse ranch south of Payson (Taylor Ranch) that the Planning Department, Planning Commission and City Council were ready to designate as TDR sending areas, if those property owners were willing to annex into Payson City. There were a few areas under consideration for designation as TDR receiving sites, particularly the future Front Runner Station Area.

I think this is a very valuable tool a city has to allow for growth while still maintaining some of it's agricultural nature. It also allows property owner to cash in on the value of development on their land while still being able to leave it as agricultural. In Utah County, a land owner can request their land be put into Greenbelt status, which will allow them to retain lower property taxes, so they can continue to farm but not have to pay the high taxes associated with nearby development.

Mapleton used TDR's to preserve property on it's high benches. Those were the sending sites and in town were the receiving sites. I believe that a transaction has occurred in Mapleton, and now that area in the foothills will be preserved as open space, and the land owner still got the value as if it had been developed.

There you go everybody a brief lesson on how TDR's work. Yes that was the condensed version. lol

[Highrise_Mike]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Yes I did, for a year and a half until the economy got the best of the city's budget.

TDR's are a bit complicated, but I will do my best to explain it in a condensed version.

Areas that a city wouldn't mind staying agricultural they can designate as sending sites, and areas that they to possibly be more dense they designate as receiving sites. Both areas are still planned as if both would develop in a typical way, if they were to develop without using any TDR. Let's say the sending site, if developed would be 1/2 acre lots and the receiving site is zoned 1/4 acre lots.

The sending site property owner doesn't have to stay agricultural, but the TDR allows them a way to get the money they would have received if they did develop. If they choose to stay agricultural they can sell off all of their development rights or a portion of them, developing some of their property and leaving some as agricultural. They of course have to find an interested developer that wants to increase the densities in the 1/4 acre receiving site areas.

If the land owner does sell their development rights and the receiving site now becomes 1/8 acres. There are no longer development rights to that agricultural land. All land includes a bundle of rights, water, air, mineral, and development (some cites and states are different with water, and mineral, but for the most part that is what is attached to all property) The TDR allows the development rights for the property to be severed and sold and attached to another piece of property. So even if a future City Council decided that they wanted that agricultural area to be developed that property no longer has development rights attached to it, and thus CANNOT be developed.

There is an orchard north of Payson (Allred Orchads) and a horse ranch south of Payson (Taylor Ranch) that the Planning Department, Planning Commission and City Council were ready to designate as TDR sending areas, if those property owners were willing to annex into Payson City. There were a few areas under consideration for designation as TDR receiving sites, particularly the future Front Runner Station Area.

I think this is a very valuable tool a city has to allow for growth while still maintaining some of it's agricultural nature. It also allows property owner to cash in on the value of development on their land while still being able to leave it as agricultural. In Utah County, a land owner can request their land be put into Greenbelt status, which will allow them to retain lower property taxes, so they can continue to farm but not have to pay the high taxes associated with nearby development.

Mapleton used TDR's to preserve property on it's high benches. Those were the sending sites and in town were the receiving sites. I believe that a transaction has occurred in Mapleton, and now that area in the foothills will be preserved as open space, and the land owner still got the value as if it had been developed.

There you go everybody a brief lesson on how TDR's work. Yes that was the condensed version. lol

Thanks for sharing! It sounds like only when interested land owners choose to sell their development rights to a developer would this ever take place. That makes a lot more sense than forcing some properties to be sending sites. It makes sense to that in Payson the orchards could be sending sites since they would continue their agricultural use without the development rights.

Sorry to keep asking questions, but when a property sells it's development rights, do they maintain their water rights or would they have to come up with additional water shares because they sold their existing shares with the development rights? In a situation where some development rights are transferred, the City would have to make sure they have water shares dedicated for the receiving site and the sending site would need some shares to continue an agricultural use.

Anyway I guess my questions might be better asked off of the forum since this is about development and skyscrapers! At whatever point Lehi looks into adopting a TDR ordinance, I may have to refer to you for some additional questions.

[Wasatch_One]

...rendering of the new Vivint Solar (company soon to be renamed as part of their IPO) HQ south of the Thanksgiving Pt Megaplex (West side of I-15). Had solid earnings yesterday(s) and their stock is up like 21% today alone...

[SLC Projects]

Are these two the same development with two different renderings or two different developments? Those are both south of TGP.

[Wasatch_One]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Are these two the same development with two different renderings or two different developments? Those are both south of TGP.

Im wondering if the one stamped with Lehi City's approval is the most up to date, if in fact that is the new Vivint Solar rendering as well.

[Deek1978]

Something is being built in Spanish Fork, west of the new Nebo Credit Union.... between Nebo CU and Costco's gas station....

Tygr, a little help? Can I find this out on www.spanishfork.org?

*edit* okay, i just did a little exploring and it looks like it's just more stores for lease...

[Highrise_Mike]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Are these two the same development with two different renderings or two different developments? Those are both south of TGP.

These are actually two different projects located within the same area. The Vivnt Solar phase one is already under construction with much of the foundation work complete. The rendering with the Lehi stamp on it is another building part of the overall Thanksgiving Station project. It was just approved last Thursday and the developer is looking to start construction within the next few weeks. In the area there are 5 office buildings planned with some future retail pads as well. There are a couple parking structures proposed for these buildings but in my opinion there is still too much surface parking. Also I still wish we could get rid of the 5 floor height limit in Thanksgiving Point.

[delts145]

I'm really liking the look of this design and the materials used. Great use of glass, for taking in those spectacular surrounding mountain views. I would like to see a design like this added to Salt Lake's CBD, with a lot more height of course.

[tygr]

Originally Posted by Deek1978

Something is being built in Spanish Fork, west of the new Nebo Credit Union.... between Nebo CU and Costco's gas station....

Tygr, a little help? Can I find this out on www.spanishfork.org?

*edit* okay, i just did a little exploring and it looks like it's just more stores for lease...

From what I understand, it is a three or four space pad. T-Mobile is confirmed and Massage Envy is possible, but nothing else. Still waiting for some nice sit down restaurants.

Last I heard, Cinemark will break ground by early April with an open date of November 1. They will be north west of Walmart, south west of the retention pond by SAPA and will face towards US-6.

JoAnn's opened today and it looks like there's already activity at their old building on Main St.

I've also seen mention in the Springville City minutes that Harbor Freight will be opening in Spanish Fork. Springville is in an absolute panic over all of SF's new development.

[delts145]

I guess Springville has good reason to be concerned, but it was pretty predictable that Spanish Fork would become the hub for Southern Utah County. I imagine with Spanish Fork finally developing a lot more retail options, there won't be the need for shoppers in Spanish Fork, Payson and surrounding communities to travel to Springville anymore. Provo/Orem would be the next alternative for the bigger city shopping options.

[UncleBucket]

Hey everyone!

I've been checking out this blog pretty regularly for a couple years, but I finally created a profile. I've driven around the new development in Vineyard recently and can't believe how many apartments and townhouses have gone up already. I'm excited for the new movie theater too, but was wondering if anyone has any information on any retail or restaurants going in? Just seems like a big theater in the middle of a giant sea of housing.

If anyone has any details, I'd love to hear more about the plans for this area. I'd also love to hear people's thoughts on this area.

Thanks!

[Future Mayor]

Highrise Mike:

I am curious to know what connectivity plans this new Thanksgiving Point Station development has to the actual Thankgiving Point Station. Is connectivity even an option, or is it just a nice play on words using that name? If it is an option is the connectivity a major part of the overall layout or is a simply a minor afterthought, like oh hey here's a standard weaving 3' sidewalk that eventually leads to the Station?


Uncle Bucket:

Welcome to the forum. The overall plan for vineyard is to have a pretty major commercial/retail node in the same area as the theaters. They will eventually come, but the rooftops have to be in place first before the retail. Things like a theater can attract from a little further out and can stand along for a while, but other types of retail and restaurants need a certain amount of rooftops within a certain distance before they will open their doors.

I don't know if you're familiar with the View 72 area in Midvale, but it developed in a similar way. Hundreds of apartments, condos and home were built first, then the retail started to come in, some office was then added, and some additional retail come to the area.

As for time frame, I would guess that once 3-4 apartments of housing developments are completed and several others are either in the works or announced that the retail will start to fill in around the movie theater.

[Highrise_Mike]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Highrise Mike:

I am curious to know what connectivity plans this new Thanksgiving Point Station development has to the actual Thankgiving Point Station. Is connectivity even an option, or is it just a nice play on words using that name? If it is an option is the connectivity a major part of the overall layout or is a simply a minor afterthought, like oh hey here's a standard weaving 3' sidewalk that eventually leads to the Station?


Uncle Bucket:

Welcome to the forum. The overall plan for vineyard is to have a pretty major commercial/retail node in the same area as the theaters. They will eventually come, but the rooftops have to be in place first before the retail. Things like a theater can attract from a little further out and can stand along for a while, but other types of retail and restaurants need a certain amount of rooftops within a certain distance before they will open their doors.

I don't know if you're familiar with the View 72 area in Midvale, but it developed in a similar way. Hundreds of apartments, condos and home were built first, then the retail started to come in, some office was then added, and some additional retail come to the area.

As for time frame, I would guess that once 3-4 apartments of housing developments are completed and several others are either in the works or announced that the retail will start to fill in around the movie theater.

Essentially, the developer is just using a play on words and calling the overall development Thanksgiving Station since is kind of near the FR station. I am pleased to say though that the 5 foot sidewalks are straight for this development with no meandering! As far as connecting to the Front Runner station, the City requires pedestrian circulation within the development with connections to the surrounding streets. Also there is already an existing buffered bike lane that runs up to the station along Ashton Blvd. This site is located almost a mile in walking distance from the station platform which is outside of the typical 1/4 to 1/2 mile walking radius, but I think biking over to this project from the station would be easy. We have had some contact with a bike share company which could help if there were bike share stations at the FR station and places like Adobe, Thanksgiving Park, and some other locations.

Another thing I want to share, is the potential on the property which is currently the Real Salt Lake practice field across the street from the FR station. There have been a couple of groups that have thrown around the TOD idea of some higher density housing with some possible ground office or retail space. A TOD doesn't work too well with just residential uses, but there is plenty of existing commercial space. I would definitely like to see some higher density residential and it would provide some diversity of uses in the area. The area is not the most walkable but a core of housing and more retail/restaurant uses could really help the station.

[Highrise_Mike]

Here is a Lehi update. I can't say I covered all the projects, but this covers a few of them.

This is the UCCU office building - it is at 6 above ground floors with one more to go although the parapet is quite tall to screen the mechanical penthouse.




Here is the TSTAT 1 building with the concrete foundation work coming along. Notice in the background the newest addition of large electronic signs along I-15 for the new hospital.


This is the new hospital which is expected to open this spring.


This is the Perry 7 story office building. In the second picture, it shows how it will look from I-15. The 1st floor is hidden but construction is now to the 2nd floor.




This is the Porsche/Audi dealer, which was supposed to be open in February. Clearly not quite there yet


This is the nearly complete Mountain Pointe Office Plaza on Maple Loop.


Last for now is the Hyatt Place hotel across from the Outlets.


This is all for now, but I'm sure there will be more to come!

[i-215]

New Outback Steakhouse at Univ. Parkway and Orem State Street is now open. The old mini-mall one was demolished this morning. I don't have any Orem City Council connections, so I don't know if the property owner has renovation plans, as most of that shopping center is now empty.

[Wasatch_One]

Originally Posted by i-215

New Outback Steakhouse at Univ. Parkway and Orem State Street is now open. The old mini-mall one was demolished this morning. I don't have any Orem City Council connections, so I don't know if the property owner has renovation plans, as most of that shopping center is now empty.

I believe that Pier 1 Imports is moving into the old Outback location and Nordstrom Rack is taking over the old Sears Outlet and combining spaces with the existing Pier 1 Imports location.

[SLC Projects]

Traverse Heights
http://cbcadvisors.com/pmail/fugal/t...17%20Flyer.pdf

4-6 story office building/s

[javiniscool]

At University Place formerly known as University Mall the new anchor RC Willey has opened their store. It's the second largest and is really nice. This is just part of work going on there . Definitely good to see something in the place of Nordstrom and get more foot traffic in the mall. I heard not sure but that Ashley furniture would be taking over the old location on univ. pkwy and main. Will be really interesting seeing how that area of Orem increases in density and how it will look as a mix use area over time .